smartshah

Hi All,

I just would like to share my experience with everyone that owns, an E60 or any car with an M57 engine. Albeit if the alternator is the same, but it should apply to most E60 530D, 535D and M5 v10.

Since owning the car, I noticed that there was a loud ticking sound, which sounded like it was coming from the injectors, as the sound was from the drivers side of the engine (UK).

I have replaced the Turbo actuators all three on that side, from BMW. But the sound remained. Replaced all Vac hoses with silicone but sound remained.

Recently brought the whole timing chain kit, including oil pump from BMW. Gaskets, sump gasket, Head Gasket, valve oil seals, oil cooler, engine mounts, injector seals everything from BMW, water pump and the pulley kit. New bolts etc. Parts cost me £500 plus for the water pump, engine mounts, pulley kit and drive belts. £830 for all the timing chain kit, and another £100 plus for the head gasket, £80 head bolts, £20 valve seals, £140 small turbo core. Exhaust manifold gaskets and bolts, intake manifold gaskets etc.

Took 3 weeks to do everything, whilst i was working too. Spent alot of money on this car, but they dont make them like this anymore.

Anyway the rattle sound got worse. After putting the car back together. The revs used to bounce when car was cold, before but now it got worse. I had the injectors tested by BOSCH machine, strange they all came back perfect, 3 needed adjustment...dont know what that was...but maybe needed cleaning out.

Anyway, this rattling sound and engine not idling smooth got worse over the next few days. When the engine would be idling, there was an odd rattle sound.

Eventually the engine began to stall, and codes for transmission and low charge or charging faults began to appear on the Idrive. So this issue had been getting worse. Occasionally when I cruised on the motorway, the revs would start to flicker up and down at just say around 60mph. And no its not a torque converter issue. It only done it some times, very rarely.

The car would Occasionally cut out for a split second and come back on. No fault codes, nothing. Thought it was one of the injectors, or the Fuel pump module. Replaced that with a used one. But no it wasn't that.

The car got worse last week. When I start it in the morning and use the wipers to clean the screen, they were very slow and seemed they did not have enough power. So I thought the battery is giving up, as there may be a parasitic drain, or I may not have connected the earth cable, or missed something out. There was a fault for DDE, now too. Opened up the DDE box, and looked at the cables.. all were fine.

So the following day, the car began to struggle to idle, and cut out twice on me throwing Gearbox codes and charging fault. So I got worried, thought I done something wrong, as I never had these issues before I changed the timing chain.. by the way I watched alot of YouTube videos, in particular the CRANK channel, his videos are soo informative they helped me alot. I would have done it anyway, but his tips and hints and explanation were bang on. I took the engine out,.of the car and built it in my shed, whilst the car was on the drive. It weighs a ton.

I had a look at the bearings..rod bearings and main bearings all were like new. I replaced the bolts got them very cheap from BMW. Thought I might aswell check them.

Anyway back to the issue at hand. So the following complaints were noticed:-

- Intermittent stalling for a split second,.probably once every 3 months
- Pulsating sound coming from the engine bay, injectors or turbo actuators, or vac lines...Actuators replaced, vac lines replaced injectors tested with bosch equipment, 3 were clogged needed cleaning/adjustment
- Noise Still there
- Irratic idling got worse
- Car began to stall, after timing chain job
- Idling was worse when cold
- Wipers working laboured when starting from cold
- Charging Fault appeared
- Gearbox Fault appeared

So I then looked on the Internet, and began looking through forums. And came across a website, talking about a voltage regulator. All my current symptoms were pointing at that.
- rough idling
- all sorts of codes on the dash
- stalling
- poor acceleration response.

I called BMW and ordered it. It was £145, but with discount I got it for £124. Shout out to the parts department.

I thought it will be an easy job to replace this. As it is the same alternator as the M5 V10.
Anyway decided to have a crack at this on Friday. Disconnected battery, did not close the boot lid. Those of you know why, for those who don't...just leave the boot open.

Removed the 13mm bolt holding the power cable to the alternator
Removed the connector to the regulator
And then spent 2 hours fighting with the alternator back cover which is clipped in. Did not want to break it. It eventually clipped off with gentle twist and wedging a big flat head screwdriver.
Once that come off it was 2 7mm bolts and one 7mm screw on the top, this one is the hardest to get a straight socket on.. you need a wiggly bit and a deep thin socket as the oil filter housing is in the way. Just crack it loose, and undo it with hand.
Out comes the regulator.
The new one from BMW has the clip latched so the brushes don't protrude all the way and it helps with installing.
Fit it on, do all the screws up there is 3 of them.
Then firmly push the clip in to release the brushes you will hear and feel a loud click.
Put everything back together start with the plastic alternator cover
Then the power wires
Then the battery cable.

Start the car, and give it a couple of days. You will notice it drive much smoother, in my case all ticking sounds have gone..erratic idling gone. Idles don't bounce anymore randomly.

if you have the above cars, I highly recommend you change this but. You can get them OE part for around £60, but I just wanted piece of mind and get it from BMW.

seanjordan20

Damn you went around the world to fix a voltage regulator. Lol. Good on you for keeping at it. A lot of people have this exact issue and never thought about the alternator.

smartshah

I just could not believe it that something like a voltage regulator would be causing all these issues.

When I first got the car 2 years ago, I picked it up at a good price, gearbox and torque converter were gone, but I knew that, so I haggled the price. And then sent it to a gearbox specialist to have it rebuilt including the torque converter.

But this loud pulsating sound was still there.

So I changed all pressure regulators for the turbos, new silicone hoses with 3mm ID.

Car would randomly stall on the motorway doing 70mph plus only for a split second. It stalled at 20 mph for a split second.. and once or twice stationary too. I read about this issue, and everything was pointing to failed injectors, intermittent. It does make sense, because the car is designed to shut off if the DDE detects excessive return from the injector(s).

So timing chain and oil pump, water pump, pulleys engine mounts, head gasket were all done as a preventative maintenance, straight after this, the issue with rough idling got worse. And it began trying to stall, and throwing all sorts of codes.

Had it checked by a good specialist, and he said the DDE is faulty and needs to be replaced. But that did not make sense to me. ISTA threw all sorts of codes.

So out of the blue I just went down the Voltage Regulator route, as I was getting charging faults too. Which I did not previously.
I was definitely going to change the alternator at first. So I looked at the symptoms caused by Voltage Regulator. And decided to go with my instinct and start off with the VR.

it took literally 2 hours to do, I got stuck on the plastic cover for around 2 hours itself.

The symptoms would even make one believe that the engine is knackered as there are weird noises and erratic idling.

My best advice to anyone, with the above mentioned cars, is to change the VR every 2 years, it will prolong your alternator. And it should take no longer than 30 mins.. access pretty good, you dont even need to jack up the car. Unless you have the M5, access is limited. But there are a few YouTube videos. But you will need to jack the car up.

Easy way to diagnose it, is put multimeter on the front positive and negative points, when car is cold start it up, if you get jumpy voltage thats he first symptom, get a friend to rev the engine and the voltage bounces from like 11 volts to 15 volts.

But in my case these symptoms were apparent after the Voltage Regulator was totally gone. As these are obvious symptoms of a VR.

If its been 2 years, and you don't know if it has been done, change it. And get the part from BMW. I have been stung by alot of electrical copy parts. So I tend to go to the main dealer, unless I trust the supplier.
I tried a Well known supplier online, for a CV joint for the same car and they sent me a outer CV joint for an E36. And it is meant to be GKN part, and I matched it with my GKN Lobro driveshaft which I had out the car and, they looked completely different. No refund given, no return initiated. I just brought a reman GKN Driveshaft.

I hope this post helps others with the sane alternator

habbyguy

With the E60 - as well as almost all modern cars - the reliance on sophisticated microprocessor modules to control almost everything means that any problem with voltage will manifest in lots of seemingly unrelated problems. I've read hundreds of similar posts.

smartshah

So have I, but this issue kinda did not manifest itself this obvious. There were other symptoms that, you would not even assume it would be something like a VR.

Rough idling only sometimes
Poor acceleration from giveaways.. or from stand still at a roundabout.
Loud pulsating noise only in Drive, not in reverse
Stalling for a split second irrelevant if warm or cold

Anyways I hope this post helps others

smartshah

Hi Guys

I am back and the slight misfire is back. After changing the voltage regulator, things were sorted regarding the charging issue. And it behaved a little better. But the slight idle deviation was still there but not as bad.

So far I have changed the following since my last post:-

- Positive Battery Cable as there was airbag warnings
- Negative Battery Cable as there was bad IBS warnings
- Brand New OEM Bosch MAF
- Vacuum lines have already been done over a year ago with silicone ones
- EGR is mapped closed
- New Aftermarket Alternator (made no difference) I thought it may be the alternator diodes

The car has swirlflaps blanked
Vortex type PCV not the loo roll
- INPA shows injector 3 and 6 running close to +2/3

I have read about another guy who blanked his swirl flaps and said that he had several issues just like me, and he put them back in and the issues got resolved. He said he had

​​​​​​- Poor idling
- Poor gear changes
- Poor Low end torque

I don't smell any fumes inside the cabin, so I suppose we can rule out the exhaust manifold. The car has had its timing chain done along with other bits which I have mentioned in my previous post.
Prior to the timing chains, idle issue was there

Now I am leaning towards an air leak somewhere, possibly from the inlet manifold, as I have heard that it may need to be cleaned, it was pretty sooty.
I got the cylinder head off whilst doing the timing chain, so it was professionally cleaned and skimmed ever so slightly.

So there are a couple of possibilities I can think of now:-

​​​​​​- Injectors 3 and 6
- Injectors are not seated properly
- Intake manifold has an air leak
- Bypass valve sticking
- Wastegate sticking
- Crank Pulley
- Replace all Boost hose gaskets, I have replaced the upper boost hose connected to the Throttle valve it had a hole in it.
- My AC pump has gone, maybe that is sticking and causing this issue, I have brought a second hand to rule that out.
I have read mixed views on the AC pulley, that if it fails it shouldn't interfere with the running of the engine, but others have said it does cause a lumpy idle. It is getting worse now, as it is noticly whining lol

I have brought the BMW tool to measure the actuator rod length and it is bang on.

I may just go ahead and buy a smoke machine for a £100 on eBay and smoke test it.

Anyone else experienced this?

Also one more thing, I done the combox and cic retrofit, but it never shows the oil level in the idrive. So I have brought a new OEM Hella Oil Level sensor, apparently they have a temp sensor built in and if that fails, it won't read the level on the I drive.

I shall keep you posted and let you know what fixes it.

I have ordered a Used inlet manifold with all the flaps in place, will clean it up thoroughly before fitting it on. Anyone had a go at cleaning these properly?

​​​​​​Otherwise I will get Sodium Hydroxide 1kg, in a big tub filled with water and dip this in for 24 hours. And then jet wash or hose it down.

Any input is appreciated

smartshah

Hi All,

Just to give you all an update, I think I have finally got to the bottom of this one.
Although I believe I still have a couple of bad injectors and need to rebuild the Valve body on the transmission, as it has been rebuilt by a reputable firm, but they never done the actual valve body and I am getting lumpy shifts. Next big DIY.

Anyways without digressing too much.

I believe I have found the root cause of the erratic idling on this one.

I can't remember which post I read, which made me go in that direction to investigate, however here is the funny part, ISTA had logged this error so many times:-

DDE power management battery
DDE voltage supply

This was there when I first brought the car. Me being me, I thought let's replace the battery.

Replaced battery
Replaced voltage regulator genuine new
Replaced IBS
Replaced battery positive cable

​​​​​​As had airbag warnings and IBS warnings. But never suspected the DDE.

Anyway yesterday I decided to investigate the DDE, as I seriously thought I have engine grounding issues. Already placed an order for the following

Suppression cable interference
Ground cable
Was contemplating replacing the glow plug controller, even brought a spare intake manifold.

I digress again

Anyway as I opened the DDE cover had a look at it, I noticed the cream or white silicone sealant has mould around the corner closest to the inner corner of the scuttle panel, where water possibly would be dripping from.

So I then unlocked the DDE, removed the battery negative cable, and did not shut the trunk door... Lol. (although I have retrofitted folding seats).
Undone the smaller plug, and looked at it, and to my surprise PIN 1, 3, 5 on the following plug x2412 corroded and rotted. Looked at the DDE pins, and they were corroded too. The ground pins on the DDE were beginning to corrode too.

So I tried my best to clean the pins on the DDE, with a toothbrush and isopropyl alcohol. But only got a little off. Then tried to clean the connectors on the plug in situ but must have succeed partially.
The connectors will have to be removed and replaced honestly speaking, and the ground connectors need to be looked at too.

On this plug x2412

PIN 1 Battery Positive
PIN 2 Ground
PIN 3 Battery Positive
PIN 4 Ground
PIN 5 Battery Positive
PIN 6 Ground

This plug is at the top when the DDE is at home position, and the side the 3 pins are the closest to the corner of the scuttle panel, hence all 3 of them are corroded.

The cause of this is the failure of the silicone bead around the lid of the ECU box. I believe originally the bead of silicone sealant on the ridges was not applied correctly and possibly a defect.

Solution

Pull the connectors out of the plug, all 6 I don't really think there is a particular order to these, but follow the diagram on TIS.
Possibly clean the connectors thoroughly and the plug, or replace the connectors and the plug.
As for the DDE box lid, you can buy a new lid from BMW for £20 to £30, or head over to a hardware store and buy silicone sealant, same thing used in the bathrooms.
Remove the old sealant with screwdriver and knife, and apply the sealant and let it cure, until dry and then refit it. Sealant cost no more than £5. About 30 mins or less to remove previous sealant. Idea is not to glue the lid shut, but protect it against moisture.

This has been causing all sorts of headaches and reading my previous posts, I have been chasing this problem for a long time.

Or replace the PINS, and the plug here are the part numbers

Connector Plug £8
X2412
BMW Part 12517788125

Connector Pins around £10
BMW Part: 12521433216 or 12527502933 X 10
You require 6 but I purchased 10. Probably can get them way cheaper from RS Farnell Mouser or Digikey

DDE Box cover around £30 BMW
BMW Part No. 12907520912
It comes with screws

You will need following tools

Disconnect Negative Battery terminal
5MM hex key
Quality wirestripper
Quality wire cutters
Terminal Removing tool
(The terminal Removing tool did not really work for PIN 1, 3, 5 (POWER PINS) as they were heavily corroded, so I had to force them out. PINs 2, 4, 6 (GROUND PINS) came out easily
The ground pins were perfectly reusable but I replaced them anyway.
Quality open barrel crimping tool (do not use tweezers etc, just get the tool which crimps from 1.0mm to 3.0mm terminals
Clean the ground cable from the even pins to the body on the right
If the PINS are corroded on the DDE,
Nail Files
Tweezers
And gently rub them down until the green crust is gone
You can also create a vinegar and salt solution, and immerse the connector side until the pins are fully immersed in the solution. For around 5 mins. And then rinse the pins off with baking soda and water.
And then you will still need to agitate the pins to remove the corrosion, with a sanding file.
Then use contact cleaner spray as it has pressure to spray them clean.

Total cost:

Plug £8
Contact Pins £10
Lid £30

£50

Total time: 2 hours do not rush this take your time

(DO NOT IMMERSE THE WHOLE DDE INTO THE VINEGAR SOLUTION, JUST THE PINS!!!)

Summary

Prior to this my Injectors especially 3 and 6 were showing values of +3.5 and +3
Voltage monitoring was showing 12 to 14 volts whilst the engine was idling, it bloody looked like a misfire.

Now voltage is showing between 14.4 and 14.6 volts
Injectors 3, 6 are no showing values of +0.5


Next to do list:-

- Injector removal for testing
- Track control arms at the front
- Coolant Flush
- Valve body rebuild on the ZF6HP26Z
- AC Pump

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