daylight saveings time
10-31-2005, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by UUronL' date='Oct 30 2005, 08:37 PM
[quote name='buddy' date='Oct 30 2005, 09:32 PM']I can not believe that a car of this technological promise did not even adjust the clock itself.? Man did we get shafted or what?
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I was thinking much the same thing this morning...
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[/quote]make the 3 of us! I was thinking exactly the same on Sunday after I stepped in to go for my Sunday Ride. This sunday I only did 180miles
10-31-2005, 04:17 AM
#12
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Originally Posted by stafli' date='Oct 31 2005, 08:07 AM
This should be easy. I guess the GPS-satellites have a very accurat time. At least the RDS (where working) could do the job. Even Microsoft Windows will adjust time by itself...
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I'm not sure but I think my 2005 Honda Odyssey sets the clock via satellite as well (I know for sure that it changes the clock as you drive across time zone boundaries...)
10-31-2005, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Flowerfred' date='Oct 31 2005, 02:51 AM
I bet that's the real reason for daylight savings... Gives people something to moan about..
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cheers
vern
10-31-2005, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudy' date='Oct 31 2005, 09:17 AM
[quote name='stafli' date='Oct 31 2005, 08:07 AM']This should be easy. I guess the GPS-satellites have a very accurat time. At least the RDS (where working) could do the job. Even Microsoft Windows will adjust time by itself...
[snapback]191205[/snapback]
I'm not sure but I think my 2005 Honda Odyssey sets the clock via satellite as well (I know for sure that it changes the clock as you drive across time zone boundaries.)
For me, it's no big deal to have to change the clock twice a year. The nice thing about setting the clock via satellite is that it doesn't drift so the time is always accurate...
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[/quote]
10-31-2005, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by vern' date='Oct 31 2005, 08:27 AM
[quote name='Flowerfred' date='Oct 31 2005, 02:51 AM']I bet that's the real reason for daylight savings... Gives people something to moan about..
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cheers
vern
[snapback]191227[/snapback]
[/quote]Come on, that's hardly warranted. If I can buy a $25 watch that can set itself based on radio signals from the atomic clocks, we should be able to get the same technology in a car with how many transceivers? It wouldn't be so bad if there weren't so many different avenues they could have utilized to provide this function.
And the only thing in my house that -didn't- auto sync was my microwave and my range.
10-31-2005, 05:03 AM
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But if the car can adjust daylight saving time, we all have another 'excuse' to update our software again before 2007! (When the dst is changing) 
Now...I wonder what's gonna happen to all the automatic changing ones ... MS Windows...
Now...I wonder what's gonna happen to all the automatic changing ones ... MS Windows...
10-31-2005, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by UUronL' date='Oct 31 2005, 08:53 AM
[quote name='vern' date='Oct 31 2005, 08:27 AM'][quote name='Flowerfred' date='Oct 31 2005, 02:51 AM']I bet that's the real reason for daylight savings... Gives people something to moan about..
[snapback]191181[/snapback]
cheers
vern
[snapback]191227[/snapback]
[/quote]Come on, that's hardly warranted. If I can buy a $25 watch that can set itself based on radio signals from the atomic clocks, we should be able to get the same technology in a car with how many transceivers? It wouldn't be so bad if there weren't so many different avenues they could have utilized to provide this function.
And the only thing in my house that -didn't- auto sync was my microwave and my range.
[snapback]191234[/snapback]
[/quote]Like is said many many times in this forum as well as others just something else to go wrong.
cheers
vern
10-31-2005, 05:53 AM
#18
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There are many reasons why a vehicle wouldn't adjust itself for daylight savings time.
First, cell phones can do it because they have a limited range from towers that are in a known time zone, and the provider already provides the time as it is.
Second, computers can do it because the default for any modern computer running Windows or Mac OS X is such that they synchronize your time with a network time server running the NTP protocol, and you have already specified which time zone your computer is in and whether or not you are in a locale with Daylight Savings Time. When the time changes, it gets updated via NTP.
I wouldn't say it's "easy" for a car to do it, or even for GPS to do it. GPS timekeeping is done with GMT/UTC time. It has no idea where your vehicle is. Now you might say, well, my *vehicle* knows where it is; after all, I have GPS! Yes. But then who maintains a profile for all geographic areas in the United States and provides that to the vehicle? NAVTEQ, perhaps? Ok, they could, and then provide an API for the automotive manufacturers to use the data, and BMW could then provide the ability to reset the clock for DST via iDrive. But then what happens when an energy bill gets passed that changes the DST switchover by about a month? How does your car find out about it? I've seen some people suggest an FM radio station. Sure, but then there would have to be a universally accepted standard for such a situation, and further, you're not guaranteed to be in the same time zone as a particular FM radio station under all circumstances. The bottom line is that it's not as easy as you think, and is *much* easier to have you, the user, change your offset from GMT twice a year. Other devices that reset their time do so because they can, easily. Your car can't. (Now, with a telematics service like BMW Online or BMW Assist/Teleservice, they could theoretically reset your clock as long as you maintained a profile with your timezone, or BMW built a service that used the GPS in your vehicle to determine your location for purposes of setting time. But this probably isn't a really high priority, as one would imagine.)
First, cell phones can do it because they have a limited range from towers that are in a known time zone, and the provider already provides the time as it is.
Second, computers can do it because the default for any modern computer running Windows or Mac OS X is such that they synchronize your time with a network time server running the NTP protocol, and you have already specified which time zone your computer is in and whether or not you are in a locale with Daylight Savings Time. When the time changes, it gets updated via NTP.
I wouldn't say it's "easy" for a car to do it, or even for GPS to do it. GPS timekeeping is done with GMT/UTC time. It has no idea where your vehicle is. Now you might say, well, my *vehicle* knows where it is; after all, I have GPS! Yes. But then who maintains a profile for all geographic areas in the United States and provides that to the vehicle? NAVTEQ, perhaps? Ok, they could, and then provide an API for the automotive manufacturers to use the data, and BMW could then provide the ability to reset the clock for DST via iDrive. But then what happens when an energy bill gets passed that changes the DST switchover by about a month? How does your car find out about it? I've seen some people suggest an FM radio station. Sure, but then there would have to be a universally accepted standard for such a situation, and further, you're not guaranteed to be in the same time zone as a particular FM radio station under all circumstances. The bottom line is that it's not as easy as you think, and is *much* easier to have you, the user, change your offset from GMT twice a year. Other devices that reset their time do so because they can, easily. Your car can't. (Now, with a telematics service like BMW Online or BMW Assist/Teleservice, they could theoretically reset your clock as long as you maintained a profile with your timezone, or BMW built a service that used the GPS in your vehicle to determine your location for purposes of setting time. But this probably isn't a really high priority, as one would imagine.)
10-31-2005, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by das' date='Oct 31 2005, 09:53 AM
There are many reasons why a vehicle wouldn't adjust itself for daylight savings time.
First, cell phones can do it because they have a limited range from towers that are in a known time zone, and the provider already provides the time as it is.
Second, computers can do it because the default for any modern computer running Windows or Mac OS X is such that they synchronize your time with a network time server running the NTP protocol, and you have already specified which time zone your computer is in and whether or not you are in a locale with Daylight Savings Time. When the time changes, it gets updated via NTP.
I wouldn't say it's "easy" for a car to do it, or even for GPS to do it. GPS timekeeping is done with GMT/UTC time. It has no idea where your vehicle is. Now you might say, well, my *vehicle* knows where it is; after all, I have GPS! Yes. But then who maintains a profile for all geographic areas in the United States and provides that to the vehicle? NAVTEQ, perhaps? Ok, they could, and then provide an API for the automotive manufacturers to use the data, and BMW could then provide the ability to reset the clock for DST via iDrive. But then what happens when an energy bill gets passed that changes the DST switchover by about a month? How does your car find out about it? I've seen some people suggest an FM radio station. Sure, but then there would have to be a universally accepted standard for such a situation, and further, you're not guaranteed to be in the same time zone as a particular FM radio station under all circumstances. The bottom line is that it's not as easy as you think, and is *much* easier to have you, the user, change your offset from GMT twice a year. Other devices that reset their time do so because they can, easily. Your car can't. (Now, with a telematics service like BMW Online or BMW Assist/Teleservice, they could theoretically reset your clock as long as you maintained a profile with your timezone, or BMW built a service that used the GPS in your vehicle to determine your location for purposes of setting time. But this probably isn't a really high priority, as one would imagine.)
First, cell phones can do it because they have a limited range from towers that are in a known time zone, and the provider already provides the time as it is.
Second, computers can do it because the default for any modern computer running Windows or Mac OS X is such that they synchronize your time with a network time server running the NTP protocol, and you have already specified which time zone your computer is in and whether or not you are in a locale with Daylight Savings Time. When the time changes, it gets updated via NTP.
I wouldn't say it's "easy" for a car to do it, or even for GPS to do it. GPS timekeeping is done with GMT/UTC time. It has no idea where your vehicle is. Now you might say, well, my *vehicle* knows where it is; after all, I have GPS! Yes. But then who maintains a profile for all geographic areas in the United States and provides that to the vehicle? NAVTEQ, perhaps? Ok, they could, and then provide an API for the automotive manufacturers to use the data, and BMW could then provide the ability to reset the clock for DST via iDrive. But then what happens when an energy bill gets passed that changes the DST switchover by about a month? How does your car find out about it? I've seen some people suggest an FM radio station. Sure, but then there would have to be a universally accepted standard for such a situation, and further, you're not guaranteed to be in the same time zone as a particular FM radio station under all circumstances. The bottom line is that it's not as easy as you think, and is *much* easier to have you, the user, change your offset from GMT twice a year. Other devices that reset their time do so because they can, easily. Your car can't. (Now, with a telematics service like BMW Online or BMW Assist/Teleservice, they could theoretically reset your clock as long as you maintained a profile with your timezone, or BMW built a service that used the GPS in your vehicle to determine your location for purposes of setting time. But this probably isn't a really high priority, as one would imagine.)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_clock#T...al_time_signals
Issues of timezone are a common problem with any device or system so I hardly think it deserves being labeled the kiss of death for this sort of solution. The user sets his timezone on a PC too remember? As with many things, thinking about a problem in IT or IP networking terms doesn't always render the most streamlined solution.
10-31-2005, 06:25 AM
#20
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Originally Posted by UUronL' date='Oct 31 2005, 09:20 AM
Infrastructure exists today to support this - there are terrestrial time signals all over the world with enough coverage and strength that a measly little digital watch can pick it up on watch battery power.? There is support for automatic daylight savings changes from the atomic clock signal, a feature that can be turned off on the receiving watch device if such support is not needed.?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_clock#T...al_time_signals
Issues of timezone are a common problem with any device or system so I hardly think it deserves being labeled the kiss of death for this sort of solution.? The user sets his timezone on a PC too remember?? As with many things, thinking about a problem in IT or IP networking terms doesn't always render the most streamlined solution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_clock#T...al_time_signals
Issues of timezone are a common problem with any device or system so I hardly think it deserves being labeled the kiss of death for this sort of solution.? The user sets his timezone on a PC too remember?? As with many things, thinking about a problem in IT or IP networking terms doesn't always render the most streamlined solution.
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And yes, the user sets the timezone on a PC, but the PC is generally stationary or used in a single timezone - and doesn't update itself if it is moved to another timezone. Not to mention that it updates for DST via the network.
Terrestrial time signals (the old WWV and WWV
still require that the timezone be set on the device. Now, if you're saying that BMW could have done it that way, sure, they could have - I won't argue with you there. But GPS already provides time, and all the end user has to do is change the offset if applicable twice a year. It doesn't seem like too much of an inconvenience to me given the alternative, but hey, that's just my opinion.