Handles like crap in the wind
05-24-2007, 02:51 PM
#11
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My Ride: E60 525d M-Sport Saloon M57N2 3.0d LCI
EXTERIOR: Jet Black, ///M-Aerodynamic Bodystyling, ///M-Rear Spoiler, De-badged, Gradual Tint Windscreen, ///M-Double Spoke 172M 19" Alloy Wheels (with non-run flats & space saver spare wheel) & ///M-Sports Suspension;
INTERIOR: ///M-Steering Wheel, Black Dakota Leather Heated Sports Seats with Electric Lumbar Supports, Brushed Aluminium Interior Trim & Anthracite Headlining.
To be honest, this is one aspect of the car I am finding very disappointing. I've had my 525d M Sport for approaching 4 weeks now from new - car is fitted with 19" 172M's with non RFT's and without AS. During this time there has been more than a fair share of 'windy' days. On a calm day the car drives flawless with impressive refinement and stability. Introduce even a small amount of wind though and this all changes. I've even had one situation where I was struggling with the car at 65mph - granted this was on a very windy day. I am very used to driving long distances and have covered up to 40k miles in a year before now - so have a lot of motorway experience.
Surely there is a considerable design flaw somewhere for the car to be effected to this level. I have driven on the days affected observing vehicles in front, and as I have been blow from one side of the lane to another, I have seen cars that are 10+ years old 'bangers' that are completely stable. On one such day I even went back out for a drive, after returning home, in one of my other cars to see if the wind was so severe and guess what, no stability issues.
I still love the car but this is really unacceptable in a car of this value and reputation. The car is definitely worst effected by cross winds, and not so much by head-on or tail winds. Could this be down to the fact that the car is relatively large i.e. a large area for the wind to get hold of, but is combined with a relatively low kerb weight? I notice that the cars underbody is completely covered (with the exception of the exhaust / transmission tunnel) giving the underside a completely flat surface - I would have thought this would aid aerodynamics?
Surely there is a considerable design flaw somewhere for the car to be effected to this level. I have driven on the days affected observing vehicles in front, and as I have been blow from one side of the lane to another, I have seen cars that are 10+ years old 'bangers' that are completely stable. On one such day I even went back out for a drive, after returning home, in one of my other cars to see if the wind was so severe and guess what, no stability issues.
I still love the car but this is really unacceptable in a car of this value and reputation. The car is definitely worst effected by cross winds, and not so much by head-on or tail winds. Could this be down to the fact that the car is relatively large i.e. a large area for the wind to get hold of, but is combined with a relatively low kerb weight? I notice that the cars underbody is completely covered (with the exception of the exhaust / transmission tunnel) giving the underside a completely flat surface - I would have thought this would aid aerodynamics?
05-24-2007, 03:12 PM
#12
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Now that you mention that and albeit many years since I have taken physics but now that you mention a completely flat bottom-to me I believe most performance cars do not have completely flat bottoms and are designed to create some level of downforce whereas a completely flat bottom would create some unwanted lift in the car.
Combined with the lightweight of the car relative to its size and like you say the size of the car being pretty hefty-I am sure those are all factors.
But agreed-I wonder if the M5 or a suspension upgraded car (well you have the M-sport-do those have the same suspenion as an M car?)
I think you are right and it is unacceptable for this to happen. I know many cities, especially in europe and plenty over here in america are windy more days then not and I just happen to live in a non-windy city but I would be pissed if everyday I had to deal with this issue.
Pretty amazing after this many years and the technology they have this would be a problem
Combined with the lightweight of the car relative to its size and like you say the size of the car being pretty hefty-I am sure those are all factors.
But agreed-I wonder if the M5 or a suspension upgraded car (well you have the M-sport-do those have the same suspenion as an M car?)
I think you are right and it is unacceptable for this to happen. I know many cities, especially in europe and plenty over here in america are windy more days then not and I just happen to live in a non-windy city but I would be pissed if everyday I had to deal with this issue.
Pretty amazing after this many years and the technology they have this would be a problem
05-24-2007, 06:23 PM
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My Ride: '05 545i | Orient Blue | Blk Lthr | Sport | 6 Sp MT | Cold | Logic 7 | Sirius | iPod | Rear Heat | PDC | Rear SRS | NAV | HUD | AngeliBright Blue
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Fond memories of: '03 540ia (the tightest car I ever owned!)
Originally Posted by Palmo' post='428030' date='May 24 2007, 05:51 PM
To be honest, this is one aspect of the car I am finding very disappointing. I've had my 525d M Sport for approaching 4 weeks now from new - car is fitted with 19" 172M's with non RFT's and without AS. During this time there has been more than a fair share of 'windy' days. On a calm day the car drives flawless with impressive refinement and stability. Introduce even a small amount of wind though and this all changes. I've even had one situation where I was struggling with the car at 65mph - granted this was on a very windy day. I am very used to driving long distances and have covered up to 40k miles in a year before now - so have a lot of motorway experience.
Surely there is a considerable design flaw somewhere for the car to be effected to this level. I have driven on the days affected observing vehicles in front, and as I have been blow from one side of the lane to another, I have seen cars that are 10+ years old 'bangers' that are completely stable. On one such day I even went back out for a drive, after returning home, in one of my other cars to see if the wind was so severe and guess what, no stability issues.
I still love the car but this is really unacceptable in a car of this value and reputation. The car is definitely worst effected by cross winds, and not so much by head-on or tail winds. Could this be down to the fact that the car is relatively large i.e. a large area for the wind to get hold of, but is combined with a relatively low kerb weight? I notice that the cars underbody is completely covered (with the exception of the exhaust / transmission tunnel) giving the underside a completely flat surface - I would have thought this would aid aerodynamics?
Surely there is a considerable design flaw somewhere for the car to be effected to this level. I have driven on the days affected observing vehicles in front, and as I have been blow from one side of the lane to another, I have seen cars that are 10+ years old 'bangers' that are completely stable. On one such day I even went back out for a drive, after returning home, in one of my other cars to see if the wind was so severe and guess what, no stability issues.
I still love the car but this is really unacceptable in a car of this value and reputation. The car is definitely worst effected by cross winds, and not so much by head-on or tail winds. Could this be down to the fact that the car is relatively large i.e. a large area for the wind to get hold of, but is combined with a relatively low kerb weight? I notice that the cars underbody is completely covered (with the exception of the exhaust / transmission tunnel) giving the underside a completely flat surface - I would have thought this would aid aerodynamics?
I couldn't agree with you more... my 540i was SOOOOO much more solid than my 545i its not even funny!
05-24-2007, 07:31 PM
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I've read older posts of e60s have trouble in crosswinds, but thought the problem was exaggerated, because at normal speeds in upwards of 100, I never had any problems.
Somewhat recently, I drove in high winds while at deep triple digits and thought the car was downright scary to drive. I thought it was just a function of active steering, so I'm a bit surprised to read of others without AS also having problems.
I posted some thought about this on another forum, but I'll go ahead and post them here. Again, I thought most of the problems were caused by AS and not specific to the car.
Somewhat recently, I drove in high winds while at deep triple digits and thought the car was downright scary to drive. I thought it was just a function of active steering, so I'm a bit surprised to read of others without AS also having problems.
I posted some thought about this on another forum, but I'll go ahead and post them here. Again, I thought most of the problems were caused by AS and not specific to the car.
High speeds coupled with strong side winds and AS makes for a downright scary and dangerous drive. AS will correct for the wind a bit in this situation, but I feel it does so in a delayed manner. So while driving, you will have to somewhat correct for the wind while also correcting and adjusting with AS. At normal and sane highway speeds, I don't think there's a problem. At very high rates of speeds though, in excess of 140 or so, I really do feel the combination of high winds and AS makes for a dangerous drive.
.....at sane speeds which are normally driven on the highway, ~80mph or even up to 100mph or more, that I never had problems with AS correcting in the wind. Only at very high speeds, such as those approaching the electronic limit of 155mph, do the problems of AS, in the situation of strong side winds, become apparent.........
...........For the record, I think that AS is a great piece of technology which allows the car to feel more nimble. Some say that AS subtracts from the road feel, but I don't feel that this is the case. I've very much enjoyed driving an AS equipped car, but with that said, I doubt I'd order it in the future as I don't feel it's necessary and worth the extra expense.
...........For the record, I think that AS is a great piece of technology which allows the car to feel more nimble. Some say that AS subtracts from the road feel, but I don't feel that this is the case. I've very much enjoyed driving an AS equipped car, but with that said, I doubt I'd order it in the future as I don't feel it's necessary and worth the extra expense.
05-24-2007, 10:48 PM
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My Ride: G30 530i M-sport
Model Year: 2018
I'll add myself to the list of people without AS, but who are having this problem.
I too am disappointed as heck with the handling in winds, especially upwards of 100km/h / 60mph. I actually feel the body of the car appear to be deflected side-to-side, not unlike what you feel in an airplane being battered by crosswinds, despite the fact that the steering feels firm and settled in my hands. My car was factory fitted with the "sports suspension" off the options list, whatever that is (the same as what's on the M-sport spec cars? Can anyone confirm/deny?), but at 80 - 100mph on a typical Dutch spring day, it makes me yearn for the handling on my (unmodified) E39.
MacSid
I too am disappointed as heck with the handling in winds, especially upwards of 100km/h / 60mph. I actually feel the body of the car appear to be deflected side-to-side, not unlike what you feel in an airplane being battered by crosswinds, despite the fact that the steering feels firm and settled in my hands. My car was factory fitted with the "sports suspension" off the options list, whatever that is (the same as what's on the M-sport spec cars? Can anyone confirm/deny?), but at 80 - 100mph on a typical Dutch spring day, it makes me yearn for the handling on my (unmodified) E39.
MacSid
05-24-2007, 11:02 PM
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My Ride: F11 520d Touring Imperial Blue, sports automatic, VDC, black leather sports seats, M Sport steering wheel, HiFi Professional, 18" 328 wheels, Xenon, PCD, electrical tow hitch etc...
E87 120dM -10, Titanium silver, xenon, PDC, Hifi, 18" wheels etc.
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Does this only apply to the Sedan or are there Touring owners who have experienced the same crosswind problem?
05-24-2007, 11:05 PM
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My Ride: F11 520d Touring Imperial Blue, sports automatic, VDC, black leather sports seats, M Sport steering wheel, HiFi Professional, 18" 328 wheels, Xenon, PCD, electrical tow hitch etc...
E87 120dM -10, Titanium silver, xenon, PDC, Hifi, 18" wheels etc.
E87 120d M sport- 08, Le Mans blue, xenon, PDC, Hifi, 18" wheels etc.
Sold: BMW 525dT Deep sea blue, xenon, PDC, leather, Hifi, USB etc.
Does this only apply to the Sedan or are there Touring owners who have experienced the same crosswind problem?
05-25-2007, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by sleepyca31' post='427699' date='May 23 2007, 04:03 PM
So when I first got my E60 I read an article in car and driver-or one of those mags about how the e60 handled really well except in windy conditions on the freeway at higher speeds where it was complete crap compared to how it normally handled.
Now I dont know if all cars suck in the wind since I have only owned one previous car and it was a chev tracker that handled like crap at all conditions so I have no comparison. But I do notice lately in the windy nights we have had that it is ALOT less stable on the windy rroads to the point where it scares me to push 90 whereas normally going 90 feels like a walk in the park. Obviously nothing can be done but just curisu as to why this may be or if it is like this for all cars.
Now I dont know if all cars suck in the wind since I have only owned one previous car and it was a chev tracker that handled like crap at all conditions so I have no comparison. But I do notice lately in the windy nights we have had that it is ALOT less stable on the windy rroads to the point where it scares me to push 90 whereas normally going 90 feels like a walk in the park. Obviously nothing can be done but just curisu as to why this may be or if it is like this for all cars.
05-25-2007, 08:03 AM
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Well this is funny in a sort of disapointing way. Not even sure where to start but having some thoughts.
1. Ranomly I feel kind of sorry for BMW and their active steering. If you guys do a search in this forum about the wind issue-about a 100 threads come up to read and half of the people blame AS for their problems when I never thought it was an obviously is not the problem. So poor bmw (ya right ) but still funny.
2. I find it funny what you guys are saying and I said the same thing, which is the feeling of relief to know our cars dont have anything wrong with them-no they just basically SUCK in the wind! haha Usually I would think I would WISH something were wrong which meant I could fix it and the car woudl no longer suck in the wind-but nope-we are all thrilled our cars just suck! (in the wind that is!)
I just have to laugh and think WHAT are the engineers doing. Honestly I have taken my fair share of physics and am no engineer but at a compnay like BMW, who engineers some of the best cars in the world-and likely has their pic of young brilliant engineers-HOW can they not make something that is aerodynamic enough to deal with wind. I mean it is not that hard with the technology available to them and how many years-like 5 or 6 between models deo they have to work on the next model-so e60 surely was being worked on for a longgg time.
Anyways sounds like no matter how great your suspension is-that is not the problem-it is a design flaw lacking quality downforce and I know it is not BASIC aerdynamics since the car is great in calm conditions-but rather VARIABLE aerodynamics which should ALWAYS be considered when building a car for gosh sakes and looks like they designed this baby strictly for non-windy conditions!
Anyway guess we are all SOL!
1. Ranomly I feel kind of sorry for BMW and their active steering. If you guys do a search in this forum about the wind issue-about a 100 threads come up to read and half of the people blame AS for their problems when I never thought it was an obviously is not the problem. So poor bmw (ya right ) but still funny.
2. I find it funny what you guys are saying and I said the same thing, which is the feeling of relief to know our cars dont have anything wrong with them-no they just basically SUCK in the wind! haha Usually I would think I would WISH something were wrong which meant I could fix it and the car woudl no longer suck in the wind-but nope-we are all thrilled our cars just suck! (in the wind that is!)
I just have to laugh and think WHAT are the engineers doing. Honestly I have taken my fair share of physics and am no engineer but at a compnay like BMW, who engineers some of the best cars in the world-and likely has their pic of young brilliant engineers-HOW can they not make something that is aerodynamic enough to deal with wind. I mean it is not that hard with the technology available to them and how many years-like 5 or 6 between models deo they have to work on the next model-so e60 surely was being worked on for a longgg time.
Anyways sounds like no matter how great your suspension is-that is not the problem-it is a design flaw lacking quality downforce and I know it is not BASIC aerdynamics since the car is great in calm conditions-but rather VARIABLE aerodynamics which should ALWAYS be considered when building a car for gosh sakes and looks like they designed this baby strictly for non-windy conditions!
Anyway guess we are all SOL!