4WD trends
12-05-2005, 06:20 PM
#21
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My Ride: 2006 530xi. Deep green with beige interior. 6 speed manual. Premium package.
Today the global car industry estimate approx 12-13% of the car sales to be cars with 4WD. 15 years ago this number was less than 2%. A couple of years ago BMW did not even offer 4WD for their 5-series but times have changed along with new market demands and competition. Before the new cost/efficient solutions 4WD was considered an unnecessary option mostly because of price. With cost going down fast 4WD makes more and more sense for everybody.
The major reasons for an increased share of 4WD vs 2WD are:
1) Improved technology and durability
2) Less cost per unit
3) A increased consumer demand
4) A big improvement in driving safety
5) etc.
15 years from now it is probably true to estimate the 4WD share to be 80% leaving only small city cars run on 2WD.
So today it is becoming more and more relevant to ask yourself why you should NOT chose 4WD for your new car. A few suggestions might apply but they are being less important as time goes by.
1) Increased fuel consumption
2) Increased service and maintenance cost
3) Design issues (ride height etc.)
4) Lack of that slip'n'slidin' 2WD handling that some of the consumers wants
This discussion is by the way pretty similar to the discussion that arised some 30 years ago when the first ABS systems were introduced. Today ABS is not an option to choose. You assume it to be installed by default.
Do I have a 4WD, yes of course
Comments?
/Knubblo
The major reasons for an increased share of 4WD vs 2WD are:
1) Improved technology and durability
2) Less cost per unit
3) A increased consumer demand
4) A big improvement in driving safety
5) etc.
15 years from now it is probably true to estimate the 4WD share to be 80% leaving only small city cars run on 2WD.
So today it is becoming more and more relevant to ask yourself why you should NOT chose 4WD for your new car. A few suggestions might apply but they are being less important as time goes by.
1) Increased fuel consumption
2) Increased service and maintenance cost
3) Design issues (ride height etc.)
4) Lack of that slip'n'slidin' 2WD handling that some of the consumers wants
This discussion is by the way pretty similar to the discussion that arised some 30 years ago when the first ABS systems were introduced. Today ABS is not an option to choose. You assume it to be installed by default.
Do I have a 4WD, yes of course
Comments?
/Knubblo
Take for instance the 530xi v. 530i. Has anyone (BMW or otherwise) actually claimed that the xi version is safer than its 2WD brethren?
[/quote]
Safer - maybe no - but in my case more convenient. Live up a big hill and you need 4wd to get up. Period. Yeah - it is only 15-20 days a year I have to walk up hill, in the cold, in the snow to get in my house, but that is 15-20 too many for me - so the AWD is easilty worth the 2K
12-05-2005, 07:33 PM
#22
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My Ride: 2014 X5 xDrive 5.0 M Package Carbon Black Metallic/2008 M Roadster Imola Red
Originally Posted by jmatthe' post='207682' date='Dec 5 2005, 09:52 PM
OK, very sorry for the editorial, subjective, and not so in the spirit comment, but I think you missed my point as well.
Whatever the case, I am sure you will buy what is right for your driving conditons. Personally, I did not make the connection on the off roading analogy....
Jim
Whatever the case, I am sure you will buy what is right for your driving conditons. Personally, I did not make the connection on the off roading analogy....
Jim
12-06-2005, 01:55 AM
#23
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My Ride: 2005.5 545i, Silver Grey, Dakota Black, Anthracite, Premium, Cold, Sport, L7, Nav, Fold Down Seats, Sunshades, Sirius.
2006 330i, Silver, Black, Natural Poplar, Sport, 6 speed, Cold, Premium
2002 330xi Black, Black, Premium, Cold, Premium Sound. (Sold)
1997 540i (sold)
1985 635i Euro (sold to family)
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OK, very sorry for the editorial, subjective, and not so in the spirit comment, but I think you missed my point as well.
Whatever the case, I am sure you will buy what is right for your driving conditons. Personally, I did not make the connection on the off roading analogy....
Jim
Whatever the case, I am sure you will buy what is right for your driving conditons. Personally, I did not make the connection on the off roading analogy....
Jim
[/quote]
A lighter agile car is in most conditions likely safer than a heavier less agile one, like for like, same driver.
In the real world there is no substitute for friction, stopping and going.
12-06-2005, 03:31 AM
#24
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Who really needs 4WD? I haven't met anyone yet ! 4WD has become a comfort commodity, and nothing else. If the majority of cars are all-wheel driven, and you are considering buying a new one, sure, four wheel drive might be a remedy against rapid depreciation.
12-06-2005, 08:02 AM
#25
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My Ride: 2006 BMW M5, Silverstone with black extended leather, brushed aluminium trim, Nav Pro, Logic 7, PDC, 35 % tint.
I don't think 4WD / AWD is safer than RWD. I really think this is marketing. People are now going from sport utility vehicles to cars, and want 4WD.
I live in an area of the world with lots of snow, and the most important thing is to have good winter tires.
4WD only advantage is getting going in slippery conditions, my car with RWD may not accelerate as fast. 4WD/ AWD has no effect on braking or stopping the car.
Accidents happen not because you are accelerating, but because you are braking, and lose control of the car. 4WD does not brake any better than RWD. THis is why it is far better to have good winter tires than 4WD. I would put my 545 with my winter tires up against a 4WD car with all season tires any day.
AWD/4WD makes the car heavier and can upset the balance of the car. I think its main utility is in off-road vehicles.
I live in an area of the world with lots of snow, and the most important thing is to have good winter tires.
4WD only advantage is getting going in slippery conditions, my car with RWD may not accelerate as fast. 4WD/ AWD has no effect on braking or stopping the car.
Accidents happen not because you are accelerating, but because you are braking, and lose control of the car. 4WD does not brake any better than RWD. THis is why it is far better to have good winter tires than 4WD. I would put my 545 with my winter tires up against a 4WD car with all season tires any day.
AWD/4WD makes the car heavier and can upset the balance of the car. I think its main utility is in off-road vehicles.
12-06-2005, 08:16 AM
#26
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My Ride: 2003 X5 3.0----->gone
2004 Porsche Cayenne S : Gemballa front and back bodykit, fabspeed bypass pipes, Gemballa exhaust pipes, full option, 20" factory sport design rims------>gone
2005 545i 6-spd manual---->de-badged, CDV removal, Autosolutions short shift kit, resonator removal, premium package, PDC, xenon, almost full options, hardwire V1 install ....looking for mods...
2007 550i 6-spd----> Premium package, sport package, Logic7, heated everything, Rogue Engineering SSK, CDV removal, hardwire V1 install, aFe cold air intake, Custom Magnaflow exhaust....
Well...its been snowing in MA and my apartment complex has yet to be shoveled so theres lotsa snow. Drove my 5 series over the snow and man was I impressed. Driving at slow speeds around corners was stable obviously. Then for the heck of it I tried to go faster....it barely stepped out of line before DSC kicked in to safe me so many times and I CANNOT unbalance the damn car...kudos for the engineers who designed DSC.
This is my first RWD car with my previous cars being AWD SUVs...At first I complained about traction in the rain since I was not used to driving but now I know thats only because the tires were extremely bald (rear). Now I know that my 5er is more than capable of tackling the weather.
Previously, I have always told my friends who just came to Boston to get an AWD audi that handles OK and is terrific in snow, but after this experience, I am going to change my mind.
Bottom line is, unless you go off-roading, 99% of us do not need AWD/4WD!! Obviously not everyone gets this point thats why BMW still makes the AWD version of the 3 and 5 series...
This is my first RWD car with my previous cars being AWD SUVs...At first I complained about traction in the rain since I was not used to driving but now I know thats only because the tires were extremely bald (rear). Now I know that my 5er is more than capable of tackling the weather.
Previously, I have always told my friends who just came to Boston to get an AWD audi that handles OK and is terrific in snow, but after this experience, I am going to change my mind.
Bottom line is, unless you go off-roading, 99% of us do not need AWD/4WD!! Obviously not everyone gets this point thats why BMW still makes the AWD version of the 3 and 5 series...
12-06-2005, 09:53 AM
#27
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My Ride: 2006 530xit, Black Sapphire/Auburn, Premium, Sport, Cold Weather, Sirius, Debadged
I live in Seattle, where we see lots of rain, lots of big hills, and I am an avid lover of the snow. In my case the 530xit was a no brainer - it has never slipped on steep hills at stoplights in the rain (hill start a great bonus) and I don't have to put chains on when the highways to the passes/ski areas are restricted due to snow. Plus the 5 series wagon has always been my dream car, and BMW didn't give me the choice anyhow - all and all a perfect fit! 
12-06-2005, 10:00 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by jmatthe' post='207682' date='Dec 5 2005, 09:52 PM
OK, very sorry for the editorial, subjective, and not so in the spirit comment, but I think you missed my point as well.
Whatever the case, I am sure you will buy what is right for your driving conditons. Personally, I did not make the connection on the off roading analogy....
Jim
Whatever the case, I am sure you will buy what is right for your driving conditons. Personally, I did not make the connection on the off roading analogy....
Jim
A lighter agile car is in most conditions likely safer than a heavier less agile one, like for like, same driver.
In the real world there is no substitute for friction, stopping and going.
[/quote]Are you assuming the lighter one has rear-wheel drive, while the heavier one has all-wheel drive? In other words, are you assuming these cars satisfy the other things equal as far as possible condition? Is that what "like for like" implies? But, regardless, I get confused. If the heavier car has all-wheel drive, then wouldn't it generate the most friction accelerating, cornering, and braking, for example? If so, then wouldn't it be safer in many, if not "most" conditions--assuming it does not have a huge amount of extra weight for some unimaginable reason? And, if you are not assuming satisfaction of the "other things ... condition," then all significant comparability is lost. Please clarify.
Originally Posted by paasan' post='207863' date='Dec 6 2005, 07:31 AM
Who really needs 4WD? I haven't met anyone yet ! 4WD has become a comfort commodity, and nothing else. If the majority of cars are all-wheel driven, and you are considering buying a new one, sure, four wheel drive might be a remedy against rapid depreciation.
12-06-2005, 10:23 AM
#29
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Efficiency will win out in the end. I didn't get an S4 because of GGT and the fault of that was AWD. I do think that at the very high hp levels, AWD would be nice. Heck I even miss my last cars LSD some times. But at current drivetrain losses, it seems like a 10-15% hit - no way is it worth it.
12-06-2005, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by jmatthe' post='207682' date='Dec 5 2005, 09:52 PM
OK, very sorry for the editorial, subjective, and not so in the spirit comment, but I think you missed my point as well.
Whatever the case, I am sure you will buy what is right for your driving conditons. Personally, I did not make the connection on the off roading analogy....
Jim
Whatever the case, I am sure you will buy what is right for your driving conditons. Personally, I did not make the connection on the off roading analogy....
Jim
A lighter agile car is in most conditions likely safer than a heavier less agile one, like for like, same driver.
In the real world there is no substitute for friction, stopping and going.
[/quote]
Hmm.
Not saying you are wrong, but consider the 530i v. 530xi. Both are ostensibly the same car (ceteris peribus, right?) except for the x-drive. Depending on the type of gearbox, the 530xi is about 200-300 lbs heavier than the regular 530i.
Are there any claims -- anywhere, BMW or otherwise -- touting the fact that the 530i is safer than the 530xi?
Regardless of marketing and advertisement, is there even empirical evidence to support this position?