formuleuno

+1, well put.

I used to work in GM powertrain as an intern a few years ago, and you will find GM parts in some of the BMW transmissions. We always had a few 3 series around for durability purposes.

And as some of the above posters have mentioned...The new CTS/CTS-V is leaps and bounds improved from its predecessors. Its interior has improved the most and especially in the seating department and the whole package flows a lot better and is not as Walmart looking as the previous version was. I think that it will make a lot of people think twice before they buy another car, where before that would have NEVER happened. Even if you only get a few of those people to buy the car, you have achieved success.

seoulman

Very true!

So... should we expect to see a ZR-1 Corvette replace your Porsche 911 Carrera S in the near future? Perhaps a Cadillac CTS-V to go along with it in the garage?

EM_5

Quite frankly, on a 2:30 second track (which is very big), less than a 0.5 advantage (or disadvantage) is really negligible. Not because I am coming from an M5, but because both of these cars are capable and it is really a driver's race at that point. Is Henricy a better driver than Auberlen? Auberlen hasn't been behind the wheel of an M5 for years, according to R&T... and he actually took a 6 speed and an SMG to see which one suited him better... he took the SMG. Henricy has been the test driver for the new CTS-V in very recent times.

There is a source that Hans Stuck, legendary BMW driver and champion, drove a stock M5 around the ring in 7:52 (from the M5board), which bests Henricy's time with the new CTS-V by about 7 seconds (which had some interior mods like a 5 point harness and IIRC, a cage, which helps plant the driver in better and stiffens up the chassis [cage]).

However, with specs and dimensions this close, it may just come down to bang for the buck and preference. IMO, while the caddy has a much improved interior, the new CTS [inside] looks very Timex-watch like... with the Indiglo, 6 different materials and blingy-type dash. I'll take the simpler, classier and more understated interior.

And with the M5 past its half way mark in it's LC, and coupled with the fact that the CTS-V isn't even out yet.... GM is still playing catch-up. Actually, with all the trash Bob Lutz has been talking (since a year ago) about how the new CTS-V is "going to suck the doors off the M5...", well... please try again a another 5 years, buddy.

JetBlack5OC

Actually they are doing both. Chevrolet Volt already has 34,000 on the waiting list. They also have more hybrid models in the works.

JetBlack5OC

100% correct. It is actually M-engines that are prone to meltdowns. GM reliablility ratings have bested BMW for years. We just have some BMW fanboys on here.

JetBlack5OC

CTS-V had the faster 0-60, 1/4 mile, 60-0 braking, slalom, skidpad, and lap times.

Looks like the clear winner to me. At a huge discount too, +$20k less.

skylolow

Well looks like we have at least 5 or 6 of you who should be trading in your 5 series very shortly for the new CTS or the V version. Good luck with it.


The point of .5 secs difference was that going around a track of that size one corner that could've went a tad smoother can be the difference. Like I said means really nothing. 3+ secs now that has alot more to do with the car then just a slight wheel spin coming out of a turn or slightly bad line coming in or out of a turn. Didn't think it was that hard to understand. Best drivers in the world don't put up the same lap times exactly over and over.

To the people saying the straight line performance is on line with new Lambo and 997 turbo then it just goes to show you in reality the M5 is a much better track car (I haven't seen the straight line numbers). But under those specs then the CTS-V should really just pull out of the corners and really open up the distance on a straight way. So being in a half second of each other it tells me the M5 is out handling the CTS-V quite easily in the corners.

Idiots focus on the badge????? Come on people. Most things in life you purchase part of it comes down to "name brand". Anyone on here that is a business owner knows your business needs to create a "brand" not just be a name to be successful. Keep living in your fantasy world if you don't think a badge means anything.

JetBlack5OC

To be honest no one tracks cars this big anyways. These cars weigh 4,000+ lbs. They are pigs. These cars are highway missiles.

You can conclude from the Road & Track and Edmunds tests. The CTS-V had the faster 0-60, 1/4 mile, 60-0 braking, slalom, skidpad, and lap times. It is clearly the better performing car. At a huge discount too, +$20k less.

As far as handling. (edmunds)

M5
slalom - 69.2 mph
skidpad - 0.86 g

CTS-V
slalom - 71.1 mph
skidpad - 0.92 g

So no the M5 is not out handling the CTS-V. It is the opposite. And it won't pull on the straights. CTS-V is 150 lbs heavier so the power-to-weight ratios are very close.

You can spin it all you want, the facts are there. Stock vs stock the CTS-V is a better performer.

Yes the M5 is 3 year old design. But when the next M5 comes out the CTS-V will be at least 2 years old. So if the next M5 beats the CTS-V, it will too be beating an old design. This is the way the automotive market works, in cycles.

swajames

My reference to the 997 Turbo times was pretty obviously a reference to 0-60 times only, and these don't bring much to bear on lap times. This makes much of the subsequent argument about how the M5 must be a better track car something of a non-sequitur (in fact the Edmunds test shows the CTS-V does in fact compare pretty well with the M5 here). Stoplight acceleration is still pretty important however, as in the US it's pretty much the only performance advantage that an owner of a car of the caliber of an M5 or a CTS-V is really able to realize every day.

formuleuno

Agreed...but if you live in the mountain areas or have a racetrack nearby (which I do), are 0-60 times everything? I dont think so. If that were the case, there wouldn't be as many Lotus Elise/Mini Cooper owners out there. If you're looking for a complete package you look for both handling and power which the Porsche and M3/M5 have IMO.

I understand that a lot of people have a perception about American made automobiles, which is totally fine. They deserved what they got for slacking off compared to their competition. But now (some think its too late), they are starting to catch up to their foreign counterparts. Its not entirely impossible that they are able build a car that CAN give the foreign cars a run for their money and do so at a competitive price. GM is coming to play ball people. The next M5 will beat the CTS-V in overall performance, but you should take notice that the M5 has another competitior that isnt an Audi or MB.

And EM_5, it may not have 'sucked' the doors off the M5, but it did compete with it. Maybe Bob Lutz spouted off at the mouth, but his prediction wasn't THAT far off.

Now...I'm off take my 535 for a drive.