pennetta

They are going to run into the same problems with the F10 550 and M5 as they did with the E60 550 and 535, if you download software into the F10 550 it will be faster than the F10 M5. Since the new TT V8 is already out in the X6, there will be plenty of time for Dinan/Vishnu/JB to deliver the goods.

mhs525

Having owned an M car and now a NA BMW V8 I will miss the NA cars. The high rev high horsepower M motors are works of art and a thrill to drive and own. I have tried several 335i's and they are nice but I still feel turbo lag and much prefer the E46 straight six in my old M3. That was a beautiful motor and I had no problem getting 20mpg in light normal driving. I hope to grab one of the E90 M3's some day...

zen68

I'm pretty sure engines of AMG division are supercharged.

BMW designs better engine than MB. Look at how much power they were able to squeeze out of the S54 engine (3.0L I-6, 333 HP, e46 M3). They won more "International Engine of the year" awards than most of their competitors. BMW always prefers high rev, NA engine because of their experience with formula 1 racing engines.

MB is more like GM. Drop a large displacement engine and supercharge the crap out of it.

pennetta

Those that have actually owned turbo charged cars would know that the TT 3.0 does not have turbo lag. Turbo charging has been around in productions cars since 1962 (Chevrolet Corvair and Oldsmobile Cutlas Jetfire) and it will be the future of performance cars going forward. I had a Nissan 300ZX Turbo back when. TT's are essentially a variable displacement engine, without the negative effects of dragging shutoff cylinders/pistons/valvetrains.
Their benefits over superchargers is that SC are mechanically driven and are always creating boost and using engine power to run them. Turbos use exhaust gas that is already being expelled from the engine system and they are load driven, meaning if you are running at a steady state then little boost is being created so it uses fuel like a 3.0 litre. Create boost and 4.5 litres of fuel/air mixture is being forced into the engine so it make the power and uses the gas as a 4.5 litre.
I agree that the high whine of an 8,000 RPM motor sounds great, I did own a Acura GSX-Type R with one. High RPM builds horsepower, displacement or forced displacement builds torque which also has a great feeling and you don't have to be driving all balls out to enjoy it.

einstein57

Its a said day when you can no longer get a high revving ///M power plant. They should come out with an M technic that uses the TT engine, and a true M car with a high revving super engine. I'd expect this from a company like Mercedes but not BMW. I remember reading how they would never badge an X5 with an M because it would not live up to the motorsports criteria (high revving engine, available manual transmission, and superior handling characteristics) because it was not nimble enough. They also went on to say the the M8 barely met the motorsports criteria. So having a M X6 is blasphemy to the hardcore enthusiast and the prior engineers who worked so hard to give credibility to the ///M badge. The M badge will now be like GM's SS badging. A badge of honor will now be a marketing tool.

550isport

This news is bittersweet I think. The V10 and E90 V8 are essentially racing engines with improved longevity and smoothness for street use. Nothing from Mercedes Benz has ever fallen into that category as far as I know (racing a 6+ litre V8 is pointless when we can get 800+ hp from 2.4 litres naturally aspirated). This is not an insult, simply an observation. Mercedes makes really powerful street engines, while BMW has offered race track technology for street use. This will no longer be the case with the forced induction. I drove the X6 5.0 and the power is impressive, but somehow the turbos make the engine feel somewhat artificial compared to a NA engine. The torque curve becomes so flat that you don't get that sensation of peak power. Does anyone remember before the days of variable valve timing when engines used to be "on cam". It was the sweet spot of power when the motor sounded and felt like it was at full gallop. The new direct injection BMW turbo engines, as fantastic as they are, don't have that much character. My wife has a 335xi. Fast, but nowhere near as strong feeling as the 550 from the seat of the pants.

I have always been critical of BMW's high revving engines for two reasons: 1) the power is by definition less accessible (a quick 0-40 mph launch from a stop light in the city isn't flattering in a car with a high revving motor since they inherently lack low end torque); and 2) the fact that the average person has no idea of what I said in #1! I drive a 550i which puts you into seat as hard as an M5 (proven fact) but in smaller spirts between gear shifts. If I had a nickel for every car moron over the last 3 years who has gestured what it must be like to have 500+ hp... I can tell you what it's like to have 95 lb./ft. of torque for every thousand lbs. of curb weight...(the same amount as the M5). Sorry for getting sidetracked. But the point is that with turbo engines making bags of torque right off idle, the new M cars will live up to the image of the car morons.

I predict that the current M V10 and M V8 will become legendary if M switches back to modifying series production motors with turbos (which it may be forced to do - pun- by global economic factors). My2C

DRP

pennetta

Listen I agree the higher reving engines feels different from turbo motors and if you're a little older and have driven carburated cars with fixed cams you know what "coming on the cam" means. Very narrow power bands feels fastest. If you read my sig, you'll see I have owned a few motorcycles (small cc compared to cars, big HP) one redlined at 14,000 RPM so I know what high reving motors feel like.
550iSport- Even though your wifes 335xi doesn't feel as fast as your 550 it is.
I don't see what the problem is, M cars are BMW's highest performing cars. The turbo motor will keep the same hp but add 150 ft/lbs of flatlined torque. The old (current) M will feel faster but it won't be. Also remember that turbo cars are performance scalable, download some software and now you have 600hp/650 ft lbs from the M5.
I commend BMW for upgrading its engines, I am sick of MB out powering the bimmers in almost every category ( CLK 63, C63, E63, SL 65)
PS- BMW take note, MB exhaust sound better even on the less than AMG cars.

MitchBMW

I don't know how I really feel about this. I guess it could be a great thing if down right. But it also can be like what some doubters are saying if not done right. We will wait and see.

But isn't how these cars feel part of why we own them? I mean if a 335 is as fast as a 550, but the 550 feels faster isn't that what's satisfying? The feel? If that was the case, there are other cars out there that are faster than M3's, M5 that people would be driving. We love BMW's because there is no other car out there that have the driving feel that they do.

Just my .02.

mhs525

I have owned several turbo cars and many more NA cars. The TT 3.0 cars have the least amount of turbo lag of any turbo car I have experienced but they still had some lag. Torque from turbo charging or displacement is always a good thing but I prefer the throttle response of NA displacement.

The throttle response on my MT M3 was instant, telepathic almost. I have yet to drive a 3.0 TT that matches that response.

mhs525

Another opinion...