530d - Broken Swirl flap = Broken Engine
05-27-2008, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by BasRed' post='589327' date='May 27 2008, 10:05 PM
Hi all,
Having read these stories I obviously got a little nervous about the '03 530d I just bought. It has about 100k (kilometers) on it and I would HATE for this to happen to me.. I have called my local BMW dealer and explained what I've learned from the forum so far. They looked into it, and when they got back to me they told me they HAD heard of the problem but they had only rarely seen it happen. They also told me it usually happens at very high mileages (over 200k kilometers).
I asked them if they could take preventitive measures (i.e. take the flaps out) but they advised against it and stated the engine wouldn't run properly without the flaps. Also they said taking the flaps out is not an easy job.
I'm left VERY curious if anyone had since learned anything about this (potential) issue.. Anyone?
Having read these stories I obviously got a little nervous about the '03 530d I just bought. It has about 100k (kilometers) on it and I would HATE for this to happen to me.. I have called my local BMW dealer and explained what I've learned from the forum so far. They looked into it, and when they got back to me they told me they HAD heard of the problem but they had only rarely seen it happen. They also told me it usually happens at very high mileages (over 200k kilometers).
I asked them if they could take preventitive measures (i.e. take the flaps out) but they advised against it and stated the engine wouldn't run properly without the flaps. Also they said taking the flaps out is not an easy job.
I'm left VERY curious if anyone had since learned anything about this (potential) issue.. Anyone?
Taking those flaps all off is extremely easy thing to do after the intake manifold itself has been taken off. As you may have noticed, I only cleaned mine, didn't take them off. On the other hand, the flap moving mechanism can be disabled too without taking the flaps off. In this case they remain open. If having some problems after this, the mechanism can be reset back to work. This case requires only plugging the tube between the electric valve(11) and the vacuum box(9). See picture here: Intake manifold
I have thought also, that taking the flaps off could affect the engine somehow, but... As I told previously, someone here in Finland had them removed by BMW service. I'd like to hear about his experiences now when the swirl flaps have been removed. However, many people at least here in my country have removed the flaps from their E39 diesel engines without any problems.
What I know, the swirl flaps are in there because of EU emission restrictions. The flaps are supposed to be closed, when the engine is idling, so that less oxygen gets into the cylinder. This affects emissions. When the throttle is pushed, flaps open.
05-27-2008, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Anzafin' post='589359' date='May 27 2008, 09:43 PM
Hi!
Taking those flaps all off is extremely easy thing to do after the intake manifold itself has been taken off. As you may have noticed, I only cleaned mine, didn't take them off. On the other hand, the flap moving mechanism can be disabled too without taking the flaps off. In this case they remain open. If having some problems after this, the mechanism can be reset back to work. This case requires only plugging the tube between the electric valve(11) and the vacuum box(9). See picture here: Intake manifold
I have thought also, that taking the flaps off could affect the engine somehow, but... As I told previously, someone here in Finland had them removed by BMW service. I'd like to hear about his experiences now when the swirl flaps have been removed. However, many people at least here in my country have removed the flaps from their E39 diesel engines without any problems.
What I know, the swirl flaps are in there because of EU emission restrictions. The flaps are supposed to be closed, when the engine is idling, so that less oxygen gets into the cylinder. This affects emissions. When the throttle is pushed, flaps open.
Taking those flaps all off is extremely easy thing to do after the intake manifold itself has been taken off. As you may have noticed, I only cleaned mine, didn't take them off. On the other hand, the flap moving mechanism can be disabled too without taking the flaps off. In this case they remain open. If having some problems after this, the mechanism can be reset back to work. This case requires only plugging the tube between the electric valve(11) and the vacuum box(9). See picture here: Intake manifold
I have thought also, that taking the flaps off could affect the engine somehow, but... As I told previously, someone here in Finland had them removed by BMW service. I'd like to hear about his experiences now when the swirl flaps have been removed. However, many people at least here in my country have removed the flaps from their E39 diesel engines without any problems.
What I know, the swirl flaps are in there because of EU emission restrictions. The flaps are supposed to be closed, when the engine is idling, so that less oxygen gets into the cylinder. This affects emissions. When the throttle is pushed, flaps open.
Hi Anzafin,
Thanks for your quick reply. That's extremely useful information, thank you. I will ask for a second opinion from another dealer. I'd also be very interested to hear about people's experiences who had them taken out.
05-27-2008, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BasRed' post='589372' date='May 27 2008, 10:52 PM
Hi Anzafin,
Thanks for your quick reply. That's extremely useful information, thank you. I will ask for a second opinion from another dealer. I'd also be very interested to hear about people's experiences who had them taken out.
Thanks for your quick reply. That's extremely useful information, thank you. I will ask for a second opinion from another dealer. I'd also be very interested to hear about people's experiences who had them taken out.
Let's keep this issue up by posting any information we get...
05-27-2008, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by RobyO' post='587909' date='May 25 2008, 10:23 AM
Hello Anzafin,
I read your DIY about cleaning the swirl flaps, but this was too late of course.
The dealer told me BMW have modified the new intake manifold by strengthening the swirl flap axles.
I read your DIY about cleaning the swirl flaps, but this was too late of course.
The dealer told me BMW have modified the new intake manifold by strengthening the swirl flap axles.
05-27-2008, 10:42 PM
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Hi all,
I've done a little more homework and have since discovered that this is a widely known and recognised issue, but BMW have not officially acknowledged it. I was very interested to learn this does not only affect the 530d engine, but has also occurred on the 320d (and maybe 520d) models too.
I also seems nobody knows exactly what the flaps are for. As Anzafin stated he suspects they are for EU emission regulations, which sounds like it makes sense. However I've now also come across information that seems to imply they are designed to 'swirl' the airflow going into the cylinder for optimal airflow and dispersal. That too sounds plausible, given the name of the culprit! ;-)
I am planning to call another dealer and BMW customer service today and see what they have to say. The most effective way to solve the problem seem to be to replace the intake manifold for a cost of around 500 euro.. I wonder if BMW will compensate the cost of a replacement as a preventitive measure? ;-)
I will update this thread with new info if/when I get it. Please do the same guys if you have anything to add, this is a serious (potential) issue for us diesel owners!
I've done a little more homework and have since discovered that this is a widely known and recognised issue, but BMW have not officially acknowledged it. I was very interested to learn this does not only affect the 530d engine, but has also occurred on the 320d (and maybe 520d) models too.
I also seems nobody knows exactly what the flaps are for. As Anzafin stated he suspects they are for EU emission regulations, which sounds like it makes sense. However I've now also come across information that seems to imply they are designed to 'swirl' the airflow going into the cylinder for optimal airflow and dispersal. That too sounds plausible, given the name of the culprit! ;-)
I am planning to call another dealer and BMW customer service today and see what they have to say. The most effective way to solve the problem seem to be to replace the intake manifold for a cost of around 500 euro.. I wonder if BMW will compensate the cost of a replacement as a preventitive measure? ;-)
I will update this thread with new info if/when I get it. Please do the same guys if you have anything to add, this is a serious (potential) issue for us diesel owners!
05-27-2008, 11:51 PM
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Here in the states at least, the dealer can get involved and ask for the repair to be "good willed" by the manufacturer. If it is a "known" defect, and the dealer admits this, try to get him to do it. It'd help if you took you car to this place for regular maintenance etc... They tend to wanna go to bat for you more so if this is the case.
05-28-2008, 12:34 AM
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Here's a link to a writeup of E39 530da swirl flap cleaning/removing. It's in Finnish, but there are some great pics about operation. I can translate something if you wish to know.
There are these two guys, and one of them satisfies to clean his flaps and the other takes them all off. The structure of the intake manifold in E39 is almost exactly the same as in E60. However, my E60 swirl flaps were rubber coated instead of bare metal.
There are these two guys, and one of them satisfies to clean his flaps and the other takes them all off. The structure of the intake manifold in E39 is almost exactly the same as in E60. However, my E60 swirl flaps were rubber coated instead of bare metal.
05-28-2008, 12:48 AM
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Am I right in saying that the newer LCI 3.0 diesel engines don't have these flap's anymore? I'm sure I have read this in a number of threads on here before?
05-28-2008, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Palmo' post='589847' date='May 28 2008, 11:48 AM
Am I right in saying that the newer LCI 3.0 diesel engines don't have these flap's anymore? I'm sure I have read this in a number of threads on here before?
edit: Sorry about my ignorance, but from when the LCI 3.0 diesel cars have meen manufactured?
05-28-2008, 12:55 AM
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127.000 km's on clock and the car is as good as new.
But - I've read a few engine/turbo faliures on this board and a German, and I must admit that I'm a bit worried. I'm always driving carefully when the engine is cold, and wait a few min on idle after a fast autobahn trip.
I'm following this thread with great interest. I would be nice to be ahead of time, instead of being stranded on a German autobahn with thousands of euro's in repairs..
But - I've read a few engine/turbo faliures on this board and a German, and I must admit that I'm a bit worried. I'm always driving carefully when the engine is cold, and wait a few min on idle after a fast autobahn trip.
I'm following this thread with great interest. I would be nice to be ahead of time, instead of being stranded on a German autobahn with thousands of euro's in repairs..