Scandic24

Diesel vs Petrol...ehh...start a new thread please.

I think BMW should waive the extra cost for auto trans and only charge for the more refined, sporty gearbox.
I would gladely picked an auto gearbox but budget says it ain't worth it.
One reason why manual has become more "standard", atleast in Sweden, is maybe because it has always been considered uneconomical to drive an automatic - fuel consumption has historically been higher and auto trans has been considered a bit sluggish and not as fun as stick shift.
Nowadays things have changed and I am willing to believe that most people would select auto gearbox for their car if the price was the same - regardless of car brand. It's such a smooth ride.

my 2 cents

dlevi67

Perhaps not in Northern Sweden, but the increasing volume of traffic may also have something to do with changing preferences?

Scandic24

Yes, you're absolutely right!
Rush hour with stick shift -- :thumbsdown:

hinckley

[quote name='KAF' post='389574' date='Feb 10 2007, 05:30 AM']E60's I don't argue, but the car market genarally is 95% manual, so the standard is you pay extra for an auto box.
quote]

Really? Still?

When I was younger (in the age of dinosaurs), only hard-core enthusiasts in the States drove manuals. And over the years, as it became near impsossible to find US-branded cars with sticks, we all moved to foreign, mostly European makes. People like me thought that Europeans really knew how to enjoy driving.

But I've been dissappointed over the years with you guys as you seem to have adopted yet another bad American habit - automatic transmissions. Remember when you could get a 7er with a stick? An Audi A6? A big Mercedes? A big Volvo? Oh for the good ole days!

Anyway, I wish you guys would start driving manual transmission cars again. Creating demand over there may give me more choice over here. In the meantime, I'm holding my breath and hoping that BMW continues to let me buy 5ers with sticks for the next 30 years or so. Any help you Europeans can give me would be much appreciated.

aybeesea

So never say 'ever'. I said 5 years ago because I'm that old that it could be 10 or 15!

I find data that proves the general point (diesel was, for eons, cheaper than petrol in the UK) - and it's invalid? You sound like my consultants. Shit a brick. I pay, I make the rules. I change the data gathering baseline but end up with the right solution!

As far as US affecting UK diesel prices, I somehow don't think that the new US 'needs' affected prices with effect from 1994 which is when the UK shafting started.

ABC

dlevi67

Fine. The invoice is on its way.

And BTW the "bone of contention" I had was that you said that you did not think that Diesel was more expensive than petrol because of tax effects. Lo and behold, as you (or as we jointly) have proven, to your (and my) satisfaction, Diesel was cheaper than petrol when taxes on Diesel were lower.

aybeesea

But I pay for results. That may even mean paying myself in this case.



ABC

dlevi67

Well, I think increasing traffic and increasingly good autos (when the dinosaurs, you, and I, were young, a proper auto box had 3 gears, not 7) may account for the shift in preferences. The shaft is the US market gets more at a lower price than the UK (which BTW is the second largest worldwide market for BMW). But you also got a (flawed) M5 manual, so I don't think the manual is on its way out any time soon. On the other hand, I haven't been out for a "fun" drive since Christmas day. Because unless I drive at least 200 miles, I can't! So, welcome auto box.

What I think KAF is referring to, though, is the 90-95% of the market which is not luxury/executive cars. There, manual dominates. However, DSG and similars will - my prediction - kill this dominance in the next 5-10 years.

KAF

I think there is still a lack of trust amongst the UK car buying public in relation to auto boxes.

They used to be unreliable, plus of course they are best suited to large engines.

Cars in the US tend to have larger engines so make good use of auto transmissions.

In the UK and much of Europe the most popular engine size is around 1400 - 1600cc, the traditional power drain of an auto makes these engines very poor performers.

You may well be right that more modern 'auto' type transmissions and DSG will change that, but they have some serious marketing to do.

I am one who always said 'never an auto' but the 530D changed my mind.

aybeesea

The 'autos' are creeping up on Joe Public even in the small engined cars like the Honda Jazz (Fit) CVT and the Toyota Yaris and Auris MultiMode having manual/auto modes with paddles.

ABC