m630

are you serious?

i would argue that if not for the American Market, no car or luxury goods company in the world for that matter, would be anywhere near as successful as they are today...Toyota is a super power house purely on the american market (and govt subsidies), there is no big acceptance for luxury cars from the japanese in europe for the most part, nor the rest of the world...BMWs #1 market outside of germany is always the US, it is the US that has allowed all luxury companies to grow and expand as they have in the past 20 years....talk about SUVs and you are talking about the US market, Mercedes has as many SUV models as they have cars now, and they arent building them for europeans; i just dont understand how you say that comment above

as for the car problem with american companies, they have trully missed the 'boat' so to speak.... its corporate mis-mangement that has caused the problems, imho, as well as the legal and labor systems in the US... We in the US can build spacecraft to fly around the solar system and beyond, we can land on the moon bring men back safely using 1960's technology; we can clearly build a solid car if managed properly, it aint rocket science or nothing like that...perhaps some day a true car enthusiast will take over Ford or GM before its too late, i would happily buy an american car if they got their act together

LowOrbit

True, labor unions a huge problem now, but the real underlying factor is that GM etc. does not make cars people want.

Back in the early 80s?, the U.S. automakers made these sweetheart deals with the unions because they assumed they could cover these costs given the expectation that the Big 3's U.S. market share would remain constant.

With the advent of the Japanese invasion and the increasing popularity of German brands, the market share of the Big 3 dropped dramatically so they were not able to cover these (essentially) fixed labor costs. If the Big 3 would have been quicker in making more reliable/efficient/higher-quality cars, the inroads by foreign makers would have been much smaller. Now, with the huge legacy costs, the Big 3 may never have the cash flow to spend on R&D to become competitive.

I can not think of one American car I would buy (would choose a Boxter over a Vette), which is pretty sad.

ImolaRedM

The American public hasn't driven 55mph since the Oil Embargo of 1973. Yes I know we've had a NMSL of 55mph from 1974-1995 (RIP) but no one really drove that slow.

The idea that the American public only likes straight line driving is only partially true. Most people just don't care either way. Cars are appliances to them.

ImolaRedM

I with you on that one. I would be interested in the Tesla but that's not a major player. I can't even think of a Truck or SUV I would want that is an American mark. Land Rover Defender, MB G500, or Unimog (scale from small to large) would be my choice.

LowOrbit

What high end luxury cars does America produce? Most Cadillacs are under $50K. Lexus, MB, BMW etc. have no real U.S. competitors. The reason the U.S. makes up such a huge portion of BMW etc. sales is pure economics - the U.S. has the most buying power of any country and almost all of the really high-end cars, fashion etc. are foreign. As I mentioned, the Big 3 really were too slow to improve the quality.

Even if only 5% of the U.S. really appreciates sophisticated cars (and can afford them), that is still a huge market. The majority of Americans don't care about quality as much, which is why American cars are still sold here.

In reality, a lot of MB and BMW owners probably don't truly appreciate the difference, but they buy them for status reasons.

dlevi67

I doubt it's that. Social costs of European companies are significant too (in Italy and France they can be >70% of wage costs), and German and French salaries are significantly higher than comparable US ones, particularly for skilled manual and low-end clerical workers. While it's possibly true that strong unionisation is responsible for much of the financial trouble that afflicts the US car industry, that does not explain why Ford (and now even GM) can consistently produce "fun to drive" cars for the European mass market (e.g. Focus, Mondeo, new Astra), but not in the US one.

LowOrbit

Very interesting point.

Perhaps its because the U.S. part of GM etc. has been making huge profits on their SUVs so there was no pressure to focus on making quality, fun-to-drive cars for the U.S. market.

We may now see some progress in this area given that Big 3 SUV sales have plummeted.

ImolaRedM

It's a little sad but here's a list of American cars over $55k. I might have missed a few but the only one I haven't been in that I would like to drive some day is the Panoz and maybe the GT, but at those prices I can think of other cars I would rather own.

2007 Cadillac STS-V MSRP: $74,870

2007 Cadillac XLR MSRP: $78,080-$97,460

2007 Cadillac Escalade MSRP: $54,500-$59,470

2006 HUMMER H1 Alpha MSRP: $128,374-$139,771

2007 Chevrolet Corvette MSRP: $44,170-$69,175

2006 Dodge Viper MSRP: $83,145

2006 Panoz Esperante MSRP: $97,360-$128,319

2006 Ford GT MSRP: $149,995

LowOrbit

Wow!

That is the only U.S. competition for the German sedans? Quite sad.

my530i

Don't forget Saleen S7!