Speeding in the US
02-20-2007, 08:48 PM
#31
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Makes you wonder why we are not all Prius owners 
, most e60's and in fact most other cars will exceed 100mph easily, with new emissions laws being touted to european car makers and due to take effect in the coming years, it lends weight to a car with a top speed of say 80mph but with a stupidly low 0-60 time... of course these vehicles will be hybrids with 2 stroke deisil lumps coupled to a boot (trunk) load of batteries... your engine mods of the future will revolve around lithium cells and boring your 2 stroke out to a full 0.5 ltrs from the standard 0.33 you'd get from the factory ... G's i talk a load of shit sometimes hehe (ok most of the time) BUT seriously fellow petrolheads just be happy you have lived in this wonderful era where 150mph and more is well within the reach of the average person .... Oh and if you really feel the need to blow off some cobwebs, book a track day, they rock and they don't have officers of the law in attendance unless of course they are there for fun 
, most e60's and in fact most other cars will exceed 100mph easily, with new emissions laws being touted to european car makers and due to take effect in the coming years, it lends weight to a car with a top speed of say 80mph but with a stupidly low 0-60 time... of course these vehicles will be hybrids with 2 stroke deisil lumps coupled to a boot (trunk) load of batteries... your engine mods of the future will revolve around lithium cells and boring your 2 stroke out to a full 0.5 ltrs from the standard 0.33 you'd get from the factory ... G's i talk a load of shit sometimes hehe (ok most of the time) BUT seriously fellow petrolheads just be happy you have lived in this wonderful era where 150mph and more is well within the reach of the average person .... Oh and if you really feel the need to blow off some cobwebs, book a track day, they rock and they don't have officers of the law in attendance unless of course they are there for fun
02-20-2007, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Road Runner' post='393668' date='Feb 20 2007, 05:02 PM
NeRwEEzy,
What's the code number exactly that you are referring to? I've never heard of that and I have researched driving laws in CA.
Destiny,
Here's what I can tell you - based on the California Vehicle Code - of which sections I shall note in this post. If anyone says anything different, ask them to tell you what CA Code (or Vehicle Code) section the law they are citing refers to.
Note that CA vehicle law in general is very confusing.
- First off, <100 mph is just speeding. Fine only. No biggie.
- Second, >=100 mph gets you into the realm of here is your prize: (CA Code Section 22348 sub paragraph b)
- court can impose 30 day suspension for 1st offense, 60 days for 2nd, 6 months for 3rd+ (per code 13200.5)
- max. $500 fine (1st offense)
- 2nd offense within 3 years = up to $750 fine + license suspension per code 13355(a)
- 3rd+ offense within 5 years = fine up to $1000 + licsnse suspension per code 13355(b)
- Third, many states have Reckless Driving statutes tied to speed (i.e. speeding of +XX = reckless). Fortunately (or not), California's reckless driving statute is quite vague. It defines reckless driving as "wanton or willful disregard". The catch is that if you're charged with reckless driving (RD), you face a combination of a fine $220 - $1,000 AND/OR imprisonment of 5 days (minimum) to 6 months. It's up to da judge to decide what your penalty is.
- Fourth, in the U.S. traffic violations are divided into two legal categories - "infractions" and "criminal." There is a very important distinction between them. Of course (gotta love the U.S.), each state draws the line between the two at a different point. But the bottom line is that an "infraction" is a civil penalty. i.e., no jail time possible. You may be assessed "points" against your driving record, but you cannot go to jail. A "criminal" offense, on the other hand, means there is the possibility of jail time.
- Now, one reason this is an important distinction is that in a criminal case, it is more difficult for the prosecution to prove that you should be punished. They must prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that you are a sinner. In a civil proceeding, the prosecution only need prove there is a "preponderance" of evidence. That's like the difference between a 90% chance of rain and a 50% chance of rain in the weather forecast. In one case it seems a virtual certainty, in the other it is less clear but you go with your gut feeling.
- So, from the standpoint of the State Revenue Collection System (oops... I meant public safety and all that), it's going to cost the State a lot more to convict you of a criminal offense versus a civil offense. For example, in a criminal proceeding you can request a jury trial. That means major $. The State has to pay the jurors, they have to pay the court reporter, the judge, the bailiff, pay the police officer overtime to show up in court, the electricity, the janitor at the court, etc. etc. If you're charged with a civil fine and just pay up and forget about it, this is a much better margin for the Money Suckers than if you exercise your Constitutional Rights and demand a jury trial. Now, truth be told these folks are not dumb. They know a lot of people who drive are dumb though and may of them can't afford a lawyer. Oh, but wait there's that Constitution thing again. See, in a criminal case you can make them appoint a lawyer for you for free (if you can't afford it... then you have the fact you are getting the lowest paid lawyer in the universe working for you - do you really want that?).
That's my $0.02. I have cited the CA code above. If someone ranting about a new law would be kind enough to site specific information relating to the CA Code / CA Vehicle Code, I'll listen. Otherwise, my suspicion is that some jurisdictions are trying to rattle folks cages by tossing out the RD code section 23103 (jail +/or $).
Now, all that aside, my disclaimer is that I don't live in CA (though I love to visit).
So, maybe I missed the latest episode of Dateline where there was some mention of this. It's also possible that my info on the CA Code is not up to date in this regard. Again, if someone would enlighten me then I would be most appreciative. Thanks.
Cheers.
RR
What's the code number exactly that you are referring to? I've never heard of that and I have researched driving laws in CA.
Destiny,
Here's what I can tell you - based on the California Vehicle Code - of which sections I shall note in this post. If anyone says anything different, ask them to tell you what CA Code (or Vehicle Code) section the law they are citing refers to.
Note that CA vehicle law in general is very confusing.
- First off, <100 mph is just speeding. Fine only. No biggie.
- Second, >=100 mph gets you into the realm of here is your prize: (CA Code Section 22348 sub paragraph b)
- court can impose 30 day suspension for 1st offense, 60 days for 2nd, 6 months for 3rd+ (per code 13200.5)
- max. $500 fine (1st offense)
- 2nd offense within 3 years = up to $750 fine + license suspension per code 13355(a)
- 3rd+ offense within 5 years = fine up to $1000 + licsnse suspension per code 13355(b)
- Third, many states have Reckless Driving statutes tied to speed (i.e. speeding of +XX = reckless). Fortunately (or not), California's reckless driving statute is quite vague. It defines reckless driving as "wanton or willful disregard". The catch is that if you're charged with reckless driving (RD), you face a combination of a fine $220 - $1,000 AND/OR imprisonment of 5 days (minimum) to 6 months. It's up to da judge to decide what your penalty is.
- Fourth, in the U.S. traffic violations are divided into two legal categories - "infractions" and "criminal." There is a very important distinction between them. Of course (gotta love the U.S.), each state draws the line between the two at a different point. But the bottom line is that an "infraction" is a civil penalty. i.e., no jail time possible. You may be assessed "points" against your driving record, but you cannot go to jail. A "criminal" offense, on the other hand, means there is the possibility of jail time.
- Now, one reason this is an important distinction is that in a criminal case, it is more difficult for the prosecution to prove that you should be punished. They must prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that you are a sinner. In a civil proceeding, the prosecution only need prove there is a "preponderance" of evidence. That's like the difference between a 90% chance of rain and a 50% chance of rain in the weather forecast. In one case it seems a virtual certainty, in the other it is less clear but you go with your gut feeling.
- So, from the standpoint of the State Revenue Collection System (oops... I meant public safety and all that), it's going to cost the State a lot more to convict you of a criminal offense versus a civil offense. For example, in a criminal proceeding you can request a jury trial. That means major $. The State has to pay the jurors, they have to pay the court reporter, the judge, the bailiff, pay the police officer overtime to show up in court, the electricity, the janitor at the court, etc. etc. If you're charged with a civil fine and just pay up and forget about it, this is a much better margin for the Money Suckers than if you exercise your Constitutional Rights and demand a jury trial. Now, truth be told these folks are not dumb. They know a lot of people who drive are dumb though and may of them can't afford a lawyer. Oh, but wait there's that Constitution thing again. See, in a criminal case you can make them appoint a lawyer for you for free (if you can't afford it... then you have the fact you are getting the lowest paid lawyer in the universe working for you - do you really want that?).
That's my $0.02. I have cited the CA code above. If someone ranting about a new law would be kind enough to site specific information relating to the CA Code / CA Vehicle Code, I'll listen. Otherwise, my suspicion is that some jurisdictions are trying to rattle folks cages by tossing out the RD code section 23103 (jail +/or $).
Now, all that aside, my disclaimer is that I don't live in CA (though I love to visit).
So, maybe I missed the latest episode of Dateline where there was some mention of this. It's also possible that my info on the CA Code is not up to date in this regard. Again, if someone would enlighten me then I would be most appreciative. Thanks. Cheers.
RR
i dont know the code number or anything. im not really sure about it myself. its just that a close family friend is a cop and emailed all relatives about new laws and that was one of them.. he's a cop so i believed him of course haha.
02-22-2007, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Road Runner' post='393710' date='Feb 20 2007, 09:36 PM
Sergey,
I totally agree with you. Just FYI, in Connecticut... get this.... If you pay the fine (and plead guilty), you get no points on your license! If you fight the ticket and lose in court, you get a fine + points! How messed up is that? I can hear the cash registers ringing at the courthouse... cha ching.
Another funny example of how wacko this whole system is in the states... if you are caught speeding in New Mexico, if you're 2 miles our more outside of an incorporated city/town, no points. Inside that 2 mile radius, points + fine. Again, wacko.
At least there is some semblance of common sense. Take those examples versus VA where I live. If you're 20+ in VA or driving >=80 mph, you can be ticketed with Reckless Driving. Yet, the max. PSL is 65 mph. 65+20 = 85 last time I checked. And if you're speeding in a 35 MPH PSL zone, you have to be going 60 MPH or higher to get a RD ticket. Gee, let's see that's 60 - 35 = +25 over the PSL? WTF????
That particular provision of the RD statute in VA is - IMHO - a violation of the defendant's 14th amendment (equal protection clause), because someone accused of the same crime - speeding XX miles over the limit - is treated differently in different circumstances. How is it that +15 over the PSL in a 65 mph zone is equal to +25 over PSL in a 35 zone is equal to +20 over PSL in every other zone? What a bunch of BS.
But then, that is Virginia for you. VA is for Bull$hit. (versus official state logo - VA is for Lovers, for those of you not familiar with it - G_d I hate those bumper stickers).
BTW, I am working on a state by state guide for these silly, ridiculous, and (sometimes) downright stupid laws throughout the U.S. I shall post it as soon as I'm done. It will be a compilation of all states showing speeding statutes and penalties, RD laws where applicable, and any other pertinent BS. My intention is to provide a guide for travelers. So, for instance, if you decide you want to avoid driving through VA (which I recommend everyone avoid this - especially I-85 where the VA State PO-Lease like to harass folks passing through).
RR
I totally agree with you. Just FYI, in Connecticut... get this.... If you pay the fine (and plead guilty), you get no points on your license! If you fight the ticket and lose in court, you get a fine + points! How messed up is that? I can hear the cash registers ringing at the courthouse... cha ching.
Another funny example of how wacko this whole system is in the states... if you are caught speeding in New Mexico, if you're 2 miles our more outside of an incorporated city/town, no points. Inside that 2 mile radius, points + fine. Again, wacko.
At least there is some semblance of common sense. Take those examples versus VA where I live. If you're 20+ in VA or driving >=80 mph, you can be ticketed with Reckless Driving. Yet, the max. PSL is 65 mph. 65+20 = 85 last time I checked. And if you're speeding in a 35 MPH PSL zone, you have to be going 60 MPH or higher to get a RD ticket. Gee, let's see that's 60 - 35 = +25 over the PSL? WTF????
That particular provision of the RD statute in VA is - IMHO - a violation of the defendant's 14th amendment (equal protection clause), because someone accused of the same crime - speeding XX miles over the limit - is treated differently in different circumstances. How is it that +15 over the PSL in a 65 mph zone is equal to +25 over PSL in a 35 zone is equal to +20 over PSL in every other zone? What a bunch of BS.
But then, that is Virginia for you. VA is for Bull$hit.
(versus official state logo - VA is for Lovers, for those of you not familiar with it - G_d I hate those bumper stickers).BTW, I am working on a state by state guide for these silly, ridiculous, and (sometimes) downright stupid laws throughout the U.S. I shall post it as soon as I'm done. It will be a compilation of all states showing speeding statutes and penalties, RD laws where applicable, and any other pertinent BS. My intention is to provide a guide for travelers. So, for instance, if you decide you want to avoid driving through VA (which I recommend everyone avoid this - especially I-85 where the VA State PO-Lease like to harass folks passing through).
RR
And I thought MD was bad!
02-22-2007, 05:16 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by NeRwEEzy' post='393770' date='Feb 21 2007, 01:16 AM
i dont know the code number or anything. im not really sure about it myself. its just that a close family friend is a cop and emailed all relatives about new laws and that was one of them.. he's a cop so i believed him of course haha.
In certain localities - in particular I know this is true of northeastern Virginia and around Richmond (the capital, in the center of the state), if you are caught speeding 90+ mph and ticketed for Reckless Driving (which in VA you can be for going anything 80+, in addition to about 12 other items... it's up to the LEO), then the judges will typically fine you plus throw you in jail for one day per mph over 90. So, for example, if you're nabbed at 100 then expect 10 days in jail (plus a fine).
Here's my rule of thumb for court. If it's a traffic "infraction" (and presuming your driving record is not already in the crapper), do your homework and rep yourself. Just remember you are generally fighting a civil case and not a criminal case. Big difference.
However, if you're charged with a "criminal" offense, first do you homework. Is jail time on the table? If so, then do yourself a favor and hire a lawyer. Can't afford one? Then force the court to appoint one. They must. It is your right under the U.S. Constitution. Still, do your homework. 90% (or more) of traffic attorneys don't know squat about state and federal law governing traffic citations and criminal acts related to driving and vehicular violations. Or perhaps they knew at one time or do know now, but they don't care. That's because 99.9% of the general population is ignorant to begin with, and how does any attorney make money? By charging you for their time and/or service(s). Like any intelligent business person, they want to maximize their profit for the least amount of time. It's much easier for an attorney to help you plea bargain a lesser charge than for them to actually rep you and force the prosecution to present a case. Same game for the prosecutor and the court. Let's face it. It's a business, and a cash cow at that. If you actually want a real court hearing then you are - in the eyes of most courts - costing them money, which they don't want. You are lowering their margins. Sorry, I'll get off the soapbox now before I go too far off-topic. It's just that if more people would actually exercise their Constitutional rights once in awhile, we'd have fewer situations like this to begin with. Alas, we are a nation of sheep.
A side note to this is that since you will (generally speaking) be released on your own recognizance if given an RD ticket in VA, if you're from out of state you could always not show up in court. Just make sure you never drive through VA again. That being said, a reckless driving charge in VA is a class 1 misdemeanor, so it's possible that the court system might attempt to have you arrested in your home state and extradited to VA. It's unclear to me what the legal ramifications would be, especially if your state has a different view of the same offense and also how close your state is. For instance, if you live in Colorado then you probably don't have much to worry about (but I dunno - you might - could be a slow revenue month for the court)! Versus if you're from Maryland, West VA, or North Carolina then you're probably screwed because they're right next door.
My point is - avoid driving through Virginia if you can! Besides, our roads suck and so does our wine!
RR
02-22-2007, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Iceman' post='392670' date='Feb 17 2007, 05:58 PM
They have it over here. You are lucky in the US, trust me!
They measure with light, Koax cables, video cameras and other stuff...
The use of radar is rare over here!
What about the GPS devices? I know they are popular in the UK (and starting to infiltrate the US market).
RR
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