Mr. Sandog

You're completely missing the point of a turbo.

A well-engineered turbo 6 can give you the best of all worlds - great HP & TQ, but in a smaller displacement motor, such that your mileage is much better than a equivalent V-8 at cruising speeds. With large displacement eights, you have to feed those liters all the time, and you end up with a very thirsty car.

Audi is not a fair comparison because their turbos are fours. Fours suck. Turbo sixes are a different story; turboed straight sixes are even sweeter, and turboed, forged, straight sixes are the sweetest (think Supra).

my530i

Blown turbo is bitter

swajames

Might want to get off the high horse. Your 520d cannot pass the emissions requirements here in California (and other large markets in the US that follow CAR due to excess NOx, even with low sulfur fuel. FWIW, my "pollute at will" 550 can.

dlevi67

Which have little to do with the quantity of CO2 (which is the main greenhouse gas on which the UK is focusing), but never mind. Not that NOx are nice to breathe. Little to do with sulphur, BTW, but with combustion temperature in Diesels being higher.

@s_henge: the assumption that everybody (or even most people) has a company car in the UK is to say the least incorrect. Less than 5% of cars are, the majority being cars given to sales reps and lower management grades who would not be "entitled" to a V8 anyway. And the difference in fuel duty and VAT is frankly irrelevant over the average mileage of a UK driver, as it's around ?600/year (assuming 40 mpg -> 25 mpg over 15000 miles), or less than a pint a day. If you want to find the reason why V8 and large capacity cars in general are less popular in the UK than in the US, it's not differential taxation.

swajames

That's right, as I understand it California's Air Resources Board mandates the same levels for certain gasses irrespective of the type of fuel (whereas EU rules distinguish between gasoline and diesel, and Euro IV and V allow different limits for each fuel). BMW diesels will pass the California CO2 limit but at the expense of higher NOx emissions which are over the permissible limits thus creating the failure. The 2008 BMW diesels will address that and we should be all set to get diesels in the US from then on. The 2007 diesels from MB (with the new BlueTec emissions controls) aren't any better - they won't be 50 state legal until at least next year either.

s_henge

You maybe right about company cars (mine is not) but I reckon the majority of E60s are company cars. Why are V8s less popular in the UK? Is the price differential greater in the UK?

swajames

The vicious cycle of $8 per gallon and poor residuals (largely due to the $8 gas) is the killer back in the UK. Retained residuals in the US are broadly equivalent on I6's and V8 E60's (at least if BMWFS are to be believed).

SergeyM

Sorry, but it is not so. Lexus IS350 gets to 60 mph in 4.9 sec, GS350 in 5.3, G35 in 5.4. Acura TLS (FWD) in 5.7. Toyota Camry/Avalon, Honda Accord, all is in 6.1 - 6.6sec range. BMW 520d cannot match their performance. Even 535d cannot.

Someone mentioned Bentley and RR. Those two are very different. Bentleys, being rich man's BMWs, are very quick. If I am not mistaken mid 4s to 60mph. RR is a car that normally driven by hire and do not have to be quick, plus BMW just does not have a powerful enough engine for RR.

I think it comes down to personal values. I personally just like fast cars. So my car has to be decently powerful. For a heavy car like E60 it should have 380-400bhp. Especially because all modern V6 engines pushing 300 hp now. Why do you think Mercedes bump its most popular V8 from (US) 302 bhp to (US) 382 bhp. Because it is simply inappropriate to have V8 E/S-class with an engine that is less powerful that V6 Lexus.

dlevi67

The funny thing is that even at $8 / ?4 per US gallon (or 90p/litre), the running cost differential is tiny compared to the cost of the car and the depreciation. Assuming for a moment ECE combined figures:

520d @ 40 mpg(UK) - 15,000 miles = 375 gal / 1700l = ?1530
550i @ 25 mpg(UK) - 15,000 miles = 600 gal / 2700l = ?2450

Difference in running cost = ?920/year (of which ~?600 is tax)

Not huge when the car is ?45,000 to start with. However, it may make the difference 5 years down the line, when both the 550 and the 520 are in the ?8-12k range (the 520 having costed ~?4k/year in depreciation, and the 550 ?7k/year).

The difference in depreciation is hardly justifiable rationally just by looking at running cost differences (even adding on another few hundreds/year for insurance, road tax and maintenance)

dlevi67

Get your facts straight:

1. A 535d is officially doing 6.4 0-60, and faster in tests. So it's in the 6.1-6.6 range. I'd like to know who does that in everyday driving anyway (or 4.9 in a Lexus)

2. Bentley belongs to the Volkswagen/Audi group, so at most it's a rich person Audi, not BMW.

3. Even the fastest new Bentley does not do 4.5 0-60 (Continental GT quoted at 4.7), and pretty much all models are in the low-mid 5s, so comparable to a 545/550 E60. Does that bother the typical Bentley owner? The heck it does. Nor does it bother him or her that a mere Lexus is only 0.2 secs behind or in front. There's something else in life (and in a Bentley or a BMW) other than 0-60 figures

4. "BMW just does not have a powerful enough engine for RR" - really? Who do you think makes the current RR engines? Who do you think owns RR cars?

5. "[RR] do not have to be quick". The Phantom (the big one normally driven by a chaffeur) does 0-60 in 5.7 seconds. So it's among the slowest in the bunch you quote, but hardly a slouch. Again - does that bother the RR owner? No, because they haven't bought a Rolls to go on a quarter mile launch strip. They sponsor a dragster racing team for that.

You say you like fast cars. Try any of the others in a tight quarter mile slalom against a 530 or a 550, then tell me who's faster.

However, your definition of fast is 0-60. Fine. Get yourself a supercharged Ford Mustang, pocket the change, then enjoy the live axle rear suspension around each and every bend, appreciate the high quality materials, design and finish every second you are in the car. And accept that others have different values/needs/wants than simply "going fast" or having a bigger engine capacity/hp output/dick.

Specifications are public. If it bothers you that a BMW has 2, 20 or 200 bhp less than a Lexus/Toyota/whatever, or is 0.1/1/10 seconds slower 0-60, don't buy it. But stop making silly generalisations such as "inappropriate to have less power in a BMW than in x"