More on 20.01.00
01-28-2006, 08:31 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by wowe' post='230858' date='Jan 28 2006, 12:22 AM
Could this be the updated from BMW since the cars performed very bad in handling situations in Swedish carmagazine.
Oh you mean not letting us disable DSC completly? You know what... Isnt Mercedes and Audi Like that now... where you cant completly disable ESP?
01-28-2006, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by EBMCS03' post='230992' date='Jan 28 2006, 12:31 PM
Oh you mean not letting us disable DSC completly? You know what... Isnt Mercedes and Audi Like that now... where you cant completly disable ESP?
06-20-2006, 10:06 AM
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Hi Znod - I was referred to this thread because of a post of mine on another Board.
"I recently had my 15,000 mile service, and noticed that the car doesn't seem to have the same 'grunt' it used to. I did some gtech pro testing prior to the service, and have run a few times 'post service'. The results were quite surprising. My best run before service was 12.57@117.8 mph. Looking at a number of tests, run over the course of a few months prior to the service, I was consistently running 115-117 mph trapspeeds. Now, I've run a number of times under different conditions, and my best time is 12.78@113.8 mph.
I thought maybe I'd chalk it up to higher temps, or different conditions, but I calculated the effect of the conditions using the standard dyno correction factor, and it's less than 2%. So I used a HP calculator to look at what the difference in HP would be for a car of my weight, running these trap speeds.
I get 483 engine HP for a 4200 lb car running 113.6 trapspeed, and 536 HP for a 4200 lb car running 117.8 trapspeed. That's a 53 HP difference! Anyone else experience this with the 15,000 mile svc? I had software version 20.02.01 installed as well. I'm thinking of taking the car back and having them check it out."
It sounds like you've had the same experience. Any updates? I'll bring the car into my SA in the next few weeks and see if I can find out what's going on.
"I recently had my 15,000 mile service, and noticed that the car doesn't seem to have the same 'grunt' it used to. I did some gtech pro testing prior to the service, and have run a few times 'post service'. The results were quite surprising. My best run before service was 12.57@117.8 mph. Looking at a number of tests, run over the course of a few months prior to the service, I was consistently running 115-117 mph trapspeeds. Now, I've run a number of times under different conditions, and my best time is 12.78@113.8 mph.
I thought maybe I'd chalk it up to higher temps, or different conditions, but I calculated the effect of the conditions using the standard dyno correction factor, and it's less than 2%. So I used a HP calculator to look at what the difference in HP would be for a car of my weight, running these trap speeds.
I get 483 engine HP for a 4200 lb car running 113.6 trapspeed, and 536 HP for a 4200 lb car running 117.8 trapspeed. That's a 53 HP difference! Anyone else experience this with the 15,000 mile svc? I had software version 20.02.01 installed as well. I'm thinking of taking the car back and having them check it out."
It sounds like you've had the same experience. Any updates? I'll bring the car into my SA in the next few weeks and see if I can find out what's going on.
06-20-2006, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Znod' post='231050' date='Jan 28 2006, 08:32 PM
My manual says that I can turn both off.
If the software doesn't allow it, the manual can say "what it wants"...
ABC
06-20-2006, 01:48 PM
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Well, I'm a little embarrased - the problem wasn't with the car - it was with my measurements!
I installed the H&R springs at the same time I did the service, and ran the gtech right after that. Lower speeds and times... I figured it was the conditions. I ran it a few days ago and got the same results, and figured something was wrong with the car. I suppose my 'perception' that the car had less grunt was colored a bit by the gtech results. But there is another reason...
The gtech has a calibration feature called 'pitch factor', that takes into account the angle of the car when accelerating. The stiffer the suspension the lower the pitch factor should be. Well, with the H&R springs, the suspension is much stiffer, and there is virtually no squat when accelerating, and that means the 'pitch factor' needs to be lower. When I lowered the pitch factor, the gtech results came right in line with my earliest runs - in 91 deg heat, only one run, I ran a 12.67@116.4 with a 4.48 0-60 run. My 'butt dyno' perception was probably affected by the lack of squat on acceleration also.
The bottom line is there's no problem with the car, or the software - just with the tester...
I installed the H&R springs at the same time I did the service, and ran the gtech right after that. Lower speeds and times... I figured it was the conditions. I ran it a few days ago and got the same results, and figured something was wrong with the car. I suppose my 'perception' that the car had less grunt was colored a bit by the gtech results. But there is another reason...
The gtech has a calibration feature called 'pitch factor', that takes into account the angle of the car when accelerating. The stiffer the suspension the lower the pitch factor should be. Well, with the H&R springs, the suspension is much stiffer, and there is virtually no squat when accelerating, and that means the 'pitch factor' needs to be lower. When I lowered the pitch factor, the gtech results came right in line with my earliest runs - in 91 deg heat, only one run, I ran a 12.67@116.4 with a 4.48 0-60 run. My 'butt dyno' perception was probably affected by the lack of squat on acceleration also.
The bottom line is there's no problem with the car, or the software - just with the tester...
06-20-2006, 02:01 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by wolverine' post='300393' date='Jun 20 2006, 01:06 PM
Hi Znod - I was referred to this thread because of a post of mine on another Board.
"I recently had my 15,000 mile service, and noticed that the car doesn't seem to have the same 'grunt' it used to. I did some gtech pro testing prior to the service, and have run a few times 'post service'. The results were quite surprising. My best run before service was 12.57@117.8 mph. Looking at a number of tests, run over the course of a few months prior to the service, I was consistently running 115-117 mph trapspeeds. Now, I've run a number of times under different conditions, and my best time is 12.78@113.8 mph.
I thought maybe I'd chalk it up to higher temps, or different conditions, but I calculated the effect of the conditions using the standard dyno correction factor, and it's less than 2%. So I used a HP calculator to look at what the difference in HP would be for a car of my weight, running these trap speeds.
I get 483 engine HP for a 4200 lb car running 113.6 trapspeed, and 536 HP for a 4200 lb car running 117.8 trapspeed. That's a 53 HP difference! Anyone else experience this with the 15,000 mile svc? I had software version 20.02.01 installed as well. I'm thinking of taking the car back and having them check it out."
It sounds like you've had the same experience. Any updates? I'll bring the car into my SA in the next few weeks and see if I can find out what's going on.
"I recently had my 15,000 mile service, and noticed that the car doesn't seem to have the same 'grunt' it used to. I did some gtech pro testing prior to the service, and have run a few times 'post service'. The results were quite surprising. My best run before service was 12.57@117.8 mph. Looking at a number of tests, run over the course of a few months prior to the service, I was consistently running 115-117 mph trapspeeds. Now, I've run a number of times under different conditions, and my best time is 12.78@113.8 mph.
I thought maybe I'd chalk it up to higher temps, or different conditions, but I calculated the effect of the conditions using the standard dyno correction factor, and it's less than 2%. So I used a HP calculator to look at what the difference in HP would be for a car of my weight, running these trap speeds.
I get 483 engine HP for a 4200 lb car running 113.6 trapspeed, and 536 HP for a 4200 lb car running 117.8 trapspeed. That's a 53 HP difference! Anyone else experience this with the 15,000 mile svc? I had software version 20.02.01 installed as well. I'm thinking of taking the car back and having them check it out."
It sounds like you've had the same experience. Any updates? I'll bring the car into my SA in the next few weeks and see if I can find out what's going on.
Very interesting. Assuming your difference is real, I am very sorry to hear about your 20.02.01 experience. Can you tell me about the differences in the weather conditions for your pre and post 20.02.01 passes. I might be able to draw some inferences. I'll be glad to try to help anyway I can.
I have had no further updates. I am waiting around for one that is supposed to affect performance, shifting, DTC/DTS, etc. I have absolutely no reason to believe that anything later than 20.01.00, available at this time, will improve my situation.
My experience is that if a software update produces results you don't like, then its too bad. Generally speaking, BMW does not allow one to backup to an earlier CIP/Progman version unless, perhaps, the engine management coputer has to be replaced. Thus, if the software is to blame, then, even if a PUMA case is opened, as in my case, nothing of substance will happen. They may suggest an reset, but that's all that will happen IMO.
Assuming that your performance difference is real, the only words of encouragement I can offer are that my car seemed to make a comeback over time, presumably through learning. It's comeback seems complete enough except that I can't turn DTC and DSC both off like I used to be able to--which affects my starts somewhat--sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse--perhaps better on average. But, I miss the ability to spin my wheels and, thus, to put some driver expertise into the performance equation. I'd rather be able to have some exceptional times, while, at the same time, having to stomache my really bad efforts.
It took many passes before I came to believe that my car had more or less fully recovered. But, I can't recommend that you do the same because you might not get the same result I did.
I have real qualms about BMW at this point because of this type of software issue. It's not good when a software update leaves one worse off especially performance-wise. Let me know if I can help in any way.
06-20-2006, 02:29 PM
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The difference is fortunately not real - my fault. I outlined what happened in the earlier post - didn't correct the 'pitch factor' after I replaced the springs... 
06-20-2006, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by wolverine' post='300522' date='Jun 20 2006, 05:29 PM
The difference is fortunately not real - my fault. I outlined what happened in the earlier post - didn't correct the 'pitch factor' after I replaced the springs...
06-20-2006, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Znod' post='300507' date='Jun 20 2006, 06:01 PM
Hi Wolverine:
Very interesting. Assuming your difference is real, I am very sorry to hear about your 20.02.01 experience. Can you tell me about the differences in the weather conditions for your pre and post 20.02.01 passes. I might be able to draw some inferences. I'll be glad to try to help anyway I can.
I have had no further updates. I am waiting around for one that is supposed to affect performance, shifting, DTC/DTS, etc. I have absolutely no reason to believe that anything later than 20.01.00, available at this time, will improve my situation.
My experience is that if a software update produces results you don't like, then its too bad. Generally speaking, BMW does not allow one to backup to an earlier CIP/Progman version unless, perhaps, the engine management coputer has to be replaced. Thus, if the software is to blame, then, even if a PUMA case is opened, as in my case, nothing of substance will happen. They may suggest an reset, but that's all that will happen IMO.
Assuming that your performance difference is real, the only words of encouragement I can offer are that my car seemed to make a comeback over time, presumably through learning. It's comeback seems complete enough except that I can't turn DTC and DSC both off like I used to be able to--which affects my starts somewhat--sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse--perhaps better on average. But, I miss the ability to spin my wheels and, thus, to put some driver expertise into the performance equation. I'd rather be able to have some exceptional times, while, at the same time, having to stomache my really bad efforts.
It took many passes before I came to believe that my car had more or less fully recovered. But, I can't recommend that you do the same because you might not get the same result I did.
I have real qualms about BMW at this point because of this type of software issue. It's not good when a software update leaves one worse off especially performance-wise. Let me know if I can help in any way.
Very interesting. Assuming your difference is real, I am very sorry to hear about your 20.02.01 experience. Can you tell me about the differences in the weather conditions for your pre and post 20.02.01 passes. I might be able to draw some inferences. I'll be glad to try to help anyway I can.
I have had no further updates. I am waiting around for one that is supposed to affect performance, shifting, DTC/DTS, etc. I have absolutely no reason to believe that anything later than 20.01.00, available at this time, will improve my situation.
My experience is that if a software update produces results you don't like, then its too bad. Generally speaking, BMW does not allow one to backup to an earlier CIP/Progman version unless, perhaps, the engine management coputer has to be replaced. Thus, if the software is to blame, then, even if a PUMA case is opened, as in my case, nothing of substance will happen. They may suggest an reset, but that's all that will happen IMO.
Assuming that your performance difference is real, the only words of encouragement I can offer are that my car seemed to make a comeback over time, presumably through learning. It's comeback seems complete enough except that I can't turn DTC and DSC both off like I used to be able to--which affects my starts somewhat--sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse--perhaps better on average. But, I miss the ability to spin my wheels and, thus, to put some driver expertise into the performance equation. I'd rather be able to have some exceptional times, while, at the same time, having to stomache my really bad efforts.
It took many passes before I came to believe that my car had more or less fully recovered. But, I can't recommend that you do the same because you might not get the same result I did.
I have real qualms about BMW at this point because of this type of software issue. It's not good when a software update leaves one worse off especially performance-wise. Let me know if I can help in any way.
I just had a thought on your tire spinning problem.Have you considered that maybe you are getting better traction because possibly your tires have worn down to a point?Tires with new or almost new tread have less traction than those that are worn.You know this from drag strip experience.Thats why they use slicks. Let me know if you had considered this possibility.
06-20-2006, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by grogan545' post='300525' date='Jun 20 2006, 05:34 PM
Hi Znod,been reading all posts but have not posted recently.I traded my hemi jeep for a RAV4 and been playing with the RAV4 a bit.
I just had a thought on your tire spinning problem.Have you considered that maybe you are getting better traction because possibly your tires have worn down to a point?Tires with new or almost new tread have less traction than those that are worn.You know this from drag strip experience.Thats why they use slicks. Let me know if you had considered this possibility.
I just had a thought on your tire spinning problem.Have you considered that maybe you are getting better traction because possibly your tires have worn down to a point?Tires with new or almost new tread have less traction than those that are worn.You know this from drag strip experience.Thats why they use slicks. Let me know if you had considered this possibility.
No I had not considered the possibility. But, before 20.01.00, I had lots of wheel spin when my first set of PS2's was both new and later after being used for quite a while. Then, when I got the new ones, around the time my update to 20.01.00 occurred, I had essentially no wheel spin when new or later. So, I accidentally had a pretty tightly controlled experiment that implies lots of wheel spin on new to used PS2's before 20.01.00 and essentially no wheelspin after 20.01.00 on new to used PS2's.