netjazz

Hmmmm.........maybe we are talking about two different things. I will try to clarify what I am talking about.

The type of road imperfections that cause the problem that I am thinking of as "tramlining" are things such as:

1. The shallow "lines" or "grooves" that run in freeway lanes that I guess are supposed to provide better grip when the surface is wet.

2. The dividing lines between two different slabs of concrete. You can usually see these between concrete lanes in freeways. However, sometimes they "redraw" the lines separating the lanes and end up putting these dividing lines within the lane, exacltly where the tires on one side of the care end up at.

The type of road imperfection that I am NOT talking about is deep & wide holes, cracks, grooves, or dips that can cause imbalance in any car.
[/quote]

Let me try to better define what creates the type of tramlining I am experiencing.
The stretch of highway on I-287 in Westchester County, New York gets a lot of heavy trackter-trailer traffic. These trucks almost always travel in the middle lane of three. This stretch of road appears to be in good shape, no holes or ruts or broken pavement even though it hasn't been repaved in many years. The problem is that the constant heavy truck traffic that takes this middle lane has caused two depressions in that lane exactly where the truck tires make contact with the road. When my 545i sport rides in these two hollows or depressions, that is when the car is caused to tramline as it fights to gain stability along these depressions. You actually fight the wheel just trying to keep the car straight. From behind drivers would swear you are drunk, that's how much the car sways back and forth. It feels possessed! This stretch of road goes on for a good 5 miles or so. Agreed this is an extreme area, but I do get it occasionaly on other roads but not as extreme. Other drivers with 545i Sports that report they don't tramline might not drive on highways that have been worn down in this manner, thus never experience this condition.
Again the tramlining does not occur when I switch to my 17" Dunlop nonRF snow-tires, nor do I get it on my '97 528i on the same road.
If any of you live in the NY area that have E-60 Sports, try taking I-287 West from the Merrit/Hutchison parkways to Exit 5 in White Plains, the MIDDLE lane. I am sure you will have the same experience. Again, I had an '04 545i Sport which I turned in for the identical '05. They both react exactly the same way. No coincedence. I hope this gives a better idea of what tramlining is.
Netjazz

colejl

I've just set my staggered setup to 37psi front, 39psi rear (about midway between min and max) and it seems much better already! There's more feel in the steering and seems to hold its line a bit better.

This is with Dunlops @ about 15K miles... Fronts are starting to wear more on the inside edge...

KickinA

What does a staggered set up mean? Thanks
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Staggered setup=your rear tires/rims are of different size than your fronts are,i.e it is what you get in a BMW sport package,on my 545 it is 245/40/18 front and 275/35/18 rear.
I am happy to report that my new Pirelli PZero Nero M+S is almost completely tramlining-free,much better ride, decent grip and perfect cornering(its still not broken in-i only have 50 miles on them-still have those small rubber hairs all over the tire and i feel it on hard acceleration/cornering)I wish i ve done it year ago!
[/quote]

Alexnyc,

I'm also thinking of getting the Pirelli PZero Nero M+S. Are these tires going to be your main tire? or Do you plan to swap for summer tires when it's warm?

How does the grip of Pirelli PZero Nero M+S compare your runflats?

thanks

vern

I'm also thinking of getting the Pirelli PZero Nero M+S. Are these tires going to be your main tire? or Do you plan to swap for summer tires when it's warm?

How does the grip of Pirelli PZero Nero M+S compare your runflats?

thanks
[/quote]
There is a great article in November's issue of Road & Track about Pirelli R/F it should give you all the answers your looking for without theB/S. Good luck.
cheers
vern

alexnyc

Alexnyc,

I'm also thinking of getting the Pirelli PZero Nero M+S. Are these tires going to be your main tire? or Do you plan to swap for summer tires when it's warm?

How does the grip of Pirelli PZero Nero M+S compare your runflats?

thanks
[/quote]

i was also a bit hesitant about all season tires during summer but now i am not anymore!they are superb! i have not tried hardcornering on them(still not broken in-still have these rubber filaments all over the tire-i have 100 mls on them)but early indications are good- on small bumps on hard acceleration DSC/DTC light blinks less often than it was when i had DunlopsRF(perhaps due to stiffness of Dunlops)-so the grip is even better i think!The sidewall of Pirellis is very stiff(tried it before they were mounted-much stiffer than Michelin PS AS.The ride is much better,the steering is almost as sharp-in fact i like it better-it feels like it does not have that hard end-point feeling that i had with RFlats but it still as responsive as it was, i can also tell you that going through gears is much smoother(its an SMG car and i felt it kicking in rougher before-not now! Where i live we dont have much snow(NYC)and i dont want to be caught driving max perf summers on snow,but your situation might be different-you may be better off having proper winter tires-i dont know how much it snows where you are. And yes-i will stick with these tires for year around-for me they are perfect blend of performance and weather capabilities.

netjazz

i was also a bit hesitant about all season tires during summer but now i am not anymore!they are superb! i have not tried hardcornering on them(still not broken in-still have these rubber filaments all over the tire-i have 100 mls on them)but early indications are good- on small bumps on hard acceleration DSC/DTC light blinks less often than it was when i had DunlopsRF(perhaps due to stiffness of Dunlops)-so the grip is even better i think!The sidewall of Pirellis is very stiff(tried it before they were mounted-much stiffer than Michelin PS AS.The ride is much better,the steering is almost as sharp-in fact i like it better-it feels like it does not have that hard end-point feeling that i had with RFlats but it still as responsive as it was, i can also tell you that going through gears is much smoother(its an SMG car and i felt it kicking in rougher before-not now! Where i live we dont have much snow(NYC)and i dont want to be caught driving max perf summers on snow,but your situation might be different-you may be better off having proper winter tires-i dont know how much it snows where you are. And yes-i will stick with these tires for year around-for me they are perfect blend of performance and weather capabilities.
[/quote]

Alexnyc
Being that you live in the NYC area, if you ever have reason to be on the stretch of road on I-287 West in Westchester County, give that middle lane a go prior to White Plains. That is the ultimate test for tramlining anywhere. If your Pirelli's (staggered) on your 545i Sport don't tramling there,you answered the question a lot of us are looking for an answer to. Either way, Good Luck with the new tires.
Netjazz

Ricracing

THANKS GUYS.

I have been trying to take up this topic but I did not know the word: TRAMLINING

We here in Finland we are very familiar with this problem. Because of winter tire with spikes, shitty weather conditions and trucks up to 70 metric tons, our roads are as valley area.

I have really bad tramlining problems on the worst roads with my Dunlop 245/40 18" but almost no problems with my winter 225/55 16" Conties.

There're three points to be consider about the tire:

1) The width on the tire. The wider the worst.

2) The profile. Higher is better.

3) The tire should be as round as possible at the edges.


My questions are:

1) Is the RF tire harder on the sides and therefore more sensitive to tramlining and other defects?

2) Does the pattern of the tire make a difference?

3) So should one buy
a) Continental SportContact2
b) Bridgestone Potenza RE050
c) Michelin SportPilot2

...or simply go to 225/50 17" tires????

saowin111

since there is some confusion here about tramlining, here's a link that might help - it addresses a few of the conflicting points in the above thread

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/tec...e.jsp?techid=47