SMG Gone?
08-30-2005, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerF4i' date='Aug 30 2005, 10:46 AM
If BMW discontinues SMG on the 5'er, what would that do to the resale value for the current SMG equiped cars?? Would this lower the resale because this proves that SMG is an obsolete technology, or simply that the market place is not ready for this technology.? Either way it is corrosive to the SMG's resale.? People would also be fearful that the replacement parts would not be readily available in the future.? Thus avoiding an used 5'er with SMG.
On the other hand, would there be enough SMG aficionados, whom missed out on getting an SMG cars while it was offered, bid up the prices of used 5'er with SMG?? Simply because of its limited supply?
On the other hand, would there be enough SMG aficionados, whom missed out on getting an SMG cars while it was offered, bid up the prices of used 5'er with SMG?? Simply because of its limited supply?
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The stuff I've seen on the DSG transmission seems to indicate that it really is the future. The SMG may be more exotic and more like a Ferrari or race car, but ultimately the DSG concept will win out.
This link is a really good explanation of what DSG is:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...9&page_number=1
08-30-2005, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by UUronL' date='Aug 30 2005, 01:15 PM
Not trolling here, but SMG resale for the M3 is significantly lower than manual shift M3s.? I haven't seen enough E60 SMGs on the used market to make a determination.? I think that the tales of swapped gearboxes and such is the cause.
The stuff I've seen on the DSG transmission seems to indicate that it really is the future.? The SMG may be more exotic and more like a Ferrari or race car, but ultimately the DSG concept will win out.
This link is a really good explanation of what DSG is:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...9&page_number=1
The stuff I've seen on the DSG transmission seems to indicate that it really is the future.? The SMG may be more exotic and more like a Ferrari or race car, but ultimately the DSG concept will win out.
This link is a really good explanation of what DSG is:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...9&page_number=1
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08-30-2005, 04:11 PM
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The DSG concept tries to be too much like an automatic. It upshifts as you get near redline even if you don't want to, it pre-selects to the anticipated next gear but that does not mean its the gear you wanted. I read that if you approach a turn aggressively and come off the gas to hold the turn and be on the cam when you exit, it upshifts when it should not.
Now this is what I have read in the Mags, most of which were not kind to the SMG either. But I rather have a trans that I control, and I don't care that it is not as smooth shifting as a DSG or automatic.
Now this is what I have read in the Mags, most of which were not kind to the SMG either. But I rather have a trans that I control, and I don't care that it is not as smooth shifting as a DSG or automatic.
08-30-2005, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by UUronL' date='Aug 30 2005, 01:15 PM
[quote name='speedracerF4i' date='Aug 30 2005, 10:46 AM']If BMW discontinues SMG on the 5'er, what would that do to the resale value for the current SMG equiped cars?? Would this lower the resale because this proves that SMG is an obsolete technology, or simply that the market place is not ready for this technology.? Either way it is corrosive to the SMG's resale.? People would also be fearful that the replacement parts would not be readily available in the future.? Thus avoiding an used 5'er with SMG.
On the other hand, would there be enough SMG aficionados, whom missed out on getting an SMG cars while it was offered, bid up the prices of used 5'er with SMG?? Simply because of its limited supply?
On the other hand, would there be enough SMG aficionados, whom missed out on getting an SMG cars while it was offered, bid up the prices of used 5'er with SMG?? Simply because of its limited supply?
[snapback]165102[/snapback]
The stuff I've seen on the DSG transmission seems to indicate that it really is the future. The SMG may be more exotic and more like a Ferrari or race car, but ultimately the DSG concept will win out.
This link is a really good explanation of what DSG is:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...9&page_number=1
[snapback]165241[/snapback]
[/quote]The DSG-like trans (actually first developed for racing by Porsche years ago, and used in the new Porsche RS Spyder for LMP2) seems to be the future. The next Porsche Turbo (likely within a year) with offer it, Audi has had it available for some time, and BMW is also developing one (called ZSG, I believe). Its shifts are very, very quick, and super smooth, and the complaints with regard to the Audi version can easily be addressed via software mods. Like SMG, it is a sequential manual trans, so you can only up- or down-shift one gear at a time, but how many times have you actually skipped gears when shifting?
08-30-2005, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by stream' date='Aug 30 2005, 07:26 PM
[quote name='UUronL' date='Aug 30 2005, 01:15 PM'][quote name='speedracerF4i' date='Aug 30 2005, 10:46 AM']If BMW discontinues SMG on the 5'er, what would that do to the resale value for the current SMG equiped cars?? Would this lower the resale because this proves that SMG is an obsolete technology, or simply that the market place is not ready for this technology.? Either way it is corrosive to the SMG's resale.? People would also be fearful that the replacement parts would not be readily available in the future.? Thus avoiding an used 5'er with SMG.
On the other hand, would there be enough SMG aficionados, whom missed out on getting an SMG cars while it was offered, bid up the prices of used 5'er with SMG?? Simply because of its limited supply?
On the other hand, would there be enough SMG aficionados, whom missed out on getting an SMG cars while it was offered, bid up the prices of used 5'er with SMG?? Simply because of its limited supply?
[snapback]165102[/snapback]
The stuff I've seen on the DSG transmission seems to indicate that it really is the future. The SMG may be more exotic and more like a Ferrari or race car, but ultimately the DSG concept will win out.
This link is a really good explanation of what DSG is:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...9&page_number=1
[snapback]165241[/snapback]
[/quote]The DSG-like trans (actually first developed for racing by Porsche years ago, and used in the new Porsche RS Spyder for LMP2) seems to be the future. The next Porsche Turbo (likely within a year) with offer it, Audi has had it available for some time, and BMW is also developing one (called ZSG, I believe). Its shifts are very, very quick, and super smooth, and the complaints with regard to the Audi version can easily be addressed via software mods. Like SMG, it is a sequential manual trans, so you can only up- or down-shift one gear at a time, but how many times have you actually skipped gears when shifting?
[snapback]165367[/snapback]
[/quote]Right. All the Audi-specific nannyisms probably won't find their way into a BMW DSG. It's just a dual clutch seq. manual. The only possible negative is that during downshifts, each intermediate gear will be briefly engaged between the high gear and the low gear that is chosen. I think this will actually probably sound pretty cool so I'm not going to count it against the DSG concept.
08-30-2005, 06:16 PM
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Does anyone have the sales figures for SMG vs. manual? My guess is that these 2 transmissions are splitting a tiny percentage of 5 series sales, and there's no economic justification to keep offering both.
Selfishly, I'm glad they're keeping the manual...
Selfishly, I'm glad they're keeping the manual...
08-30-2005, 06:43 PM
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i may not help much but i just checked kbb. i'm using a '04 545 with the same options and mileage but different tranmissions to do a comparison. the resale values for the three are the same.
08-30-2005, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by stream' date='Aug 30 2005, 08:26 PM
Like SMG, it is a sequential manual trans, so you can only up- or down-shift one gear at a time, but how many times have you actually skipped gears when shifting?
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You need to spend some time with SMG to see what I'm talking about...or, if you prefer, watch an F1 or Champ Car race and listen to how fast they downshift through the gears while braking before turning in. With SMG, you can click down two or more gears and there's no delay while the transmission is engaging the skipped gears. DSG better be mighty quick to duplicate that condition...