HELP: Any "audiophile" :-) on board? Re. Logic 7
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It is quite "heart warming" to see fellow audiophiles 
on this board. I suspected as much (lurking audiophiles--expected on a "passionate hobby" forum like this) but didn't expect so many replies so soon.
Anyway, in my original post I almost "came out" w/ my equipments (CJ tube preamp and Linn/Koetsu/Cotter Transformer/Tube Phono Stage) to set a frame of reference, but pulled back for fear of getting flamed. But I feel safer now.
The "Logic 7" feature would be justified for me only if it's used to keep voice/main instrument up front and center. I would be terribly disappointed it it's there only to provide "effects".
So I guess that would be my MAIN QUESTION: When you turn Logic 7 on, does it work mainly to keep voice up front and center and provide (subtle) depth/dimension to soundstage ?? (I believe this is what the Mark Levinsion premium audio system found in Lexus does.)
Or does it just add bombastic effect and "muddy" up the midrange and add confusion to the soundstage (eg. voice/instruments coming from your back)?
The seemingly needed adjustments to the (gasp) equalizer also bothers me a little bit. There is not even a tone control knob in my 3 home audio systems.
From the replies so far, I think I will give it a try.
Regards,
Can
on this board. I suspected as much (lurking audiophiles--expected on a "passionate hobby" forum like this) but didn't expect so many replies so soon.Anyway, in my original post I almost "came out" w/ my equipments (CJ tube preamp and Linn/Koetsu/Cotter Transformer/Tube Phono Stage) to set a frame of reference, but pulled back for fear of getting flamed. But I feel safer now.
The "Logic 7" feature would be justified for me only if it's used to keep voice/main instrument up front and center. I would be terribly disappointed it it's there only to provide "effects".
So I guess that would be my MAIN QUESTION: When you turn Logic 7 on, does it work mainly to keep voice up front and center and provide (subtle) depth/dimension to soundstage ?? (I believe this is what the Mark Levinsion premium audio system found in Lexus does.)
Or does it just add bombastic effect and "muddy" up the midrange and add confusion to the soundstage (eg. voice/instruments coming from your back)?
The seemingly needed adjustments to the (gasp) equalizer also bothers me a little bit. There is not even a tone control knob in my 3 home audio systems.
From the replies so far, I think I will give it a try.
Regards,
Can
Originally Posted by 2004RType' date='Nov 27 2004, 06:55 AM
Hey it seems like you are in the same boat as I, I myself have a killer Home System all Krell and Wilson Audio Speakers. I have the Logic 7 its not bad but dont get your hopes up the settings are not accurate I mean in the frequency ranges they list them.
I posted a few days ago browse through a few pages under my user name and see my comments on adjustments,
I mean the OEM stock unit is terrible in my opinion so get the Logic 7 just to fill that gap.
You can get some songs to sound really good on the car but it is not normal to make 10 adjustments per track.
Bass gets a bit muddy on some tracks and the midrange seems to be the hardest to tone down without losing it all.
I posted a few days ago browse through a few pages under my user name and see my comments on adjustments,
I mean the OEM stock unit is terrible in my opinion so get the Logic 7 just to fill that gap.
You can get some songs to sound really good on the car but it is not normal to make 10 adjustments per track.
Bass gets a bit muddy on some tracks and the midrange seems to be the hardest to tone down without losing it all.
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cannga,Nov 27 2004, 09:34 AM
So I guess that would be my MAIN QUESTION: When you turn Logic 7 on, does it work mainly to keep voice up front and center and provide (subtle) depth/dimension to soundstage ?? The Logic 7 DSP will add the dimension/depth you want. Without the L7 and subwoofers, you have no chance in getting a system that will please the audiophile.
The seemingly needed adjustments to the (gasp) equalizer also bothers me a little bit. There is not even a tone control knob in my 3 home audio systems.
There's also an overall Bass and Treble control for the system. I set my eq and then use the overall bass/treble controls to match the music.
I'll take some pics of my eq settings as soon as I have time. Btw, I played professionally for about 10 years and also have done sound/stage work. While my settings may not please everyone's tastes, compared to other systems, the L7/subwoofers are very pleasing.
Not withstanding the above, I will probably add a subwoofer/amp for more control in the 45-60hz range. I like to have abolute control over the bass in my systems.
Since I listen to all types of music, when I want my system to bang, it's got to bang.
You won't regret adding the L7 to your option list.
So I guess that would be my MAIN QUESTION: When you turn Logic 7 on, does it work mainly to keep voice up front and center and provide (subtle) depth/dimension to soundstage ?? The Logic 7 DSP will add the dimension/depth you want. Without the L7 and subwoofers, you have no chance in getting a system that will please the audiophile.
The seemingly needed adjustments to the (gasp) equalizer also bothers me a little bit. There is not even a tone control knob in my 3 home audio systems.
There's also an overall Bass and Treble control for the system. I set my eq and then use the overall bass/treble controls to match the music.
I'll take some pics of my eq settings as soon as I have time. Btw, I played professionally for about 10 years and also have done sound/stage work. While my settings may not please everyone's tastes, compared to other systems, the L7/subwoofers are very pleasing.
Not withstanding the above, I will probably add a subwoofer/amp for more control in the 45-60hz range. I like to have abolute control over the bass in my systems.
Since I listen to all types of music, when I want my system to bang, it's got to bang.
You won't regret adding the L7 to your option list.
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Originally Posted by jksanford' date='Nov 27 2004, 04:06 PM
I believe that in the US, the "HiFi" option you're referring to is the standard sound, and the only 'option' is Logic7.
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Originally Posted by BangleBox_530d' date='Nov 27 2004, 04:45 PM
Bass is very good on the HiFi, so when they say "woofers" do they mean subwoofers. That is, do both systems have 2 subs? 1 front, 1 rear. Or 1 left, 1 right?
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One under each front seat!
L7 on the 7series (same in the 5series!):
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Originally Posted by cannga' date='Nov 27 2004, 04:46 AM
I am about to order my 545i and would appreciate some help please.? I have not been able to demo a car w/ the Logic 7 system so would like your opinions please.
I listen to music strictly on 2 channels.? Although I have a Krell Home Theater Pre Amp, when it comes to music, it is stritcly 2 channels (Magnepan/Quad speakers--so you know where I stand :-) ).? DSP is just too gimmicky for my taste and never used for music.
So is the Logic 7 upgrade worth it if I think I won't be using any of its digital sound processing capability?? (That is, is it a better straight stereo system than the basic setup?)?
I seem to see occasional complaints of boomy bass and peaky treble, severe or slight problem?
I am new here and have learned a lot from this forum.
Regards,
Can Phan
I hate to say this but after all the playing with adjustments I think lowering the volume makes things acceptable Im not happy about that but the bass has no control with the Eq
the frequency is not accurate.
I remember on my old Zapco EQ what I experience now in the Bimmer I would just cut 125hz and 275hz and 400hz, mostly 275 and the vocals and bass where in check
On this Logic 7 Eq it does not react as superb as my older Zapco car Audio Components, I really miss those days.
I listen to music strictly on 2 channels.? Although I have a Krell Home Theater Pre Amp, when it comes to music, it is stritcly 2 channels (Magnepan/Quad speakers--so you know where I stand :-) ).? DSP is just too gimmicky for my taste and never used for music.
So is the Logic 7 upgrade worth it if I think I won't be using any of its digital sound processing capability?? (That is, is it a better straight stereo system than the basic setup?)?
I seem to see occasional complaints of boomy bass and peaky treble, severe or slight problem?
I am new here and have learned a lot from this forum.
Regards,
Can Phan
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I hate to say this but after all the playing with adjustments I think lowering the volume makes things acceptable Im not happy about that but the bass has no control with the Eq
the frequency is not accurate.
I remember on my old Zapco EQ what I experience now in the Bimmer I would just cut 125hz and 275hz and 400hz, mostly 275 and the vocals and bass where in check
On this Logic 7 Eq it does not react as superb as my older Zapco car Audio Components, I really miss those days.
Its amazing how some systems low end sound all the same, I guess Most buyers Love BOOM, at home my Bass sounds so unique and different and accurate that I doubt it can be reproduced without speding a fortune on designing a system for the car.
When I took measurements of my media room 30hz which is really low and in a car with enough woofers will blow the rear window out, sounds so clean and natural, not like a dynamite explosion rattling my walls.
BOOM Sells I guess!
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>>>>>I would normally agree with your statement about DSP but there are only two settings you're technically paying for.
What do you mean by "only 2 settings you're technically paying for" please?
Regards,
Can
What do you mean by "only 2 settings you're technically paying for" please?
Regards,
Can
Originally Posted by Sans' date='Nov 27 2004, 08:51 AM
Logic 7 also adds two subwoofers beneath the front seats.? They are not "kickers" per se` so don't expect them to rattle the bolts listening to hip hop.
To answer your primary question, yes L7 is head and shoulders better than the basic setup.? In addition to the extra (and better quality) speakers you get more power and a graphic equalizer.? I would normally agree with your statement about DSP but there are only two settings you're technically paying for.? And actually for some material I think you get a little better imaging with it on.?
Of course there is no car system that will match an audiophile setting (particularly your ribbon speakers etc) primarily because of the ambient noises and cabin design but I think L7 is quite good and well worth the money.
Also: Bass - a little boomy when you add dbs (minor issue - I think the equalizer is not ramping 100 Hz cleanly, but I have not put a scope to it).? I have not noticed any issues with high end of the range - but I listen to alt rock,? jazz and a little classical piano.? All the high hats in rock have been cranked/compressed and are cutting through the mix with no effort on my end.
My only wish was for multiple save-able EQ settings...but I think I posted that to death already.?
To answer your primary question, yes L7 is head and shoulders better than the basic setup.? In addition to the extra (and better quality) speakers you get more power and a graphic equalizer.? I would normally agree with your statement about DSP but there are only two settings you're technically paying for.? And actually for some material I think you get a little better imaging with it on.?
Of course there is no car system that will match an audiophile setting (particularly your ribbon speakers etc) primarily because of the ambient noises and cabin design but I think L7 is quite good and well worth the money.
Also: Bass - a little boomy when you add dbs (minor issue - I think the equalizer is not ramping 100 Hz cleanly, but I have not put a scope to it).? I have not noticed any issues with high end of the range - but I listen to alt rock,? jazz and a little classical piano.? All the high hats in rock have been cranked/compressed and are cutting through the mix with no effort on my end.
My only wish was for multiple save-able EQ settings...but I think I posted that to death already.?
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Hello fellow audiophile, 
It seems boomy, one note bass is a problem. I do not expect these woofers to equal your Watts Puppy's. But is it THAT bad?
Is this a problem even with every tone control at flat settings, without bass boost? And with Logic 7 off (straight stereo)?
Judging from all the (very helpful) posts I've seen so far, I most likely will order Logic 7 and try to tame the bass if it's a problem. The older I get, the more jazz and classical I am listening too, so hopefully the bass won't be as much of an issue.
From posts by other members: Imaging/soundstage and treble don't seem to be an issue. Do you feel the same?
Regards,
Can
BTW, my unforgettable audiophile experience: Demo on Watts3/Puppy 2 by David Wilson himself, with all Jadis electronics and vinyl, in the early 90's. I ended up w/ Thiel CS5i (Krell FPB600 amp, CJ pre) but always have a warm spot in my heart for Watts/Puppy.
It seems boomy, one note bass is a problem. I do not expect these woofers to equal your Watts Puppy's. But is it THAT bad?
Is this a problem even with every tone control at flat settings, without bass boost? And with Logic 7 off (straight stereo)?
Judging from all the (very helpful) posts I've seen so far, I most likely will order Logic 7 and try to tame the bass if it's a problem. The older I get, the more jazz and classical I am listening too, so hopefully the bass won't be as much of an issue.
From posts by other members: Imaging/soundstage and treble don't seem to be an issue. Do you feel the same?
Regards,
Can
BTW, my unforgettable audiophile experience: Demo on Watts3/Puppy 2 by David Wilson himself, with all Jadis electronics and vinyl, in the early 90's. I ended up w/ Thiel CS5i (Krell FPB600 amp, CJ pre) but always have a warm spot in my heart for Watts/Puppy.
Originally Posted by 2004RType' date='Nov 28 2004, 10:37 AM
Sub s under the front seats I wonder If I can adjust them if I hooked up a potentiometer to control the signal level?
I really think this could help alot.
I really think this could help alot.
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Hi Cannga,
Go to www.lexicon.com. Lexicon maufactures the Logic7 system. At their site, they have info on it, including a shockwave demo of generally how it works.
The two settings referred to are two sets of predefined settings in the system - concert hall and something else. They re-image the soundstage to get the voice up front and make it more realistic. Unlike the old DSP systems in BMW, one of these settings works pretty well. One's not good and adds reverb.
It is a good system, and if you don't upgrade to it, you will no doubt end up going down a very expensive upgrade road. I think the system is good enough for a car system. I'd personally say to improve upon it, you'd be looking at at least 3X, to replace amps, speakers, etc.
My $0.02
Go to www.lexicon.com. Lexicon maufactures the Logic7 system. At their site, they have info on it, including a shockwave demo of generally how it works.
The two settings referred to are two sets of predefined settings in the system - concert hall and something else. They re-image the soundstage to get the voice up front and make it more realistic. Unlike the old DSP systems in BMW, one of these settings works pretty well. One's not good and adds reverb.
It is a good system, and if you don't upgrade to it, you will no doubt end up going down a very expensive upgrade road. I think the system is good enough for a car system. I'd personally say to improve upon it, you'd be looking at at least 3X, to replace amps, speakers, etc.
My $0.02