Steptronic users: How often do you use DS or Manu mode?
11-09-2005, 04:10 AM
#41
Contributors
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Prague, Czech Rep. - Europe
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2004 BMW 530I steptronic, Orient Blue, Dakota Black Leather, Finishers Aluminium with Wave Cutting interior, NAVIgation, Radio PROFESSIONAL, CD in-dash, Hi-Fi extended sound system, PDC system, Bi-Xenons lights with washers, cruise-control, heated seats, Extended AC, auto"shade" mirrors, auto lights sensors, rain/wiper sensor, M-tech leather multifunction steering wheel, side airbags rearseats, sliding armrest, smoker's package (I don't smoke!), velour floor mats, spare wheel and jack, 122 style rims winter setup, M135 style rims summer setup
[color=red]Mods:[/color]
[color=blue]M tech sport steering wheel with M5 SMG paddles working retrofit done !
Trunk lid opening button retrofit done.[/color]
[color=blue]3M window 35% tint done
Chrome grilles
E60.net Clings
[/color]
with my M5 paddles on the wheel I use it all the time except city traffic driving
11-09-2005, 04:43 AM
#42
Contributors
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 6,554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2014 X5 xDrive 5.0 M Package Carbon Black Metallic/2008 M Roadster Imola Red
well imho, if you first were to track the car, you should certainly be able to do better in M mode vs DS mode, as you could hold the gears longer and gain the high end torque power, and why you could get better gas mileage using M over DS is due to the fact that you can manually shift into 6th, but DS will not automatically go to 6th....i agree that you will have more control in manual mode
as for the second point, i personally find m mode very efficient and you have to realize that your step tranny is what they call adaptive and will eventually remember your driving style and act accordingly...i say this from my prior experience with my E46 that i had for 5 1/2 years, you will learn to anticipate your shifts and the 1s time will be reduced further to a quicker change as you use it more,...i definitely drive my tranny more like smg than an auto, but opted not for the smg option due to the unreliability....by using the m mode, you have much greater control of the car in nearly all situation
as for the second point, i personally find m mode very efficient and you have to realize that your step tranny is what they call adaptive and will eventually remember your driving style and act accordingly...i say this from my prior experience with my E46 that i had for 5 1/2 years, you will learn to anticipate your shifts and the 1s time will be reduced further to a quicker change as you use it more,...i definitely drive my tranny more like smg than an auto, but opted not for the smg option due to the unreliability....by using the m mode, you have much greater control of the car in nearly all situation
I really like my steptronic transmission but the philosophy is totally different : you let the machine doing the clutch work for you + the gear change according to maps. These maps are only provided in the full auto modes which are DS and D mode.
Of course, I understand your point about the adaptative behaviour of the box even if I have never read anywhere that an adaptation is possible in the pseudo-manual mode. I have however serious doubt about the implementation of such a function because:
- In full auto, it is conceivable (and written in the tech doc) that an adaptation of the box gearshifts is made according to the driving style due to the fact that the box is responsible for the whole process and "knows" when the clutch has to be relesed and prepares in advance the next gear it has selected.
- In pseudo-manual mode, the clutch cannot be activated when the car "expects" you will gear shift simply because it would cause a standby in the transmission of power. Preparing the next gear is also risky because it may be that for a external reason, you want to down shift instead of upshifting. In this case, it is a loss of time which is even dangerous if you need a prompt reaction...
So, if you have a tech note talking about how the problem is overcome and how -I cite you- the "step tranny is what they call adaptive and will eventually remember your driving style and act accordingly", I'm really intereted but for me still, the pseudo-manual mode is still introducing more contraints without having the possibility of doing the funny stuff you do with a real manual clutch.
I can no longer access the tech note. But, my impression is that two different maps apply to what the note refers to as "sport mode"--which I take to include both DS and manual. For acceleration, the more aggressive map is loaded depending on the extent to which the accelerator pedal is pressed. Here is my summary of the more important points from the tech note. The summary also discusses the adaptation process as it applies to the maps. I am not sure if additional adaptation to the driver is made in the sense, for example, that a Z06 allows "extreme" driver adaptation.
About the consumption, maybe you can have a better number in M than in DS but certainly not as in D. I fully trust the engineers of BMW and I'm sure that their "Extreme Economy" map is well designed and low-consumption oriented.
As mentioned, and as explained above, I am able to get better mileage using manual, with some DS thrown in, than in D.
[/quote]
11-09-2005, 05:20 AM
#43
Members
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by JFiRB' post='194764' date='Nov 7 2005, 02:35 PM
I just realize I have never used either the DS or Manu mode. In the E60's user manual, this in only ONE sentence for the DS mode, "DS mode is for performance-orientated driving style" (Aren't we all performance orientated, or why buy a BMW? 
)
Anyway, how often do you guys use it? When? Is there any pros or cons, if any?
)Anyway, how often do you guys use it? When? Is there any pros or cons, if any?
I use manual mode on the highway constantly. DS does not go into 6th gear on the road. D does not give me the feeling of control over the car I like. Like the feeling of being in charge of the shifting of the gears as in stick shift without having to constantly clutch in traffic when traffic is crawling, just leave it in 2nd or 3rd and you hardly have to touch the brake at all. Like the steady power flow when down shifting to 3rd or 4th also when passing or speeding up without kicking abrubtly into a lower gear
Been looking for a less expensive 2nd car to spare the miles on my 545i, and would not buy one (especially since they have smaller less powerfull engines and would benifit greatly with shiftable auto tranny) unless I get a steptronic type of tranny with it. IT'S A MUST AND MAKES DRIVING INTERESTING AND KEEPS YOU MORE ALERT BEHIND THE WHEEL.
11-09-2005, 06:46 AM
#44
Contributors
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NYC & LI
Posts: 2,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by fred1976' post='195666' date='Nov 9 2005, 08:10 AM
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with certain of these issues.
it appears, tell me if I'm wrong, that in the US, the use of automatic transmission is widespread whereas in Europe, it is the opposite and most of the cars have a Manual transmission, I mean, a real one, with a clutch that the driver has to manoeuver. From the beginning I always drove with a clutch and only with the 535d, I was obliged to accept the use of an automatic transmission because it simply doesn't exist with a manual one.
this may be the case, but there are many who still love clutch driving, i used to but am done with it as the body has paid enuff and unless its a true sports car, i dont see the need...
With a real manual trans, you have to manage the clutch (which is not boring -even fun- except in long traffic jams) but at least there is no additional mecanichal constraints and as soon as you release the clutch, power is transmitted according to the move of your foot.
true, but there is a physical constraint in a manual (your hand/foot coordination and reaction time) as opposed to the mechanical constraint of the software shift in the step and i believe they negate each other from my experience
I really like my steptronic transmission but the philosophy is totally different : you let the machine doing the clutch work for you + the gear change according to maps. These maps are only provided in the full auto modes which are DS and D mode.
yes, the car does the clutching, but that is only part of the mix...using DS/M, you have great control over how the car reacts in both accelerating and decelerating actions, and the car will follow your lead in the gear changes, if you are driving in DS aggressively, the car will hold the gears very high until the next gear should be engaged, if you drive it lightly, the gear shifts will come quicker, so in fact, the movement of just your foot on the gas pedal does offer a great level of control, you just dont need both feet to gain the control as you do in a manual
If I have well understood, the pseudo-manual mode of the auto trans allows you to be responsible for the gear change to the extend you do not cross a "security limit" that would bring you to the red zone or to stall the engine. BUT it still manage the clutch and HERE is a mechanical constraint that you cannot remove compared to the real manual transmission : the clutch has to be open in order to switch the gear and then released. At the time you want to change the gear, you have to wait as a driver, simply because of this physical constraint.
this is a disagreement point from my humble experience....yes the tranny would not allow you to engage a gear that would cause damage, but i see that as a good feature. if you are driving hard in a manual, you can easily cause great damage by missing a gear, aka a money-shift, so this control is great to me...as to the mechanical constraint explained above, again, in my experience, once you learn how the car reacts, you will react accordingly and the shift times between gears will be less than in the true manual tranny...meaning that once you know how the car shifts, you will be able to time perfectly when you should hit the lever to change gears that will effect the perfect up/down shift and it will be executed in a quicker fashion than it would take you in a manual when you have to clutch and shift, there is more of a physical constraint in a true mannny vs a step....
Of course, I understand your point about the adaptative behaviour of the box even if I have never read anywhere that an adaptation is possible in the pseudo-manual mode. I have however serious doubt about the implementation of such a function because:
- In full auto, it is conceivable (and written in the tech doc) that an adaptation of the box gearshifts is made according to the driving style due to the fact that the box is responsible for the whole process and "knows" when the clutch has to be relesed and prepares in advance the next gear it has selected.
- In pseudo-manual mode, the clutch cannot be activated when the car "expects" you will gear shift simply because it would cause a standby in the transmission of power. Preparing the next gear is also risky because it may be that for a external reason, you want to down shift instead of upshifting. In this case, it is a loss of time which is even dangerous if you need a prompt reaction...
So, if you have a tech note talking about how the problem is overcome and how -I cite you- the "step tranny is what they call adaptive and will eventually remember your driving style and act accordingly", I'm really intereted but for me still, the pseudo-manual mode is still introducing more contraints without having the possibility of doing the funny stuff you do with a real manual clutch.
About the consumption, maybe you can have a better number in M than in DS but certainly not as in D. I fully trust the engineers of BMW and I'm sure that their "Extreme Economy" map is well designed and low-consumption oriented.
just read the notes provided in the other thread for the reading materials, and i can confirm, again from 5 1/2 years experience with step trannys that the car does in fact 'adapt' to your driving styles and will act accordingly...i will say that it is quite fun to use the manual mode and feels as real to me as clutching at this point, i control up/down shifts for accelerating and decelerating and use the tranny just as i would in a manual, i just no longer need to use my left foot for clutching
About the torque, it is not a concern for me to use the pseudo-manual mode to get it as I have a diesel which benefit from a maximum torque very rapidly (2k if I well remember) and the torque response curve is almost like a rounded square meaning you get the benefit of a high quantity of torque at very low rpm. I think this actually why BMW do not propose the manual gear box in the 535d (It would simply not be manageable by a common driver).
With a petrol engine, I know it is different but in this case, why not using a real manual gear box with a clutch??? SMG is also much faster than ST...
SMG would have been an option if it was the version that the M5/M6 gets, but the version available to the E60/E63 is not reliable
Have a nice day.
it appears, tell me if I'm wrong, that in the US, the use of automatic transmission is widespread whereas in Europe, it is the opposite and most of the cars have a Manual transmission, I mean, a real one, with a clutch that the driver has to manoeuver. From the beginning I always drove with a clutch and only with the 535d, I was obliged to accept the use of an automatic transmission because it simply doesn't exist with a manual one.
this may be the case, but there are many who still love clutch driving, i used to but am done with it as the body has paid enuff and unless its a true sports car, i dont see the need...
With a real manual trans, you have to manage the clutch (which is not boring -even fun- except in long traffic jams) but at least there is no additional mecanichal constraints and as soon as you release the clutch, power is transmitted according to the move of your foot.
true, but there is a physical constraint in a manual (your hand/foot coordination and reaction time) as opposed to the mechanical constraint of the software shift in the step and i believe they negate each other from my experience
I really like my steptronic transmission but the philosophy is totally different : you let the machine doing the clutch work for you + the gear change according to maps. These maps are only provided in the full auto modes which are DS and D mode.
yes, the car does the clutching, but that is only part of the mix...using DS/M, you have great control over how the car reacts in both accelerating and decelerating actions, and the car will follow your lead in the gear changes, if you are driving in DS aggressively, the car will hold the gears very high until the next gear should be engaged, if you drive it lightly, the gear shifts will come quicker, so in fact, the movement of just your foot on the gas pedal does offer a great level of control, you just dont need both feet to gain the control as you do in a manual
If I have well understood, the pseudo-manual mode of the auto trans allows you to be responsible for the gear change to the extend you do not cross a "security limit" that would bring you to the red zone or to stall the engine. BUT it still manage the clutch and HERE is a mechanical constraint that you cannot remove compared to the real manual transmission : the clutch has to be open in order to switch the gear and then released. At the time you want to change the gear, you have to wait as a driver, simply because of this physical constraint.
this is a disagreement point from my humble experience....yes the tranny would not allow you to engage a gear that would cause damage, but i see that as a good feature. if you are driving hard in a manual, you can easily cause great damage by missing a gear, aka a money-shift, so this control is great to me...as to the mechanical constraint explained above, again, in my experience, once you learn how the car reacts, you will react accordingly and the shift times between gears will be less than in the true manual tranny...meaning that once you know how the car shifts, you will be able to time perfectly when you should hit the lever to change gears that will effect the perfect up/down shift and it will be executed in a quicker fashion than it would take you in a manual when you have to clutch and shift, there is more of a physical constraint in a true mannny vs a step....
Of course, I understand your point about the adaptative behaviour of the box even if I have never read anywhere that an adaptation is possible in the pseudo-manual mode. I have however serious doubt about the implementation of such a function because:
- In full auto, it is conceivable (and written in the tech doc) that an adaptation of the box gearshifts is made according to the driving style due to the fact that the box is responsible for the whole process and "knows" when the clutch has to be relesed and prepares in advance the next gear it has selected.
- In pseudo-manual mode, the clutch cannot be activated when the car "expects" you will gear shift simply because it would cause a standby in the transmission of power. Preparing the next gear is also risky because it may be that for a external reason, you want to down shift instead of upshifting. In this case, it is a loss of time which is even dangerous if you need a prompt reaction...
So, if you have a tech note talking about how the problem is overcome and how -I cite you- the "step tranny is what they call adaptive and will eventually remember your driving style and act accordingly", I'm really intereted but for me still, the pseudo-manual mode is still introducing more contraints without having the possibility of doing the funny stuff you do with a real manual clutch.
About the consumption, maybe you can have a better number in M than in DS but certainly not as in D. I fully trust the engineers of BMW and I'm sure that their "Extreme Economy" map is well designed and low-consumption oriented.
just read the notes provided in the other thread for the reading materials, and i can confirm, again from 5 1/2 years experience with step trannys that the car does in fact 'adapt' to your driving styles and will act accordingly...i will say that it is quite fun to use the manual mode and feels as real to me as clutching at this point, i control up/down shifts for accelerating and decelerating and use the tranny just as i would in a manual, i just no longer need to use my left foot for clutching
About the torque, it is not a concern for me to use the pseudo-manual mode to get it as I have a diesel which benefit from a maximum torque very rapidly (2k if I well remember) and the torque response curve is almost like a rounded square meaning you get the benefit of a high quantity of torque at very low rpm. I think this actually why BMW do not propose the manual gear box in the 535d (It would simply not be manageable by a common driver).
With a petrol engine, I know it is different but in this case, why not using a real manual gear box with a clutch??? SMG is also much faster than ST...
SMG would have been an option if it was the version that the M5/M6 gets, but the version available to the E60/E63 is not reliable
Have a nice day.
11-10-2005, 04:30 AM
#45
Members
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: France
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 535d
Hi donv and M630,
I think I understood where the problem is. You consider the because it is written for ergonomic reason M/DS on the lever, the M is an extension of the DS full auto mode.
From the reading of the document that you really well summarised donv (http://forums.e60.net/index.php?act=...md=si&img=2002), it is clear on page 8 that the modes DS and M are totally independent. In DS, a map is governing the gear shifts. In M, you have a Steptronic Manual mode which let you decide when you want to gearshift, only empeaching you, as 630 said, to make mistakes. I don't know for you, but I can confirm (tested that today) that when I go in M mode and if I do nothing, the next gear is switched when my rev counter almost touch the white lines before the red zone and the gear before when the rev is so low that the engine would stall. THERE IS NO MAP FOLLOWED IN THIS CASE, at the best, we can call these, thresholds.
The document in question clearly states in page 5, lines 3 and 4 that the adaptation is performed for the confort and sport modes but never mentions the manual steptronic mode. I'm lost, so thanks to indicate me clear references in the doc or somewhere else where you have read that, that unambiguously shows that an adaptation is possible in Manual steptronic because even if I'm willing to beleive you 630, and your experience, I still have no tangible reference, either from the test made today, nor from the document cited, that this adaptation exists... Sorry to insist on this but this interest me highly in fact, especially if I missed a line in the doc (as a non-native english speaker) or another doc.
About the differences between a clutch-manual GB and the Steptronic in Manual mode 630, I just notice, and this is actually the point, that you mention "once you learn how the car reacts...". This is for me the best proof that you have to adapt yourself to a process instead of controlling directly a process in the most straightforward way. More or less you say that you have to anticipate when you will shift and actually shift one second before!
To be honest, I'm really fond of the GB in full auto but I still don't see a valid reason to be bored with this anticipated shifting which are absolutely not natural. The only thing I find great and that I discovered and tried today after having re-read the document is the use of the Gear storing function, which allow you to predefine the gear you want to reach and then, you accelerate from 0 and it shifts up as soon as the engine parameters are the best, therefore reaching the desired gear in the most straightforward way. But again, it is approaching a full auto mode.
CU
PS: In the last manual GB, it is almost impossible to go from 5th to 2nd (common mistake of beginners, that you mentionned and which may produce failure of the gearbox) when having a to high speed due to mechanical protection which make difficult to engage the 2nd gear.
PS2: I think, as a conclusion of our discussion, that it could be nice to make a 1 km starting stopped with to similar E60 having respectively a manual GB and a Steptronic in Manual mode. The result would be interesting I suppose. <_<
I think I understood where the problem is. You consider the because it is written for ergonomic reason M/DS on the lever, the M is an extension of the DS full auto mode.
From the reading of the document that you really well summarised donv (http://forums.e60.net/index.php?act=...md=si&img=2002), it is clear on page 8 that the modes DS and M are totally independent. In DS, a map is governing the gear shifts. In M, you have a Steptronic Manual mode which let you decide when you want to gearshift, only empeaching you, as 630 said, to make mistakes. I don't know for you, but I can confirm (tested that today) that when I go in M mode and if I do nothing, the next gear is switched when my rev counter almost touch the white lines before the red zone and the gear before when the rev is so low that the engine would stall. THERE IS NO MAP FOLLOWED IN THIS CASE, at the best, we can call these, thresholds.
The document in question clearly states in page 5, lines 3 and 4 that the adaptation is performed for the confort and sport modes but never mentions the manual steptronic mode. I'm lost, so thanks to indicate me clear references in the doc or somewhere else where you have read that, that unambiguously shows that an adaptation is possible in Manual steptronic because even if I'm willing to beleive you 630, and your experience, I still have no tangible reference, either from the test made today, nor from the document cited, that this adaptation exists... Sorry to insist on this but this interest me highly in fact, especially if I missed a line in the doc (as a non-native english speaker) or another doc.
About the differences between a clutch-manual GB and the Steptronic in Manual mode 630, I just notice, and this is actually the point, that you mention "once you learn how the car reacts...". This is for me the best proof that you have to adapt yourself to a process instead of controlling directly a process in the most straightforward way. More or less you say that you have to anticipate when you will shift and actually shift one second before!
To be honest, I'm really fond of the GB in full auto but I still don't see a valid reason to be bored with this anticipated shifting which are absolutely not natural. The only thing I find great and that I discovered and tried today after having re-read the document is the use of the Gear storing function, which allow you to predefine the gear you want to reach and then, you accelerate from 0 and it shifts up as soon as the engine parameters are the best, therefore reaching the desired gear in the most straightforward way. But again, it is approaching a full auto mode.
CU
PS: In the last manual GB, it is almost impossible to go from 5th to 2nd (common mistake of beginners, that you mentionned and which may produce failure of the gearbox) when having a to high speed due to mechanical protection which make difficult to engage the 2nd gear.
PS2: I think, as a conclusion of our discussion, that it could be nice to make a 1 km starting stopped with to similar E60 having respectively a manual GB and a Steptronic in Manual mode. The result would be interesting I suppose. <_<
11-10-2005, 07:25 AM
#46
Contributors
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 6,554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2014 X5 xDrive 5.0 M Package Carbon Black Metallic/2008 M Roadster Imola Red
Hi Fred:
I didn't realize I was discussing the Step with you. I assume you are out of harms way in your town. I understand what you are saying about a reference. I am unable to access the document any more, but I have it printed at home. I'll look at it tonight and try to provide the reason for my claim or, perhaps, inference.
Best to you, and CU too.
donv
I didn't realize I was discussing the Step with you. I assume you are out of harms way in your town. I understand what you are saying about a reference. I am unable to access the document any more, but I have it printed at home. I'll look at it tonight and try to provide the reason for my claim or, perhaps, inference.
Best to you, and CU too.
donv
11-10-2005, 11:52 AM
#47
Contributors
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 6,554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2014 X5 xDrive 5.0 M Package Carbon Black Metallic/2008 M Roadster Imola Red
Originally Posted by donv' post='196236' date='Nov 10 2005, 11:25 AM
Hi Fred:
I didn't realize I was discussing the Step with you. I assume you are out of harms way in your town. I understand what you are saying about a reference. I am unable to access the document any more, but I have it printed at home. I'll look at it tonight and try to provide the reason for my claim or, perhaps, inference.
Best to you, and CU too.
donv
I didn't realize I was discussing the Step with you. I assume you are out of harms way in your town. I understand what you are saying about a reference. I am unable to access the document any more, but I have it printed at home. I'll look at it tonight and try to provide the reason for my claim or, perhaps, inference.
Best to you, and CU too.
donv
Fred, I now remember why I chose to believe that the S and XS maps apply to manual shifting as well as DS shifting. First, there is no logical reason why they would not apply to both. i.e., Why would BMW have two maps available and not make them available when shifting manually?
As an aside, suppose that both maps are not available for manual shifting. If not, then I would presume that the more aggresive map would be made available for manual shifting since this mode is the most performance-oriented shift-mode available.
My second reason is that the document does not actually refer to DS mode. It refers only to the sport program and to M/S rather than DS. My evidence is not the greatest, but I think all things said my conclusion is reasonable.
Fred, are you a professor or a scientist? Your thought processes imply "yes."
Best regards,
donv
11-11-2005, 04:17 AM
#48
Members
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
60% D
40% M
I see no point in DS on the diesiel, it just makes the engine scream and misses all the low end torque.
Manual mode gives more control for driving on twisty roads and avoids gear changes at excately the wrong time.
On motorways D mode is terrible, say cruise is set at 75, drop out for a few secs, engage cruise recall, engine kicks down a few gears and rudely wakes up the wife
on motorways I probably drive in M mode 90% of time now.
40% M
I see no point in DS on the diesiel, it just makes the engine scream and misses all the low end torque.
Manual mode gives more control for driving on twisty roads and avoids gear changes at excately the wrong time.
On motorways D mode is terrible, say cruise is set at 75, drop out for a few secs, engage cruise recall, engine kicks down a few gears and rudely wakes up the wife
on motorways I probably drive in M mode 90% of time now.
11-11-2005, 04:45 PM
#49
Members
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by rodneyremington' post='194805' date='Nov 7 2005, 04:47 PM
Manual shift--almost never. What's the point?
DS-- freeway onramps and passing, and when I feel like a
with a 545i, any mode is fast mode
DS-- freeway onramps and passing, and when I feel like a
with a 545i, any mode is fast mode
[/quote]
An experience track driver could definitely drive around a track faster in manual mode vs. DS. With manual you can downshift at the correct time while braking in the corner and not when the computer feels like it.
Not so sure on gas mileage. I've found I do better mileage in DS but many because I tend to drive more aggressively in manual mode.
- Sean
11-12-2005, 08:17 AM
#50
Contributors
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 6,554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2014 X5 xDrive 5.0 M Package Carbon Black Metallic/2008 M Roadster Imola Red
Hi Fred:
I didn't realize I was discussing the Step with you. I assume you are out of harms way in your town. I understand what you are saying about a reference. I am unable to access the document any more, but I have it printed at home. I'll look at it tonight and try to provide the reason for my claim or, perhaps, inference.
Best to you, and CU too.
donv
I didn't realize I was discussing the Step with you. I assume you are out of harms way in your town. I understand what you are saying about a reference. I am unable to access the document any more, but I have it printed at home. I'll look at it tonight and try to provide the reason for my claim or, perhaps, inference.
Best to you, and CU too.
donv
Fred, I now remember why I chose to believe that the S and XS maps apply to manual shifting as well as DS shifting. First, there is no logical reason why they would not apply to both. i.e., Why would BMW have two maps available and not make them available when shifting manually?
As an aside, suppose that both maps are not available for manual shifting. If not, then I would presume that the more aggresive map would be made available for manual shifting since this mode is the most performance-oriented shift-mode available.
My second reason is that the document does not actually refer to DS mode. It refers only to the sport program and to M/S rather than DS. My evidence is not the greatest, but I think all things said my conclusion is reasonable.
Fred, are you a professor or a scientist? Your thought processes imply "yes."
Best regards,
donv
[/quote]
Fred. Where did you go?