Phantom Mark

You cant compare an R8 with anything out of the current BMW showroom, just silly sorry.

Audi are closing the gap now they have started to rework the differentials on those quattro systems, pushing more power to the rear to aid driver enjoyment, hence why the R8 is a cut above your average Audi.

Audi IMHO are the new BMW in terms of quality these days, and now they start to catch up in the driving enjoyment, BMW should watch their backs, espcially with the poor Dealer performances I keep encountering.

Ricracing

It's all about branding, but also about competition.

All three are the best auto brands there are, and the
Japanese try to copy cat them.

Rolls-Royce is a BMW-brand, Bentley, Bugatti and Lamborghini a VW/Audi-brand
and Maybach a M-B-brand.

It has to do with the German engineering quality and the interest
to race cars from the '30's.

Audi went for the Quattro (rally) and front wheel drive, M-B for
the comfort and luxury but BMW went for the luxury sport.
BMW did race a lot on the track while M-B didn't, do to a catastrophic
accident on a F1 race track in the 50's.

But now the competition is hard, and all make great cars, the
tech has gone so much forward compared to the '90's.

BMW and M-B will soon have the same small parts, as sensors etc.
and Audi is soon (as a part of the VW/Seat/Skoda etc. company) a part of Porsche.

craigm1841

yeah, you are right. the R8 costs $125K.

if the R8 is what you are using to base Audis competitiveness against BMW, that is silly. lets try to compare "apples to apples" like the A6 to an E60. you will get far more enjoyment out of the E60

mag75

Would you really consider a MB an over-powered monster ? My definition would be more like grandpa cruiser....

craigm1841

i think when we talk overpowered monsters, we are looking at like the AMG C63. when you compare that power to a BMW, we are looking at like an M5. the M5 is closer to an engineering marvel, while the C63 is just a extremely fast car that is far more fun to drive down a straight line. The c63 was built to be FAST. the M5 was built to be a race car in sheeps clothing, granted, an angry sheep, but a sheep none the less

mag75

Good point. But as soon as you get down to the C and E classes....nothing is too impressive in my opinion (in terms of speed). I would take a M3 anyday.

Kzang

I'm not comparing the R8 with an average BMWs..
Guys my point was Audi engineers are capable of making excellent handling cars same as Toyota ( Lexus IS-F )and other car makers.

E60714

Don't forget Porsche. I believe Porsche owns all of the above (VW, Audi, Bentley, Skoda, etc.).

DD_545i

It sure gets complicated.

Mercedes currently own nothing as far as I'm aware.

BMW owns Mini and Rolls Royce.

Audi owns Lamborghini.

VW owns Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Skoda, Seat and a few more lesser known brands. I think the VW CEO is a grandchild of Ferdinand Porsche (or something like that).

Porsche owns 51% of the shares of VW, although it went heavily into debt to buy those shares. Despite owning 51%, they can't do what they want with VW because the german state VW is in owns 20% and has a power of veto over any decisions. There's all kinds of crap going on between VW and Porsche at the moment. There are talks of VW buying out Porsche or firing Porsche's CEO somehow. It's a mess.

Here's how I'd order the handling capabilities of German cars:

1. Audi R8
2. All Porsches
3. BMW "M" models
4. Audi "RS" models
5. All other BMWs
6. Mercedes AMG models
7. All other Audis
8. All other Mercedes
9. All VWs (I suppose the VW Golf GTi would be a bit higher).

craigm1841

you basically you are saying a base model porsche cayenne handles better then an M3 or M5...

i just threw your logic out the window in one sentance

or... a bmw 750 handles better then a SL-65 AMG. (that was for good measure)