what handles better i6 or v8
09-04-2009, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='998305' date='Sep 4 2009, 10:34 AM
The point is the Ring time is generally accepted by manufacturers and buyers alike as one of the yardsticks of a car's overall performance. It's why BMW and others spend so much development time on the circuit and why lap times are generally accepted as reasonably indicative of the car's overall performance.
Fact is, based on the best recorded times, the C63 did the lap as quickly as your car (and both cars recorded a more than respectable time). Both laps were, incidentially, recorded by the same driver - although admittedly on different days.
Someone else implied in an earlier post that AMG cars are poor handlers, offering nothing other than torque and straight line speed - my post simply presented the C63 as a counterpoint.
Fact is, based on the best recorded times, the C63 did the lap as quickly as your car (and both cars recorded a more than respectable time). Both laps were, incidentially, recorded by the same driver - although admittedly on different days.
Someone else implied in an earlier post that AMG cars are poor handlers, offering nothing other than torque and straight line speed - my post simply presented the C63 as a counterpoint.
09-04-2009, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by sdg1871' post='998350' date='Sep 4 2009, 08:22 AM
I think that the overarching point in your posts is that unlike some of the previous AMG cars, which had awesome straight line speed but ponderous handling, the C63 is an excellent handling car, is well taken. It may not be quite as crisp a handler as the M3 but it is no mere drag racer/boulevardier.
09-04-2009, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='998305' date='Sep 4 2009, 10:34 AM
The point is the Ring time is generally accepted by manufacturers and buyers alike as one of the yardsticks of a car's overall performance. It's why BMW and others spend so much development time on the circuit and why lap times are generally accepted as reasonably indicative of the car's overall performance.
Fact is, based on the best recorded times, the C63 did the lap as quickly as your car (and both cars recorded a more than respectable time). Both laps were, incidentially, recorded by the same driver - although admittedly on different days.
Someone else implied in an earlier post that AMG cars are poor handlers, offering nothing other than torque and straight line speed - my post simply presented the C63 as a counterpoint.
Fact is, based on the best recorded times, the C63 did the lap as quickly as your car (and both cars recorded a more than respectable time). Both laps were, incidentially, recorded by the same driver - although admittedly on different days.
Someone else implied in an earlier post that AMG cars are poor handlers, offering nothing other than torque and straight line speed - my post simply presented the C63 as a counterpoint.
The M3 and M5 are faster than cars in their class.
The M5 also lapped the nurburgring faster than a Lotus Exige S, so by your logic BMWs handle better than Lotuses....
09-04-2009, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by sdg1871' post='998350' date='Sep 4 2009, 11:22 AM
I think that the overarching point in your posts is that unlike some of the previous AMG cars, which had awesome straight line speed but ponderous handling, the C63 is an excellent handling car, is well taken. It may not be quite as crisp a handler as the M3 but it is no mere drag racer/boulevardier.
09-04-2009, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by BMWPower06' post='998412' date='Sep 4 2009, 09:30 AM
You've yet to hit the main point of my post. Why are you comparing apples to Oranges. In no way shape or form will a prospective M5 buyer look at a C63...An E63 maybe
The M3 and M5 are faster than cars in their class.
The M5 also lapped the nurburgring faster than a Lotus Exige S, so by your logic BMWs handle better than Lotuses....
The M3 and M5 are faster than cars in their class.
The M5 also lapped the nurburgring faster than a Lotus Exige S, so by your logic BMWs handle better than Lotuses....
The C63/M5 is far less of a lateral leap than an M5 to an Exige. I'm confident customers do indeed cross-shop the C63 with the M5.
As an example, when I bought my 997, I looked at the M5, M6, E63, Jaguar XK-R, RS-4 and the Aston Martin V8 Vantage. I also considered the Maserati Quattroporte. I was looking for my daily driver and I would have been happy with any one of them. Hardly apples to apples there either...
09-04-2009, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='998429' date='Sep 4 2009, 12:44 PM
There will always be statistical outliers but the Ring isn't just a test of handling, it's a test of a car's overall capabilities. The M5 won't handle as well as an Exige, but it is much more capable car overall - and the faster 'Ring time confirms this.
The C63/M5 is far less of a lateral leap than an M5 to an Exige. I'm confident customers do indeed cross-shop the C63 with the M5.
As an example, when I bought my 997, I looked at the M5, M6, E63, Jaguar XK-R, RS-4 and the Aston Martin V8 Vantage. I also considered the Maserati Quattroporte. I was looking for my daily driver and I would have been happy with any one of them. Hardly apples to apples there either...
The C63/M5 is far less of a lateral leap than an M5 to an Exige. I'm confident customers do indeed cross-shop the C63 with the M5.
As an example, when I bought my 997, I looked at the M5, M6, E63, Jaguar XK-R, RS-4 and the Aston Martin V8 Vantage. I also considered the Maserati Quattroporte. I was looking for my daily driver and I would have been happy with any one of them. Hardly apples to apples there either...
Your constant reference to the C63 vs M5 lap time is non-sense. The M5 is a MUCH larger & MUCH heavier car than the C63. Weight and size is EVERYTHING in a race car, just ask Lotus...
You wanna talk handling then compare the M3 to the C63 and you'll see the AMG's handling is no where near that of BMW ///M
09-04-2009, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by BMWPower06' post='998433' date='Sep 4 2009, 09:52 AM
So are you saying all of the car's you listed above are in the same class?
Your constant reference to the C63 vs M5 lap time is non-sense. The M5 is a MUCH larger & MUCH heavier car than the C63. Weight and size is EVERYTHING in a race car, just ask Lotus...
You wanna talk handling then compare the M3 to the C63 and you'll see the AMG's handling is no where near that of BMW ///M
Your constant reference to the C63 vs M5 lap time is non-sense. The M5 is a MUCH larger & MUCH heavier car than the C63. Weight and size is EVERYTHING in a race car, just ask Lotus...
You wanna talk handling then compare the M3 to the C63 and you'll see the AMG's handling is no where near that of BMW ///M
The M5 isn't much larger than a C63. More to the point, the weight difference between the C63 and the M5 is less than that between the 535 and the 550 - which has taken up much of the conversation in this very thread. On this basis, the comparison between the M5 and the C63 is far from a non-sequitur.
If you look at my posts again, you'll see that I have never claimed the C63 can out handle the M3 - I have claimed, quite correctly, that it has a better handling balance than AMG models of old. You're basing much of your argument on what you wanted to (mis)read into it, not what I actually posted...
10-14-2009, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by calpalmer' post='994311' date='Aug 31 2009, 09:25 PM
I wish someone would start another 535i versus 550i thread.... it's been a while!! 
10-14-2009, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by DTD' post='1032627' date='Oct 14 2009, 09:44 PM
I am looking at the M 535 and am deciding from these threads that is is pretty equal to the 550 Sport for a significant better cost. It appears to be 8K better. I have a thread here called ~ "I am taking the Plunge with a Carbon Black 535 M Sport Package" Guys am I looking at this right? I drove her in Sports button mode with stick and paddle and am impressed with the 535M handling and set up. Thanks
10-14-2009, 06:50 PM
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What does it take to kill a thread these days? This thing keeps coming back like a zombie.