E60 not as good as old E39
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Originally Posted by kadafi39' post='806438' date='Mar 3 2009, 02:55 PM
Chris my information comes from personal experience, my dad is a solicitor that owns a legal firm and i am a trainee solicitor, so as you can imagine we have been through this before, its your money, but believe me you have a very slim chance of a court making a judgement in your favour. The sale of goods act while it is applicable you have to remember you purchased the car 2nd hand, not new so you don't have the same rights, as the faults were present when you purchased the car. Had you said i will buy the car provided this is fixed etc then that would become a term of the contract and you would have a high chance of a succesful claim. But i don't think you did, so the only reason you have any chance of a claim is because you purchased from someone "acting in the course of a business", but even then you have next to no chance of getting a good outcome.
If Chris has bought a used car from a *BMW dealer* under the *BMW Approved* scheme then in my opinion from the faults he has listed he does have a case against the dealer. Yes it was a used car and he didn't view it first but it sounds as though it falls below the required standard expected under the approved used scheme.
I agree that the dealer will not be liable for some of the cosmetic defects unless it made specific representations about the condition of the car in which case they would form express terms of the contract.
You would not expect a vehicle supplied by a BMW dealer to be suffering from the electrical and mechanical problems listed at the time of or shortly after supply. If there is a warranty the faults should be fixed under it in which case the dealer is in breach of contract for this also. If I was defending the dealer I would be advising them that they are partially liable and to settle out of Court.
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Originally Posted by dieseltouring' post='803790' date='Feb 28 2009, 06:14 AM
Hi all,
After five years in an E39 530d, taken the plunge and just bought a LCI E60 530d. Advice to others thinking of doing this? Think very carefully. There are improvements, but some things are significantly worse. Sad to say my >100k mile E39 is, overall the better car.
First the E60 positives:
Looks - M Sport E60 Makes the E39 look old inside and out. Hated look of E60 when it first came out, but it has aged very well and now looks great.
Interior feels special
iDrive / Sat Nav is a bit slow, but good despite what some say
Overall, refinement is better - but see comments below
Diesel engine note and lack of clatter is much more sophisticated
Slightly bigger and has more space
And the negatives: (big ones)
The fuel consumption is significantly worse. (thought mine was faulty, but read here and everyone is the same) LCI official figures are a joke
You feel more engine vibration through steering and pedals (particularly when cold and accelerating hard). Again, read here, others say the same
Low resonance at idle makes car noisy at rest
These are significant issues. How the LCI E60 can be less economical than a 10 year old design I have no idea, but it is. My consumption has decreased almost 20%. Ok I have gone from Manual to Auto, but with LCI difference should not be that big. I do almost all gentle motorway miles and have gone from 42mpg to 35 (brim to brim). Engine vibration too. Have BMW skimped on the engine mounts? The slight high frequency vibration through the steering spoils the up market feel of the car.
Small negatives:
Ride with RFT
Lack of small stowage space in the cabin
Smaller less useful door pockets
No adjustable seatbelt height
No Aux heater
No seperate intensive screen wash
No temp guage
No digital A/C heater temp displays
The E39 grew on me as the time went by. My two month view of the E60 is one of disappointment. If it was stolen, not sure I would replace it, which says it all.
After five years in an E39 530d, taken the plunge and just bought a LCI E60 530d. Advice to others thinking of doing this? Think very carefully. There are improvements, but some things are significantly worse. Sad to say my >100k mile E39 is, overall the better car.
First the E60 positives:
Looks - M Sport E60 Makes the E39 look old inside and out. Hated look of E60 when it first came out, but it has aged very well and now looks great.
Interior feels special
iDrive / Sat Nav is a bit slow, but good despite what some say
Overall, refinement is better - but see comments below
Diesel engine note and lack of clatter is much more sophisticated
Slightly bigger and has more space
And the negatives: (big ones)
The fuel consumption is significantly worse. (thought mine was faulty, but read here and everyone is the same) LCI official figures are a joke
You feel more engine vibration through steering and pedals (particularly when cold and accelerating hard). Again, read here, others say the same
Low resonance at idle makes car noisy at rest
These are significant issues. How the LCI E60 can be less economical than a 10 year old design I have no idea, but it is. My consumption has decreased almost 20%. Ok I have gone from Manual to Auto, but with LCI difference should not be that big. I do almost all gentle motorway miles and have gone from 42mpg to 35 (brim to brim). Engine vibration too. Have BMW skimped on the engine mounts? The slight high frequency vibration through the steering spoils the up market feel of the car.
Small negatives:
Ride with RFT
Lack of small stowage space in the cabin
Smaller less useful door pockets
No adjustable seatbelt height
No Aux heater
No seperate intensive screen wash
No temp guage
No digital A/C heater temp displays
The E39 grew on me as the time went by. My two month view of the E60 is one of disappointment. If it was stolen, not sure I would replace it, which says it all.
I leased a 2003 540i Sport for three years (2003-2006) and it was a wonderful, trouble-free car. I now have a 2009 550i Sport. I personally believe that the E60 550i Sport is a significant improvement to th 540i Sport. My car is very new so I cannot yet speak to its mechanical reliability. My 540i Sport was totally reliable and in about 55,000 miles of use I never once had a major mechanical problem or really any smaller problem either. The thing was bullet proof. But my experience with my 550i Sport is that it is both smoother and significantly more powerful than my 540i Sport was. I think that the E60 is a huge leap forward from the E39 (although I still think the E39 was the better looking car). My 550 transmits no driveline or steering vibrations. The big V8 in the 550 is as smooth as butter. I've always driven V8s and this one is the smoothest V8 I have ever had. The power comes on almost turbine-like -- feeling like a giant wave is pushing you forward. I can't speak to your engine as I don't have it.
Sorry to hear of the massive troubles you are having with your E60. For a minute, I thought I was reading a post about a Mercedes E Class!!
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Originally Posted by dieseltouring' post='803790' date='Feb 28 2009, 10:14 AM
Hi all,
After five years in an E39 530d, taken the plunge and just bought a LCI E60 530d. Advice to others thinking of doing this? Think very carefully. There are improvements, but some things are significantly worse. Sad to say my >100k mile E39 is, overall the better car.
First the E60 positives:
Looks - M Sport E60 Makes the E39 look old inside and out. Hated look of E60 when it first came out, but it has aged very well and now looks great.
Interior feels special
iDrive / Sat Nav is a bit slow, but good despite what some say
Overall, refinement is better - but see comments below
Diesel engine note and lack of clatter is much more sophisticated
Slightly bigger and has more space
And the negatives: (big ones)
The fuel consumption is significantly worse. (thought mine was faulty, but read here and everyone is the same) LCI official figures are a joke
You feel more engine vibration through steering and pedals (particularly when cold and accelerating hard). Again, read here, others say the same
Low resonance at idle makes car noisy at rest
These are significant issues. How the LCI E60 can be less economical than a 10 year old design I have no idea, but it is. My consumption has decreased almost 20%. Ok I have gone from Manual to Auto, but with LCI difference should not be that big. I do almost all gentle motorway miles and have gone from 42mpg to 35 (brim to brim). Engine vibration too. Have BMW skimped on the engine mounts? The slight high frequency vibration through the steering spoils the up market feel of the car.
Small negatives:
Ride with RFT
Lack of small stowage space in the cabin
Smaller less useful door pockets
No adjustable seatbelt height
No Aux heater
No seperate intensive screen wash
No temp guage
No digital A/C heater temp displays
The E39 grew on me as the time went by. My two month view of the E60 is one of disappointment. If it was stolen, not sure I would replace it, which says it all.
After five years in an E39 530d, taken the plunge and just bought a LCI E60 530d. Advice to others thinking of doing this? Think very carefully. There are improvements, but some things are significantly worse. Sad to say my >100k mile E39 is, overall the better car.
First the E60 positives:
Looks - M Sport E60 Makes the E39 look old inside and out. Hated look of E60 when it first came out, but it has aged very well and now looks great.
Interior feels special
iDrive / Sat Nav is a bit slow, but good despite what some say
Overall, refinement is better - but see comments below
Diesel engine note and lack of clatter is much more sophisticated
Slightly bigger and has more space
And the negatives: (big ones)
The fuel consumption is significantly worse. (thought mine was faulty, but read here and everyone is the same) LCI official figures are a joke
You feel more engine vibration through steering and pedals (particularly when cold and accelerating hard). Again, read here, others say the same
Low resonance at idle makes car noisy at rest
These are significant issues. How the LCI E60 can be less economical than a 10 year old design I have no idea, but it is. My consumption has decreased almost 20%. Ok I have gone from Manual to Auto, but with LCI difference should not be that big. I do almost all gentle motorway miles and have gone from 42mpg to 35 (brim to brim). Engine vibration too. Have BMW skimped on the engine mounts? The slight high frequency vibration through the steering spoils the up market feel of the car.
Small negatives:
Ride with RFT
Lack of small stowage space in the cabin
Smaller less useful door pockets
No adjustable seatbelt height
No Aux heater
No seperate intensive screen wash
No temp guage
No digital A/C heater temp displays
The E39 grew on me as the time went by. My two month view of the E60 is one of disappointment. If it was stolen, not sure I would replace it, which says it all.
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From: NY
My Ride: 2008 Silverstone II E60 M5 2012 E70 AW X5 50i Sport w/ LCI Aero Kit and Rocker Panels
I loved my E39 too, but I do have to say that all my E60's that I have owned have been far superior cars.
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Joined: Dec 2008
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From: The Netherlands
My Ride: '04 530d Executive, all options except sunroof and comfort seats
ECU remapped by ZipTuning to 260+bhp.
Sounds like you have bought a total lemon, but are too wimpy to admit it.
You're crapping on the E60, because you screwed up, not the car.
Every car, even the most expensive Rolls Royce or Aston Martin can be crappy if the previous owner drove it like a douche.
You ALWAYS need to check out a car, or let somebody you trust do it for you, even if it's on the other side of the world.
I've had NO troubles with my car, except for a broken airvent in the rear that i didn't notice on purchase. The dealer immediately ordered a new airvent and replaced it.
Moral of the story: always check up on the dealer AND the car...
You're crapping on the E60, because you screwed up, not the car.
Every car, even the most expensive Rolls Royce or Aston Martin can be crappy if the previous owner drove it like a douche.
You ALWAYS need to check out a car, or let somebody you trust do it for you, even if it's on the other side of the world.
I've had NO troubles with my car, except for a broken airvent in the rear that i didn't notice on purchase. The dealer immediately ordered a new airvent and replaced it.
Moral of the story: always check up on the dealer AND the car...
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 512
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From: Uk
My Ride: 535d
Originally Posted by dieseltouring' post='803790' date='Feb 28 2009, 10:14 AM
Hi all,
After five years in an E39 530d, taken the plunge and just bought a LCI E60 530d. Advice to others thinking of doing this? Think very carefully. There are improvements, but some things are significantly worse. Sad to say my >100k mile E39 is, overall the better car.
First the E60 positives:
Looks - M Sport E60 Makes the E39 look old inside and out. Hated look of E60 when it first came out, but it has aged very well and now looks great.
Interior feels special
iDrive / Sat Nav is a bit slow, but good despite what some say
Overall, refinement is better - but see comments below
Diesel engine note and lack of clatter is much more sophisticated
Slightly bigger and has more space
And the negatives: (big ones)
The fuel consumption is significantly worse. (thought mine was faulty, but read here and everyone is the same) LCI official figures are a joke
You feel more engine vibration through steering and pedals (particularly when cold and accelerating hard). Again, read here, others say the same
Low resonance at idle makes car noisy at rest
These are significant issues. How the LCI E60 can be less economical than a 10 year old design I have no idea, but it is. My consumption has decreased almost 20%. Ok I have gone from Manual to Auto, but with LCI difference should not be that big. I do almost all gentle motorway miles and have gone from 42mpg to 35 (brim to brim). Engine vibration too. Have BMW skimped on the engine mounts? The slight high frequency vibration through the steering spoils the up market feel of the car.
Small negatives:
Ride with RFT
Lack of small stowage space in the cabin
Smaller less useful door pockets
No adjustable seatbelt height
No Aux heater
No seperate intensive screen wash
No temp guage
No digital A/C heater temp displays
The E39 grew on me as the time went by. My two month view of the E60 is one of disappointment. If it was stolen, not sure I would replace it, which says it all.
After five years in an E39 530d, taken the plunge and just bought a LCI E60 530d. Advice to others thinking of doing this? Think very carefully. There are improvements, but some things are significantly worse. Sad to say my >100k mile E39 is, overall the better car.
First the E60 positives:
Looks - M Sport E60 Makes the E39 look old inside and out. Hated look of E60 when it first came out, but it has aged very well and now looks great.
Interior feels special
iDrive / Sat Nav is a bit slow, but good despite what some say
Overall, refinement is better - but see comments below
Diesel engine note and lack of clatter is much more sophisticated
Slightly bigger and has more space
And the negatives: (big ones)
The fuel consumption is significantly worse. (thought mine was faulty, but read here and everyone is the same) LCI official figures are a joke
You feel more engine vibration through steering and pedals (particularly when cold and accelerating hard). Again, read here, others say the same
Low resonance at idle makes car noisy at rest
These are significant issues. How the LCI E60 can be less economical than a 10 year old design I have no idea, but it is. My consumption has decreased almost 20%. Ok I have gone from Manual to Auto, but with LCI difference should not be that big. I do almost all gentle motorway miles and have gone from 42mpg to 35 (brim to brim). Engine vibration too. Have BMW skimped on the engine mounts? The slight high frequency vibration through the steering spoils the up market feel of the car.
Small negatives:
Ride with RFT
Lack of small stowage space in the cabin
Smaller less useful door pockets
No adjustable seatbelt height
No Aux heater
No seperate intensive screen wash
No temp guage
No digital A/C heater temp displays
The E39 grew on me as the time went by. My two month view of the E60 is one of disappointment. If it was stolen, not sure I would replace it, which says it all.
Mate, I know why you feel that way and I don't blame you at all. I had five 5-series before this E60 and all of them have certainly made me feel special in it. Typical BMW cars, superior in every way. The E60 has been a let down as you have mentioned but in my case, there was no going back to an older model when I decided to buy my E60.
I hate the looks on the outside, can put up with the interior but all the high tech stuff seems put together by people other than germans. The logic is all over the place and in some cases, total contradiction to ease of use. However, the one things that thankfully remained is that the car still drives as a BMW should. If it didn't then I could not fogive it.
I still like the E60 for the way it drives but I never forget the fond memories of my E34 M5 and E39 535i. Everything about those cars were like hand in a glove,.. perfect. I can't see myself buying the older cars though for I know they are beyond the sell-by dates. We just have to move on and live with what Chris Bungled has given us. The power is still good and thats a plus point. Try not to focus on the fuel efficiency of the diesel and you may begin to like the E60. Try it and let me know later.
cheers and I do wish you happy motoring.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 46
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From: Switzerland
My Ride: 01CA Selection of COP-relevant vehicles
02NP M Light-alloy wheels double spoke 135 M with runflat
0203 4-Traction System
0205 Automatic transmission
0216 Servotronic Steering
0300 Space Saver Wheel
0316 Automatic tailgate operation
0320 Without Script Name Plate
0322 Comfort access system
0337 M sport package
0386 Roof Railing
04M3 Interior trim finishers Alu Cube Pure
0417 Side window Sun Blind, Rear Door, Mechanical
0423 Velour floor mats
0428 Warning Triangle/First Aid Kit
0430 Automatic Dimming Interior Rearview Mirror
0431 Interior Mirror (photo-sensitive)
0442 Beverage Holder
0453 Air Conditioned Seat Front
0456 Electrical Adjustable Comfort Seats
0502 Headlight Washing System
0508 Park Distance Control (PDC)
0522 Xenon Headlights
0524 Adaptive driving Lights Control
0534 Automatic Air Conditioning
0540 Multifunction Steering Wheel Include. Cruise Control
0548 Speedometer in Kilometers per Hour
0563 Lights package
0609 Navigation System Professional w/TV and On-board Computer
0672 BMW 6-Disc CD Changer
0676 Premium Audio System
0698 Area Code 2 For DVD
0710 M Style Leather Steering Wheel
0715 M Aerodynamic Package
0760 Individual High-gloss Shadowline
0761 Individual Sun-Protection Glazing
0775 Individual Roof Headlining Anthracite
08SA Country-specific TeleService activation
08SP CO2 Emissions Control
0863 Service Contact Flyer Europe
0869 Radio Preparations for CH/DE
0879 German Language Owner's Manual
0896 Daytime Running Light Switch (Circuit)
0962 Country-specific Motor (Engine Mapping)
wow, that's funny topic you have here 
Just few things coming to my mind so i'd like to share:
1) fuel economy? How about Toyota Prius then? I mean, c'mon gents, you are owning premium segment cars. Just don't go into it if 10 mpg makes that difference. Difference that makes you unhappy. It might be a plus that comes along but not a must.
2) regarding list of issues/problems/etc. I have had some cars and usually, before going for it - home work is a must. If it's second hand - double home work. The price you pay by saving on that homework - from big to huge.
3) Quality/noise/etc. - i should say that i've tested all that looking close on my ride - there is nothing better right now.
Can't recall where i've heard that, but it was funny: One of the first signs of someone is getting old - he/she's complaining that there was a time when everything was much better (cars, people, food, etc)
Just few things coming to my mind so i'd like to share:
1) fuel economy? How about Toyota Prius then? I mean, c'mon gents, you are owning premium segment cars. Just don't go into it if 10 mpg makes that difference. Difference that makes you unhappy. It might be a plus that comes along but not a must.
2) regarding list of issues/problems/etc. I have had some cars and usually, before going for it - home work is a must. If it's second hand - double home work. The price you pay by saving on that homework - from big to huge.
3) Quality/noise/etc. - i should say that i've tested all that looking close on my ride - there is nothing better right now.
Can't recall where i've heard that, but it was funny: One of the first signs of someone is getting old - he/she's complaining that there was a time when everything was much better (cars, people, food, etc)
Senior Members
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 512
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From: Uk
My Ride: 535d
Originally Posted by aysc' post='824048' date='Mar 22 2009, 11:18 PM
wow, that's funny topic you have here
Just few things coming to my mind so i'd like to share:
1) fuel economy? How about Toyota Prius then? I mean, c'mon gents, you are owning premium segment cars. Just don't go into it if 10 mpg makes that difference. Difference that makes you unhappy. It might be a plus that comes along but not a must.
2) regarding list of issues/problems/etc. I have had some cars and usually, before going for it - home work is a must. If it's second hand - double home work. The price you pay by saving on that homework - from big to huge.
3) Quality/noise/etc. - i should say that i've tested all that looking close on my ride - there is nothing better right now.
Can't recall where i've heard that, but it was funny: One of the first signs of someone is getting old - he/she's complaining that there was a time when everything was much better (cars, people, food, etc)
Just few things coming to my mind so i'd like to share:
1) fuel economy? How about Toyota Prius then? I mean, c'mon gents, you are owning premium segment cars. Just don't go into it if 10 mpg makes that difference. Difference that makes you unhappy. It might be a plus that comes along but not a must.
2) regarding list of issues/problems/etc. I have had some cars and usually, before going for it - home work is a must. If it's second hand - double home work. The price you pay by saving on that homework - from big to huge.
3) Quality/noise/etc. - i should say that i've tested all that looking close on my ride - there is nothing better right now.
Can't recall where i've heard that, but it was funny: One of the first signs of someone is getting old - he/she's complaining that there was a time when everything was much better (cars, people, food, etc)
Its usually down to the vast years of experience so they know what they are saying when they compare something new against something of the past. Who better to give us all an insight. Someone who read it in a magazine or from someone who has actually driven it.
IMHO though..
cheers
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From: Northern Virginia - USA
My Ride: 2007 550i Jet Black|Black
Options: Sport|Premium|Cold Weather|PDC|Nav|Satellite Radio|Active Steering|Convenience Entry
Mods: Trinity Side Skirts|Trinity Black Grilles|LCI Tail Lights with Bruce V6|Fog Light Bezel Rings|MTEC V2 Angel Eyes|LED License Plate Lights
I had an e39 for 8 years. I loved the car! I think the styling of the e39 (especially in the later years with the angel eyes) is a classic and timeless design. While I own an e60, I an not a complete fan of the exterior styling. That much said, I love the technological advances of the e60 compared to what were in my e39. (convenience entry, blue tooth, park distance control, nav, etc.) I know many of these features came out in the later e39 years but I didn't have them in my 1998 model.
I will note for the record that the BMW implementation of it's user interface (i.e. iDrive) on the 2007 model doesn't even come close to what I had in my 2008 Acura RL, but that is a whole other story!
My timeless e39!
I will note for the record that the BMW implementation of it's user interface (i.e. iDrive) on the 2007 model doesn't even come close to what I had in my 2008 Acura RL, but that is a whole other story!
My timeless e39!
Thread Starter
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Hi all,
Six months into ownership it seems only fair to post an update on my view of the 530d E60. Like others have experienced, with time I have grown to love it.
Over the last 10k miles the engine has become smoother and quieter. The fuel consumpion has improved (getting 37/38 now) and I have cured the minor interior rattles and creaks. Finally, I have significantly improved the stereo with the easy addition of L7 tweeters and a Blaupunkt amp.
Some cars have instant showroom appeal (which often fades). The E60 is a car with enduring qualities that you appreciate more over time. The sport auto is fantastic and for a diesel the engine sounds great, almost V8 like when accelerating. The sport seats are comfortable all day and (a small thing this) the high gloss black trim sparkles in bright sunlight.
The ride is not great, the deep engine resonance at idle is too loud and the lack of interior storage remains an annoyance, but overall it is a great car. I still have and love my E39, but I have come round to feel the E60 is significantly better.
Six months into ownership it seems only fair to post an update on my view of the 530d E60. Like others have experienced, with time I have grown to love it.
Over the last 10k miles the engine has become smoother and quieter. The fuel consumpion has improved (getting 37/38 now) and I have cured the minor interior rattles and creaks. Finally, I have significantly improved the stereo with the easy addition of L7 tweeters and a Blaupunkt amp.
Some cars have instant showroom appeal (which often fades). The E60 is a car with enduring qualities that you appreciate more over time. The sport auto is fantastic and for a diesel the engine sounds great, almost V8 like when accelerating. The sport seats are comfortable all day and (a small thing this) the high gloss black trim sparkles in bright sunlight.
The ride is not great, the deep engine resonance at idle is too loud and the lack of interior storage remains an annoyance, but overall it is a great car. I still have and love my E39, but I have come round to feel the E60 is significantly better.
