Ummm Have i been royally *****d
#21
Senior Members
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northern Sweden
Posts: 542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Diesel vs Petrol...ehh...start a new thread please.
I think BMW should waive the extra cost for auto trans and only charge for the more refined, sporty gearbox.
I would gladely picked an auto gearbox but budget says it ain't worth it.
One reason why manual has become more "standard", atleast in Sweden, is maybe because it has always been considered uneconomical to drive an automatic - fuel consumption has historically been higher and auto trans has been considered a bit sluggish and not as fun as stick shift.
Nowadays things have changed and I am willing to believe that most people would select auto gearbox for their car if the price was the same - regardless of car brand. It's such a smooth ride.
my 2 cents
I think BMW should waive the extra cost for auto trans and only charge for the more refined, sporty gearbox.
I would gladely picked an auto gearbox but budget says it ain't worth it.
One reason why manual has become more "standard", atleast in Sweden, is maybe because it has always been considered uneconomical to drive an automatic - fuel consumption has historically been higher and auto trans has been considered a bit sluggish and not as fun as stick shift.
Nowadays things have changed and I am willing to believe that most people would select auto gearbox for their car if the price was the same - regardless of car brand. It's such a smooth ride.
my 2 cents
#22
Contributors
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Posts: 1,180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: E61 535d Apr 05. UK spec + Media Pack, Luxury Pack & Visibility Pack
![Default](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by Scandic24' post='389689' date='Feb 10 2007, 06:33 PM
[snip]auto trans has been considered a bit sluggish and not as fun as stick shift.
Nowadays things have changed and I am willing to believe that most people would select auto gearbox for their car if the price was the same - regardless of car brand. It's such a smooth ride.
my 2 cents
Nowadays things have changed and I am willing to believe that most people would select auto gearbox for their car if the price was the same - regardless of car brand. It's such a smooth ride.
my 2 cents
#23
Senior Members
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northern Sweden
Posts: 542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by dlevi67' post='389694' date='Feb 10 2007, 07:47 PM
Perhaps not in Northern Sweden, but the increasing volume of traffic may also have something to do with changing preferences?
Rush hour with stick shift -- :thumbsdown:
#24
Senior Members
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Boston, MA USA
Posts: 925
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
[quote name='KAF' post='389574' date='Feb 10 2007, 05:30 AM']E60's I don't argue, but the car market genarally is 95% manual, so the standard is you pay extra for an auto box.
quote]
Really? Still?
When I was younger (in the age of dinosaurs), only hard-core enthusiasts in the States drove manuals. And over the years, as it became near impsossible to find US-branded cars with sticks, we all moved to foreign, mostly European makes. People like me thought that Europeans really knew how to enjoy driving.
But I've been dissappointed over the years with you guys as you seem to have adopted yet another bad American habit - automatic transmissions. Remember when you could get a 7er with a stick? An Audi A6? A big Mercedes? A big Volvo? Oh for the good ole days!
Anyway, I wish you guys would start driving manual transmission cars again. Creating demand over there may give me more choice over here. In the meantime, I'm holding my breath and hoping that BMW continues to let me buy 5ers with sticks for the next 30 years or so. Any help you Europeans can give me would be much appreciated.
quote]
Really? Still?
When I was younger (in the age of dinosaurs), only hard-core enthusiasts in the States drove manuals. And over the years, as it became near impsossible to find US-branded cars with sticks, we all moved to foreign, mostly European makes. People like me thought that Europeans really knew how to enjoy driving.
But I've been dissappointed over the years with you guys as you seem to have adopted yet another bad American habit - automatic transmissions. Remember when you could get a 7er with a stick? An Audi A6? A big Mercedes? A big Volvo? Oh for the good ole days!
Anyway, I wish you guys would start driving manual transmission cars again. Creating demand over there may give me more choice over here. In the meantime, I'm holding my breath and hoping that BMW continues to let me buy 5ers with sticks for the next 30 years or so. Any help you Europeans can give me would be much appreciated.
![Big Grin](https://5series.net/forums/images/smilies/imported/biggrin.gif)
#25
![Default](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by dlevi67' post='389683' date='Feb 10 2007, 06:18 PM
You said "5 years ago". I found data that goes back nearly 10 years, and then you complain that that's not far back enough... You are starting to sound like my wife. Or my clients. ![Big Grin](https://5series.net/forums/images/smilies/imported/biggrin.gif)
My point about the US is really about global capacity. If US demand for ULSD is rising, so will prices - globally, since a) it's a globally-traded commodity and b) the US is by far the largest market. Whether there is a "fair" rationale for the price rising, or whether we are being shafted, I cannot say. But at least if we are being shafted so is everybody else in Europe. (meagre satisfaction)
![Big Grin](https://5series.net/forums/images/smilies/imported/biggrin.gif)
My point about the US is really about global capacity. If US demand for ULSD is rising, so will prices - globally, since a) it's a globally-traded commodity and b) the US is by far the largest market. Whether there is a "fair" rationale for the price rising, or whether we are being shafted, I cannot say. But at least if we are being shafted so is everybody else in Europe. (meagre satisfaction)
I find data that proves the general point (diesel was, for eons, cheaper than petrol in the UK) - and it's invalid? You sound like my consultants. Shit a brick. I pay, I make the rules. I change the data gathering baseline but end up with the right solution!
As far as US affecting UK diesel prices, I somehow don't think that the new US 'needs' affected prices with effect from 1994 which is when the UK shafting started.
ABC
#26
Contributors
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Posts: 1,180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: E61 535d Apr 05. UK spec + Media Pack, Luxury Pack & Visibility Pack
![Default](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by aybeesea' post='389704' date='Feb 10 2007, 07:10 PM
I pay, I make the rules.
And BTW the "bone of contention" I had was that you said that you did not think that Diesel was more expensive than petrol because of tax effects. Lo and behold, as you (or as we jointly) have proven, to your (and my) satisfaction, Diesel was cheaper than petrol when taxes on Diesel were lower.
#27
![Default](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by dlevi67' post='389708' date='Feb 10 2007, 07:20 PM
Fine. The invoice is on its way.
![Whistling](https://5series.net/forums/images/smilies/imported/whistling.gif)
ABC
#28
Contributors
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Posts: 1,180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: E61 535d Apr 05. UK spec + Media Pack, Luxury Pack & Visibility Pack
![Default](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by hinckley' post='389702' date='Feb 10 2007, 06:58 PM
Really? Still?
When I was younger (in the age of dinosaurs), only hard-core enthusiasts in the States drove manuals. And over the years, as it became near impsossible to find US-branded cars with sticks, we all moved to foreign, mostly European makes. People like me thought that Europeans really knew how to enjoy driving.
But I've been dissappointed over the years with you guys as you seem to have adopted yet another bad American habit - automatic transmissions. Remember when you could get a 7er with a stick? An Audi A6? A big Mercedes? A big Volvo? Oh for the good ole days!
Anyway, I wish you guys would start driving manual transmission cars again. Creating demand over there may give me more choice over here. In the meantime, I'm holding my breath and hoping that BMW continues to let me buy 5ers with sticks for the next 30 years or so. Any help you Europeans can give me would be much appreciated.![Big Grin](https://5series.net/forums/images/smilies/imported/biggrin.gif)
When I was younger (in the age of dinosaurs), only hard-core enthusiasts in the States drove manuals. And over the years, as it became near impsossible to find US-branded cars with sticks, we all moved to foreign, mostly European makes. People like me thought that Europeans really knew how to enjoy driving.
But I've been dissappointed over the years with you guys as you seem to have adopted yet another bad American habit - automatic transmissions. Remember when you could get a 7er with a stick? An Audi A6? A big Mercedes? A big Volvo? Oh for the good ole days!
Anyway, I wish you guys would start driving manual transmission cars again. Creating demand over there may give me more choice over here. In the meantime, I'm holding my breath and hoping that BMW continues to let me buy 5ers with sticks for the next 30 years or so. Any help you Europeans can give me would be much appreciated.
![Big Grin](https://5series.net/forums/images/smilies/imported/biggrin.gif)
What I think KAF is referring to, though, is the 90-95% of the market which is not luxury/executive cars. There, manual dominates. However, DSG and similars will - my prediction - kill this dominance in the next 5-10 years.
#29
Contributors
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chippenham, Wiltshire UK
Posts: 1,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: F11 535i M-Sport,, Silver, Black Leather, LED Adaptive headlights
Model Year: 2015
Engine: N55
![Default](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by dlevi67' post='389713' date='Feb 10 2007, 07:36 PM
DSG and similars will - my prediction - kill this dominance in the next 5-10 years.
I think there is still a lack of trust amongst the UK car buying public in relation to auto boxes.
They used to be unreliable, plus of course they are best suited to large engines.
Cars in the US tend to have larger engines so make good use of auto transmissions.
In the UK and much of Europe the most popular engine size is around 1400 - 1600cc, the traditional power drain of an auto makes these engines very poor performers.
You may well be right that more modern 'auto' type transmissions and DSG will change that, but they have some serious marketing to do.
I am one who always said 'never an auto' but the 530D changed my mind.
#30
![Default](https://5series.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by KAF' post='389743' date='Feb 10 2007, 08:57 PM
You may well be right that more modern 'auto' type transmissions and DSG will change that, but they have some serious marketing to do.
ABC
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
rjcastr
DIY: Do It Yourself
4
01-15-2010 04:31 PM