Anyone with problems Hamann Parts?
10-10-2006, 05:01 AM
#31
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My Ride: 2005 525i : Alpine White, Steptronic, Black Interior with Amethyst Leather & Popular Grain Brown, 17" 122-Style Rims, Adaptive Bi-Xenon Headlights, Auto Dimming & Folding Mirrors, Advanced A/C, Sports Steering Wheel, Electrically Adjustable Steering Column, Extended Lighting Package, PDC, Sliding Armrest, Bus Navi, Hi-Fi Sound System (MP3 DVDs), CD Changer, Rear Sunshades..
MODS:M-tech front bumper, Painted Grill, Installed Aux-In, Garage Door Opener (Overhead Compartement), ///M Steering wheel, Wood hand brake trim, Wood gear-shift lever. 35% Tint all around..
Got, ACS Roof Spoiler, but not installed..
to be honest..i think fitment and paint perfection is the job of the workshop. im sure that all original parts of high-end tuners fit perfectly... but if you go to a bad workshop its not gonna fit right..
i understand ur anger if the the part was bad, but i also understand that HAMMAN contacted you and asked...
means they care..
i understand ur anger if the the part was bad, but i also understand that HAMMAN contacted you and asked...
means they care..
10-10-2006, 05:07 AM
#32
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My Ride: 2007 E60 M5
Originally Posted by madoon' post='343379' date='Oct 10 2006, 10:01 AM
to be honest..i think fitment and paint perfection is the job of the workshop. im sure that all original parts of high-end tuners fit perfectly... but if you go to a bad workshop its not gonna fit right..
i understand ur anger if the the part was bad, but i also understand that HAMMAN contacted you and asked...
means they care..
i understand ur anger if the the part was bad, but i also understand that HAMMAN contacted you and asked...
means they care..
10-10-2006, 05:11 AM
#33
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Guys, that heat lamps are dangerous for fiber parts. It's better to let primer dry for at least 24 hours and then paint the parts. Each time I have use those lamps dry the primer, then I always had finish troubles on the paint, which they appeared three - four months later.
10-10-2006, 05:19 AM
#34
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My Ride: MY RIDE is DA real .-) HAMANN 5 aka BLACK MAMBA born on 16/06/2005/delivered on 05/08/2005 as following:
530dA (steptronic), Black II (JET), leather Dakota auburn black, mapple trim, head-up display, dynamic drive, active steering, adaptive xenon headlights (auto levelling) with headlight washers, alarm, comfort seats with massage function, advanced A/C, big compartment armrest, aux-in, MP3, Logic 7, Radio PRO, CD in-dash+cd changer, power rear sunshades, rear airbags, park distance control, auto dimming folding mirrors, smoking package, shiny shadow line (individual), fold down rear seats, ski bag, sport suspension, run flats on �116-style� rims (Good Year NCT5+), cup holders, debadged, fire extinguishers, additional permanent power outlet, BMW coat hanger, trunk release button (installed by Hobi), GPS tracking device and a big thx 2 Iceman.
Mods done:
� Authentic HAMANN FRONT APRON Including ellipsoid fog lights Item-No.: 10 060 110
� Authentic HAMANN REAR SPOILER Item-No.: 10 060 130,
� Authentic HAMANN HAMANN ALUMINIUM PEDALS For cars with manual gearbox Item-No.: 80 099 100 81,00 For cars with automatic transmission Item-No.: 80 099 120
� Authentic HAMANN FOOT REST In aluminium For left-hand drive vehicles Item No. : 80 099 122
� Authentic HAMANN HAND-BRAKE LEVER In aluminium For left- and right-hand drive cars Item No. : 80 099 216
� Authentic HAMANN Idrive of alu (sorry this is the only one in the World) but you can have it in carbon fiber ,
� Authentic HAMANN EXCLUSIVE FLOORMAT SET In black with HAMANN logo in silver For left-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060 120 For right-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060
� Authentic HAMANN COVER FOR OIL FILLER CAP In aluminium Item-No.: 80 099 117
� Authentic HAMANN SPORT REAR MUFFLER 4 TAILPIPES Sport rear muffler with four round stainless-steel tailpipes ( � 76mm ) Item-No.: 50 060 111
� Authentic HAMANN new add-on for M pack rear with diffusor for quad pipes -AVAILABLE NOW (http://forums.e60.net/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=30630&st=0#entry332409)
� ///M steering wheel w Pegasus logo (this will be also changed to three spoke sports)
� ///M pack rear
� HAMANN ECU upgrade 265 HP 608 Nm.
most improtant:
�real and working like a charm forumsbuy real LED tails and PIAA 4700k fogs!!! for HAMANN full front apron you need H3
� CustomAngels, Angel Eyes Brighter than stocks 10X, WHITE & (REd for shows).
� Authentic HAMANN LIGHT-ALLOY WHEELS DESIGN EDITION RACE 20"
Ultra-light forged 3-pieced light-alloy wheel, Cross-spoke-design,Spider in black, titanium, screwing,polished flange
DIMENSIONS : 9.0 J x 20 FA Item No.: 91 207 315
10.5 J x 20 only RA Item No.: 91 207 625
Recommended 20" Complete Wheel Set DESIGN EDITION RACE I went with most aggressive Combination A.10 FA 9.0 J x 20 / RA 10.5 J x 20 with tires: FA 245/30 ZR 20 / RA 285/25 ZR 20
� Authentic HAMANN LOWERING KIT 4 progressive sport springs Lowering by approx. 40 mm FA, 20 mm RA Item-No.: 20 060 125
� Authentic HAMANN TIRE - PRESSURE CHECK SENSOR SYSTEM
� Authentic HAMANN SIDE SILLS Item-No.: 10 060 120
� Authentic HAMANN REAL CF ROOF SPOLIER Item-No.: 10 060 235
� Authentic HAMANN AIRBAG SPORT STEERING WHEEL 3-SPOKE Three-spoke design w their SMG paddles (For assembly O.E. airbag in exchange)
� Authentic HAMANN sports mirrors (all functions)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and of course !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
E60.net Clings
Still to do list;-):
� Our Hobi's camera system from : ww.switchchange.com).
� Individual leather interior (auburn+auburn alcantara)... and drive with sheer drivin' pleasure ... until 2009/2010 F10 comes or E60 possibly a 540d V8 diesel early in 2009 badly juiced!
Originally Posted by nicke60gre' post='343382' date='Oct 10 2006, 03:11 PM
Guys, that heat lamps are dangerous for fiber parts. It's better to let primer dry for at least 24 hours and then paint the parts. Each time I have use those lamps dry the primer, then I always had finish troubles on the paint, which they appeared three - four months later.
The problem is the SHOP who said something attractive with out even thinking of how much paint they need and what that will cost, specially that is about more parts, this is why I stessed out this has nothing to with quality of HAMANN parts, why these have German T?V certificates?? The World's stricktest standards and HAMANN performance parts comply with those
so we never say you do not say it right DiezelPower, but the way you did it was mistaken,
madoon shokran well said, I suggest guys to end this story and let our member to reread and think all he said and did and only he can settle this with the shop or whoever he thinks, for me no hard feelings to any of you, just about democracy I as an adult hate when personal subjective thoughst are preseneted as objective facts
sorry that is how I am 
I love this Forums of ours so funny
I suggest we stop this here, and turn back to normal life there are some more threads like Nikos new project!!!
10-10-2006, 05:37 AM
#35
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My Ride: 03/2005mod 535d E61
*Chipped* 350bhp/700NM
*KN Air filter
*Hamann Style Front Lip
*Hamann Style Diffuser
*M5 look carbon mirrors
*6000k Xenon Kit
*6000k Angel Eyes
*20" Rims
*Black Kidneys
*Quad Exhaust
*Drilled and slotted brake rotors
*EBC Yellowstuff Brakepads
- Active Steering, Panorama Sunroof, Sport Seats, M-Package, Anthracite Roof Liner, M-Pedals, M-sport suspension, M-Sport Steering Wheel, Auto Leveling, Navi Pro, CD-Changer, Aux Input, M-Sport Door Sills, Iso-Fix (I have two children). I will post pictures later on... Bought the car 21st of Septermber and went abroad to work on the 23rd of September... Will try to get some decent pictures...
Originally Posted by ats77' post='343377' date='Oct 10 2006, 02:51 PM
so Alex you are the second biased but satisfied customer. Seems that your shop in Brazil seems know how to do a perfect job very nice and soon to be continued...
da modder frenzy is very unhealthy for our vallets
very nice and soon to be continued... da modder frenzy is very unhealthy for our vallets
Seems like you are sponsored though... Since you take it so personally..
10-10-2006, 05:40 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by ats77' post='343383' date='Oct 10 2006, 04:19 PM
our Nikos is not a "biased" HAMANN guy ....
I suggest we stop this here, and turn back to normal life there are some more threads like Nikos new project!!!
I suggest we stop this here, and turn back to normal life there are some more threads like Nikos new project!!!
What project are you talking about?
I have already made three of them 
10-10-2006, 05:48 AM
#37
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My Ride: MY RIDE is DA real .-) HAMANN 5 aka BLACK MAMBA born on 16/06/2005/delivered on 05/08/2005 as following:
530dA (steptronic), Black II (JET), leather Dakota auburn black, mapple trim, head-up display, dynamic drive, active steering, adaptive xenon headlights (auto levelling) with headlight washers, alarm, comfort seats with massage function, advanced A/C, big compartment armrest, aux-in, MP3, Logic 7, Radio PRO, CD in-dash+cd changer, power rear sunshades, rear airbags, park distance control, auto dimming folding mirrors, smoking package, shiny shadow line (individual), fold down rear seats, ski bag, sport suspension, run flats on �116-style� rims (Good Year NCT5+), cup holders, debadged, fire extinguishers, additional permanent power outlet, BMW coat hanger, trunk release button (installed by Hobi), GPS tracking device and a big thx 2 Iceman.
Mods done:
� Authentic HAMANN FRONT APRON Including ellipsoid fog lights Item-No.: 10 060 110
� Authentic HAMANN REAR SPOILER Item-No.: 10 060 130,
� Authentic HAMANN HAMANN ALUMINIUM PEDALS For cars with manual gearbox Item-No.: 80 099 100 81,00 For cars with automatic transmission Item-No.: 80 099 120
� Authentic HAMANN FOOT REST In aluminium For left-hand drive vehicles Item No. : 80 099 122
� Authentic HAMANN HAND-BRAKE LEVER In aluminium For left- and right-hand drive cars Item No. : 80 099 216
� Authentic HAMANN Idrive of alu (sorry this is the only one in the World) but you can have it in carbon fiber ,
� Authentic HAMANN EXCLUSIVE FLOORMAT SET In black with HAMANN logo in silver For left-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060 120 For right-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060
� Authentic HAMANN COVER FOR OIL FILLER CAP In aluminium Item-No.: 80 099 117
� Authentic HAMANN SPORT REAR MUFFLER 4 TAILPIPES Sport rear muffler with four round stainless-steel tailpipes ( � 76mm ) Item-No.: 50 060 111
� Authentic HAMANN new add-on for M pack rear with diffusor for quad pipes -AVAILABLE NOW (http://forums.e60.net/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=30630&st=0#entry332409)
� ///M steering wheel w Pegasus logo (this will be also changed to three spoke sports)
� ///M pack rear
� HAMANN ECU upgrade 265 HP 608 Nm.
most improtant:
�real and working like a charm forumsbuy real LED tails and PIAA 4700k fogs!!! for HAMANN full front apron you need H3
� CustomAngels, Angel Eyes Brighter than stocks 10X, WHITE & (REd for shows).
� Authentic HAMANN LIGHT-ALLOY WHEELS DESIGN EDITION RACE 20"
Ultra-light forged 3-pieced light-alloy wheel, Cross-spoke-design,Spider in black, titanium, screwing,polished flange
DIMENSIONS : 9.0 J x 20 FA Item No.: 91 207 315
10.5 J x 20 only RA Item No.: 91 207 625
Recommended 20" Complete Wheel Set DESIGN EDITION RACE I went with most aggressive Combination A.10 FA 9.0 J x 20 / RA 10.5 J x 20 with tires: FA 245/30 ZR 20 / RA 285/25 ZR 20
� Authentic HAMANN LOWERING KIT 4 progressive sport springs Lowering by approx. 40 mm FA, 20 mm RA Item-No.: 20 060 125
� Authentic HAMANN TIRE - PRESSURE CHECK SENSOR SYSTEM
� Authentic HAMANN SIDE SILLS Item-No.: 10 060 120
� Authentic HAMANN REAL CF ROOF SPOLIER Item-No.: 10 060 235
� Authentic HAMANN AIRBAG SPORT STEERING WHEEL 3-SPOKE Three-spoke design w their SMG paddles (For assembly O.E. airbag in exchange)
� Authentic HAMANN sports mirrors (all functions)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and of course !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
E60.net Clings
Still to do list;-):
� Our Hobi's camera system from : ww.switchchange.com).
� Individual leather interior (auburn+auburn alcantara)... and drive with sheer drivin' pleasure ... until 2009/2010 F10 comes or E60 possibly a 540d V8 diesel early in 2009 badly juiced!
Originally Posted by Diezelpower' post='343386' date='Oct 10 2006, 03:37 PM
ATS77:I've removed personal info from the mail from U.S.
Seems like you are sponsored though... Since you take it so personally..
Seems like you are sponsored though... Since you take it so personally..
for me it is not personal I just like when something is fair, that is it, who knows Hamann-man they know it
but if you are so curious I always pay them and my shops too whatever they ask as this is not a "flee market", second through me this whole Forums is sponsored with nice deals but still without any banners!!! and we have here many satisfied members not only mentioning Alex who has Hamanned M5 and 130i too
... many others thx good.
and your thread's main question is also replied: NO!!!
10-10-2006, 05:49 AM
#38
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My Ride: MY RIDE is DA real .-) HAMANN 5 aka BLACK MAMBA born on 16/06/2005/delivered on 05/08/2005 as following:
530dA (steptronic), Black II (JET), leather Dakota auburn black, mapple trim, head-up display, dynamic drive, active steering, adaptive xenon headlights (auto levelling) with headlight washers, alarm, comfort seats with massage function, advanced A/C, big compartment armrest, aux-in, MP3, Logic 7, Radio PRO, CD in-dash+cd changer, power rear sunshades, rear airbags, park distance control, auto dimming folding mirrors, smoking package, shiny shadow line (individual), fold down rear seats, ski bag, sport suspension, run flats on �116-style� rims (Good Year NCT5+), cup holders, debadged, fire extinguishers, additional permanent power outlet, BMW coat hanger, trunk release button (installed by Hobi), GPS tracking device and a big thx 2 Iceman.
Mods done:
� Authentic HAMANN FRONT APRON Including ellipsoid fog lights Item-No.: 10 060 110
� Authentic HAMANN REAR SPOILER Item-No.: 10 060 130,
� Authentic HAMANN HAMANN ALUMINIUM PEDALS For cars with manual gearbox Item-No.: 80 099 100 81,00 For cars with automatic transmission Item-No.: 80 099 120
� Authentic HAMANN FOOT REST In aluminium For left-hand drive vehicles Item No. : 80 099 122
� Authentic HAMANN HAND-BRAKE LEVER In aluminium For left- and right-hand drive cars Item No. : 80 099 216
� Authentic HAMANN Idrive of alu (sorry this is the only one in the World) but you can have it in carbon fiber ,
� Authentic HAMANN EXCLUSIVE FLOORMAT SET In black with HAMANN logo in silver For left-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060 120 For right-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060
� Authentic HAMANN COVER FOR OIL FILLER CAP In aluminium Item-No.: 80 099 117
� Authentic HAMANN SPORT REAR MUFFLER 4 TAILPIPES Sport rear muffler with four round stainless-steel tailpipes ( � 76mm ) Item-No.: 50 060 111
� Authentic HAMANN new add-on for M pack rear with diffusor for quad pipes -AVAILABLE NOW (http://forums.e60.net/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=30630&st=0#entry332409)
� ///M steering wheel w Pegasus logo (this will be also changed to three spoke sports)
� ///M pack rear
� HAMANN ECU upgrade 265 HP 608 Nm.
most improtant:
�real and working like a charm forumsbuy real LED tails and PIAA 4700k fogs!!! for HAMANN full front apron you need H3
� CustomAngels, Angel Eyes Brighter than stocks 10X, WHITE & (REd for shows).
� Authentic HAMANN LIGHT-ALLOY WHEELS DESIGN EDITION RACE 20"
Ultra-light forged 3-pieced light-alloy wheel, Cross-spoke-design,Spider in black, titanium, screwing,polished flange
DIMENSIONS : 9.0 J x 20 FA Item No.: 91 207 315
10.5 J x 20 only RA Item No.: 91 207 625
Recommended 20" Complete Wheel Set DESIGN EDITION RACE I went with most aggressive Combination A.10 FA 9.0 J x 20 / RA 10.5 J x 20 with tires: FA 245/30 ZR 20 / RA 285/25 ZR 20
� Authentic HAMANN LOWERING KIT 4 progressive sport springs Lowering by approx. 40 mm FA, 20 mm RA Item-No.: 20 060 125
� Authentic HAMANN TIRE - PRESSURE CHECK SENSOR SYSTEM
� Authentic HAMANN SIDE SILLS Item-No.: 10 060 120
� Authentic HAMANN REAL CF ROOF SPOLIER Item-No.: 10 060 235
� Authentic HAMANN AIRBAG SPORT STEERING WHEEL 3-SPOKE Three-spoke design w their SMG paddles (For assembly O.E. airbag in exchange)
� Authentic HAMANN sports mirrors (all functions)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and of course !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
E60.net Clings
Still to do list;-):
� Our Hobi's camera system from : ww.switchchange.com).
� Individual leather interior (auburn+auburn alcantara)... and drive with sheer drivin' pleasure ... until 2009/2010 F10 comes or E60 possibly a 540d V8 diesel early in 2009 badly juiced!
Originally Posted by nicke60gre' post='343388' date='Oct 10 2006, 03:40 PM
I have never fitted even one aftermarket part (non BMW OEM) on my car, except Eibachs, but I do know thinks about painting, ...it's part of my job.
What project are you talking about? I have already made three of them
Attachment 24650
Attachment 24649
Attachment 24648
What project are you talking about?
I have already made three of them Attachment 24650
Attachment 24649
Attachment 24648
let me know the details come on ps. I asked you in your thread but you like this more
10-10-2006, 05:52 AM
#39
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My Ride: 645Ci black/red, Eibach springs, K&N air filter, Wetterauer ECU upgrade, Eisenmann 83mmx4 exhaust, 20" Sportec wheels-Michelin PS2 tires, Hamann front add-on lip
I think everyone here has no intention to discredit Hamann's reputation. From my experience, it does takes more time for my workshop to have the Hamann lip fit nicely to my bumper. And it seems the BMW OEM parts seemed to have better fitment right from the box. But, it does not mean that Hamann product is inferior in anyway. It might consume a little more time to prime and paint Hamann parts, because they are made from fiber composite and has the tendency to absorb a little more paint compare to polyurethane-based material. I think any decent workshop should have no difficulties in fitting and painting hamann parts.
Peace :-)
Peace :-)
10-10-2006, 05:58 AM
#40
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My Ride: MY RIDE is DA real .-) HAMANN 5 aka BLACK MAMBA born on 16/06/2005/delivered on 05/08/2005 as following:
530dA (steptronic), Black II (JET), leather Dakota auburn black, mapple trim, head-up display, dynamic drive, active steering, adaptive xenon headlights (auto levelling) with headlight washers, alarm, comfort seats with massage function, advanced A/C, big compartment armrest, aux-in, MP3, Logic 7, Radio PRO, CD in-dash+cd changer, power rear sunshades, rear airbags, park distance control, auto dimming folding mirrors, smoking package, shiny shadow line (individual), fold down rear seats, ski bag, sport suspension, run flats on �116-style� rims (Good Year NCT5+), cup holders, debadged, fire extinguishers, additional permanent power outlet, BMW coat hanger, trunk release button (installed by Hobi), GPS tracking device and a big thx 2 Iceman.
Mods done:
� Authentic HAMANN FRONT APRON Including ellipsoid fog lights Item-No.: 10 060 110
� Authentic HAMANN REAR SPOILER Item-No.: 10 060 130,
� Authentic HAMANN HAMANN ALUMINIUM PEDALS For cars with manual gearbox Item-No.: 80 099 100 81,00 For cars with automatic transmission Item-No.: 80 099 120
� Authentic HAMANN FOOT REST In aluminium For left-hand drive vehicles Item No. : 80 099 122
� Authentic HAMANN HAND-BRAKE LEVER In aluminium For left- and right-hand drive cars Item No. : 80 099 216
� Authentic HAMANN Idrive of alu (sorry this is the only one in the World) but you can have it in carbon fiber ,
� Authentic HAMANN EXCLUSIVE FLOORMAT SET In black with HAMANN logo in silver For left-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060 120 For right-hand drive cars Item-No. : 80 060
� Authentic HAMANN COVER FOR OIL FILLER CAP In aluminium Item-No.: 80 099 117
� Authentic HAMANN SPORT REAR MUFFLER 4 TAILPIPES Sport rear muffler with four round stainless-steel tailpipes ( � 76mm ) Item-No.: 50 060 111
� Authentic HAMANN new add-on for M pack rear with diffusor for quad pipes -AVAILABLE NOW (http://forums.e60.net/index.php?act=ST&f=22&t=30630&st=0#entry332409)
� ///M steering wheel w Pegasus logo (this will be also changed to three spoke sports)
� ///M pack rear
� HAMANN ECU upgrade 265 HP 608 Nm.
most improtant:
�real and working like a charm forumsbuy real LED tails and PIAA 4700k fogs!!! for HAMANN full front apron you need H3
� CustomAngels, Angel Eyes Brighter than stocks 10X, WHITE & (REd for shows).
� Authentic HAMANN LIGHT-ALLOY WHEELS DESIGN EDITION RACE 20"
Ultra-light forged 3-pieced light-alloy wheel, Cross-spoke-design,Spider in black, titanium, screwing,polished flange
DIMENSIONS : 9.0 J x 20 FA Item No.: 91 207 315
10.5 J x 20 only RA Item No.: 91 207 625
Recommended 20" Complete Wheel Set DESIGN EDITION RACE I went with most aggressive Combination A.10 FA 9.0 J x 20 / RA 10.5 J x 20 with tires: FA 245/30 ZR 20 / RA 285/25 ZR 20
� Authentic HAMANN LOWERING KIT 4 progressive sport springs Lowering by approx. 40 mm FA, 20 mm RA Item-No.: 20 060 125
� Authentic HAMANN TIRE - PRESSURE CHECK SENSOR SYSTEM
� Authentic HAMANN SIDE SILLS Item-No.: 10 060 120
� Authentic HAMANN REAL CF ROOF SPOLIER Item-No.: 10 060 235
� Authentic HAMANN AIRBAG SPORT STEERING WHEEL 3-SPOKE Three-spoke design w their SMG paddles (For assembly O.E. airbag in exchange)
� Authentic HAMANN sports mirrors (all functions)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and of course !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
E60.net Clings
Still to do list;-):
� Our Hobi's camera system from : ww.switchchange.com).
� Individual leather interior (auburn+auburn alcantara)... and drive with sheer drivin' pleasure ... until 2009/2010 F10 comes or E60 possibly a 540d V8 diesel early in 2009 badly juiced!
Originally Posted by gasterus' post='343392' date='Oct 10 2006, 03:52 PM
I think everyone here has no intention to discredit Hamann's reputation. From my experience, it does takes more time for my workshop to have the Hamann lip fit nicely to my bumper. And it seems the BMW OEM parts seemed to have better fitment right from the box. But, it does not mean that Hamann product is inferior in anyway. It might consume a little more time to prime and paint Hamann parts, because they are made from fiber composite and has the tendency to absorb a little more paint compare to polyurethane-based material. I think any decent workshop should have no difficulties in fitting and painting hamann parts.
Peace :-)
Peace :-)
you must understand we do not want you not to share your thought but do it in a fair way, and wanted or not, you did NOT blame your shop but the end-product you see that is it all i do not like no matter what brand. eg. I love Ferrari and hell yeah want one, but at this time got not enough $$$ so shall I blame them for that for me peace 2 :-) move along guys