das

Yes, but what happens to that when the DST changes go into effect? Sure, we could have a CIP upgrade between now and then, but what about people who don't get such an update?

I guess I'm wondering what going through the trouble to have the vehicle update itself for DST buys us, other than not having to change the offset from GMT twice a year, which takes about 15 seconds.
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Not sure I understand you 100%. You have a check box that lets you apply DST, or not.

Personally, I don't have a problem changing the time twice a year, but the thread is at 28 replies and counting
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No, what I mean is that an energy bill just passed that will change the DST start and end times. In the scenario where the DST switchover is encoded into the OS, that breaks when this changes (unless you get a software update in the meantime).

Since automatically updating the time for DST would be something that would ostensibly make life easier for the end user, it would be really confusing if this change didn't happen properly. Instead of deal with potential situations like that, in addition to many global differences in how time standards such as DST are applied, many different markets in which BMW wants to keep hardware and software QA as simple and straightforward as possible, it was probably decided to just let the customer set the offset from GMT.

The reason this thread has so many replies is because people are assuming this is a really easy thing to do since their phone and computer do it and that this must be yet another in a long line of boneheaded moves by BMW, but I'm saying that when applied to a vehicle, it isn't. Could it be done? Yes. Could it be done with potential data on the NAVTEQ disc, or potential functionality within Windows CE, or via WWV/WWVB, or via vehicle telematics (BMW Assist/Teleservice/Online)? Yes. You could also have a BMW butler reset your clock for you twice a year. There are a lot of ways it could be done. But it's not as easy and straightforward as it is on a phone or computer, period.

nicke60gre

Yes, but what happens to that when the DST changes go into effect? Sure, we could have a CIP upgrade between now and then, but what about people who don't get such an update?

I guess I'm wondering what going through the trouble to have the vehicle update itself for DST buys us, other than not having to change the offset from GMT twice a year, which takes about 15 seconds.

And Windows CE for Automotive Platforms doesn't necessarily share the same functionality with other CE/PocketPC devices. WinCE for Automotive is very targeted and customized to a manufacturer's specifications. That said, it may still contain the functionality...but again, it's my own personal opinion that this is a very low priority item globally. Others may disagree.
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I think its very easy via a software update at I-drive menu to give us the ability to choose between DST auto change and normal time (no auto update) to use it if something change to DST.

PS. my Nokia mobile have this ability!!

JDN

It would be more accurate to say "cars with NAV COULD update the clock, if a lot of time was invested in a relatively low priority item".
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True, but it's an $1800 option.

das

Yes, but as I've already said, it's extremely easy on a phone where the provision of time is already provided centrally by the network, and which are guaranteed to be in very close proximity to towers that automatically dictate their location. Doing it on phones is very easy for phone providers. It is simply not this easy on a vehicle, because it needs to get the data from somewhere, and GPS doesn't provide it. That means something has to be locally maintained in the car, whether it is data on the NAVTEQ disc (which would need to be updated) or functionality within iDrive (which would need to be updated). It's just not as simple as it is on a computer or a cell phone with an always-on connection.

das

It would be more accurate to say "cars with NAV COULD update the clock, if a lot of time was invested in a relatively low priority item".
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True, but it's an $1800 option.
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Perhaps we should explore how many other vehicles automatically update their clocks for DST, and how exactly they accomplish it (if they exist).

browellm

Yes, but what happens to that when the DST changes go into effect? Sure, we could have a CIP upgrade between now and then, but what about people who don't get such an update?

I guess I'm wondering what going through the trouble to have the vehicle update itself for DST buys us, other than not having to change the offset from GMT twice a year, which takes about 15 seconds.
[/quote]


Not sure I understand you 100%. You have a check box that lets you apply DST, or not.

Personally, I don't have a problem changing the time twice a year, but the thread is at 28 replies and counting
[/quote]

No, what I mean is that an energy bill just passed that will change the DST start and end times. In the scenario where the DST switchover is encoded into the OS, that breaks when this changes (unless you get a software update in the meantime).

Since automatically updating the time for DST would be something that would ostensibly make life easier for the end user, it would be really confusing if this change didn't happen properly. Instead of deal with potential situations like that, in addition to many global differences in how time standards such as DST are applied, many different markets in which BMW wants to keep hardware and software QA as simple and straightforward as possible, it was probably decided to just let the customer set the offset from GMT.

The reason this thread has so many replies is because people are assuming this is a really easy thing to do since their phone and computer do it and that this must be yet another in a long line of boneheaded moves by BMW, but I'm saying that when applied to a vehicle, it isn't. Could it be done? Yes. Could it be done with potential data on the NAVTEQ disc, or potential functionality within Windows CE, or via WWV/WWVB, or via vehicle telematics (BMW Assist/Teleservice/Online)? Yes. You could also have a BMW butler reset your clock for you twice a year. There are a lot of ways it could be done. But it's not as easy and straightforward as it is on a phone or computer, period.
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Sorry, but I don't agree.

Do you think MS will release an update for windows devices when your DST changes go through in 2007? Maybe, but probably not.

They will advise that you un-tick the check box that says "Use DST", and go to a purely manual offset.

This is embedded functionality, we are not talking about re-inventing the wheel

das

Actually, this is incorrect. Microsoft, or Apple, or whomever, doesn't HAVE to release an update, because the time isn't provided by the OS, it's provided via network time (NTP). Since this is maintained centrally (and will be updated for the DST changes), the DST change will still happen as expected, even if someone doesn't apply one update to their system between now and then. All devices that obtain time via NTP will all handle the time changes properly. This is yet another example of precisely why it's easy to do on a computer (which obtains its time via NTP) or a phone (which obtains its time from the provider's network) and not on a car, which has no such instantly arbitrarily updateable central source of data.

To be clear, yes, it could be done with telematics, and yes, it could be done via terrestrial time signal combined with vehicle location (either from GPS, or set by the end user). But this is a lot more work for something that's not very important.

browellm

No, it isn't.

Forget about NTP updates, they're irrelevant to the DST offset discussion (if not the accurate clock discussion).

DST changes work perfectly well offline (as I mentioned in a previous post).

Any Windows devce will update DST (assuming you have the check box ticked), without being connected to a network.

At the risk of repeating myself, the functionality is embedded.

Bimmer32

Actually, this is incorrect. Microsoft, or Apple, or whomever, doesn't HAVE to release an update, because the time isn't provided by the OS, it's provided via network time (NTP). Since this is maintained centrally (and will be updated for the DST changes), the DST change will still happen as expected, even if someone doesn't apply one update to their system between now and then. All devices that obtain time via NTP will all handle the time changes properly. This is yet another example of precisely why it's easy to do on a computer (which obtains its time via NTP) or a phone (which obtains its time from the provider's network) and not on a car, which has no such instantly arbitrarily updateable central source of data.

To be clear, yes, it could be done with telematics, and yes, it could be done via terrestrial time signal combined with vehicle location (either from GPS, or set by the end user). But this is a lot more work for something that's not very important.
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Atomic clock anyone? Even a cheap $30 dollor weather clock can detect atomic time signals. Didn't someone here mentioned that MB has it in their cars? Beside, what's the big deal with changing the time twice a year? Changing time on a wall clock is more tedious than changing time on a BMW, or any car.

Why do we even have DST in the first place? Was it because Fall as short days and spring has longer day? Who cares we have electricity now.

Mr.PC

As has already been mentioned, the U.S. Congress, in its infinite wisdom, has decreed that Daylight/Standard change dates will be different from the entire rest of the world. Putting aside the question of whether our BMWs adapt with the appropriate degree of automation (I like the opportunity to play with iDrive), it will surely be a pain for anyone who has business dealings between the U.S. and the rest of the world ...... What time is it over there now? ...........