swirl flap problems and march's total BMW
02-25-2009, 07:40 AM
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they are small "flaps" inside the inlet manifold that are about 2" x 1" very thin (1mm) thick and (1 in each inlet) are attached by either what looks like small torx screws or pop rivets, they are attached to a rod (4 or 4.5mm thick) and they break and fall down into the inlet resulting in catastrophic engine damage.
they are ment to open and close at low rpm to help the mixture swirl (and so combust) better....but they are a design flaw and the huge suction created in the inlet over time causes them to fail.
and the rest is history.
same as an EGR valve....useless unless your in the green party.
they are ment to open and close at low rpm to help the mixture swirl (and so combust) better....but they are a design flaw and the huge suction created in the inlet over time causes them to fail.
and the rest is history.
same as an EGR valve....useless unless your in the green party.
02-25-2009, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Dave' post='801154' date='Feb 25 2009, 10:50 AM
the company that is making these is called PMW in Essex
www.pmwltd.co.uk
they also recomend turbo oil feed pipe and any breathers be replaced also.
www.pmwltd.co.uk
they also recomend turbo oil feed pipe and any breathers be replaced also.
The price for the 6 bungs to cover the holes is ?90, I enquired last week.
They advised that it was not necesary to remove the new design flaps as they don't fail.
This advice was given in good faith but every owner needs to make their own decision.
Jason
02-25-2009, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jasonprice07' post='801330' date='Feb 25 2009, 03:44 PM
The price for the 6 bungs to cover the holes is ?90, I enquired last week.
They advised that it was not necesary to remove the new design flaps as they don't fail.
This advice was given in good faith but every owner needs to make their own decision.
Jason
They advised that it was not necesary to remove the new design flaps as they don't fail.
This advice was given in good faith but every owner needs to make their own decision.
Jason
on the ramps when i asked about this was a 2005 (55 plate) so had 4.5 bars, with swirl flap failure, out of waranty, negotiating a "good will gesture" as the car had full MDSH ...i will find out what the outcome was/is.
i dont think it had anything to do with the flaps per seh, when i took both mine apart the issue was that the flaps were connected to the bar (by little screws and pop rivets) these were loose (woberly)
02-25-2009, 12:37 PM
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The more I read about these things the more I want to remove them like this weekend, I now have sunday off and I am no longer working. I might make a start on their removal on Saturday with Sunday as a contingency.
I need to clear my garage to make some space though, it would be better working in the garage for this i think.
This weekend to do list:
1. Remove intake flaps
2. Replace oil separator
3. Replace EGR Thermostat
4. Drink beer and watch a DVD
I need to clear my garage to make some space though, it would be better working in the garage for this i think.
This weekend to do list:
1. Remove intake flaps
2. Replace oil separator
3. Replace EGR Thermostat
4. Drink beer and watch a DVD
02-25-2009, 12:39 PM
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Model Year: 2017
Originally Posted by chris f' post='801126' date='Feb 25 2009, 02:04 PM
So what's the ridiculous price charged for the bungs then?
I could probably make them in about an hour on a lathe, not really rocket science but I bet its lunar pricing.
I could probably make them in about an hour on a lathe, not really rocket science but I bet its lunar pricing.
I would hope that the bung isn't just a circular bung - I would want one with the lugs on to screw them up to the manifold. Hence a little more than lathe work involved.
?90 is a bit dear, but probably about right for a low volume manufacture - the guy that is making them won't be on a fiver an hour will he??
For now, I'm happy with the screw replacement for the shaft solution. Less elegant maybe, but it works!!
(And my shafts were 4.5mm on an '04 car. But I now have peace of mind that they won't cause any damage to my engine)
Mike
02-25-2009, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob525D' post='801447' date='Feb 25 2009, 11:37 PM
The more I read about these things the more I want to remove them like this weekend, I now have sunday off and I am no longer working. I might make a start on their removal on Saturday with Sunday as a contingency.
I need to clear my garage to make some space though, it would be better working in the garage for this i think.
This weekend to do list:
1. Remove intake flaps
2. Replace oil separator
3. Replace EGR Thermostat
4. Drink beer and watch a DVD
I need to clear my garage to make some space though, it would be better working in the garage for this i think.
This weekend to do list:
1. Remove intake flaps
2. Replace oil separator
3. Replace EGR Thermostat
4. Drink beer and watch a DVD
Please report in DIY thread after surgery!
02-25-2009, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Dave' post='801132' date='Feb 25 2009, 02:08 PM
thats not quite true, history has shown us that loads of mistakes have been made by over engineering or just trying something to "better emmisions" etc.
look at runflats for example...BMW put those on as standard....and they are pants. just a cost measure.
swirl flaps are not needed...not in other engines and the cars run better without them.
the proofs in the eating....so to speak.
look at runflats for example...BMW put those on as standard....and they are pants. just a cost measure.
swirl flaps are not needed...not in other engines and the cars run better without them.
the proofs in the eating....so to speak.
02-25-2009, 11:25 PM
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would be interesting to see a dyno sheet for with and without swirl flaps, as i would have thought the flaps being closed at low rpm must increase port velocity, maybe hard to feel on the road but perhaps the low end torque is a little down with them removed but not noticable with already having so much torque.
Not that im against there removal !
Not that im against there removal !
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