2007 E60- TWO New Starters, No Crank No Start
04-20-2021, 02:58 AM
#11
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Wow that's a lot going on there, after reading the entire post I'm learning towards the accident being some type of cause, a short or communication problem creating a drain or just not letting it turn over. By the way no codes or errors displayed? Good luck with this one.
04-20-2021, 07:35 AM
#12
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My Ride: 2007 550i (E60)
If it is the IBS, then I guess the next question would be do I just need to replace a faulty IBS or is there an underlying issue with something in the car drawing power when it shouldn't be and thus causing the IBS to wake up the DME and further drain the battery? Seems like the IBS failure is more of a symptom than the actual issue in most cases, but not entirely sure on that assessment. Might have to invest in a voltmeter and do some testing.
Thanks a ton to everyone who provided input. Will continue to reply with updates.
04-20-2021, 02:34 PM
#13
Super Moderator
Its still pointing to the IBS thus far. Keep driving it for a few more days. If you were getting 0/2 before, you're definitely heading in the right direction. If you choose not to replace the IBS, you may shorten the lifespan of your battery, or you'll experience slightly lower gas mileage.
About the voltmeter, I have one I bought for $5, and at some places you can get them for free.
About the voltmeter, I have one I bought for $5, and at some places you can get them for free.
04-21-2021, 05:04 PM
#14
Members
One of the things to remember is that a certain number of conditions need to be met for the starter to be triggered.
Conditions:
Brake light switch engaged
tranny in neutral or park
car stationary
CAS permits start relay signal to be generated.
Intermittent:
Possible bad engine grounding strap(s)
Intermittent relays, 30G and 15G. I had a no crank, no start, and ISTA+ identified the 30G as the problem. $25 relay fixed it.
Look at this vid, starting at 6.50. Before that isn't very helpful. There are several relays on the rear fuse panel. NOTE: When he says "don't remove the 30G relay" he means permanently (apparently some think that's some sort of fix. It's not.). Yes, you can remove it to test it. It overheats and becomes intermittent. This can interfere with some of the necessary start conditions being met to allow the starter relay to trigger. It's kind of a confused vid, but the point is for you to see were the relevant relays are.
This will show you the E60 30 and 15 amp relays, at 10.50. test them. Remember to push them firmly back in place, so they're fully seated.
Conditions:
Brake light switch engaged
tranny in neutral or park
car stationary
CAS permits start relay signal to be generated.
Intermittent:
Possible bad engine grounding strap(s)
Intermittent relays, 30G and 15G. I had a no crank, no start, and ISTA+ identified the 30G as the problem. $25 relay fixed it.
Look at this vid, starting at 6.50. Before that isn't very helpful. There are several relays on the rear fuse panel. NOTE: When he says "don't remove the 30G relay" he means permanently (apparently some think that's some sort of fix. It's not.). Yes, you can remove it to test it. It overheats and becomes intermittent. This can interfere with some of the necessary start conditions being met to allow the starter relay to trigger. It's kind of a confused vid, but the point is for you to see were the relevant relays are.
This will show you the E60 30 and 15 amp relays, at 10.50. test them. Remember to push them firmly back in place, so they're fully seated.
Last edited by banglenot; 04-21-2021 at 05:12 PM.
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04-21-2021, 05:40 PM
#15
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And attached below is the schematic for the n52 starting interlocks. Two pages. Helps you understand what conditions need to be met to allow the start relay line.
They're pdf's so can be expanded for readability.
They're pdf's so can be expanded for readability.
04-22-2021, 08:55 PM
#16
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My Ride: E60 550i LCI. Shadow-Line, M Sports Suspension, M Aerodynamics Package, Sports Package
Model Year: 2008
Engine: N62B48
Hey everyone,
New to the forum and I promise I did my diligence to find any older posts addressing my issue. I wasn't able to (but please point me in the right direction if I missed something), so I decided to post.
TLDR:
2007 BMW 550i
New battery, TWO new starters, still on crank/no start a few days after changing out battery/starter 1/starter 2
Car will eventually turn over after several tries and letting it sit for a few minutes
Really have no idea what is going on here
My 2007 550i has about 120,000 miles on it and within the past year or so I have had this strange no crank no start issue that would intermittently pop up. It started out happening very irregularly but in the last few months it happens almost every other time I try to start her. It is just a straightforward no crank no start but the electronics, A/C, radio etc. will all turn on. Additionally, there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it. Sometimes it happens when the car has been sitting overnight, sometimes I get in the car in the morning and she starts right up, sometimes it'll start right up and I'll drive to the grocery store just for it to not start trying to get home. I've also never had to get it towed home or to the shop because I can always get it to turn on eventually. I will give it a few shots initially to crank and turn on, and if that doesn't work I will turn the car off and let it sit for a 5-10 minutes and then give it another shot. It has historically always turned on eventually. Additionally, I have experimented with the key in the ignition slot and not just relying on keyless Push-to-Start, but no consistency in turning over with key in or out. I've tried practically standing on the brakes in case there was a vacuum issue not allowing the car to recognize the brakes are engaged, no help there either. It started to happen more frequently and made me late for a work call one morning so I decided to get it looked at.
Although the randomly deciding to turn over on the Xth attempt as I mentioned above was a little weird, I at first figured it was a battery issue. The battery hadn't been replaced in a while and with WFH/Covid stuff going on I rarely drive the car anymore and if I do its a couple miles to the grocery store and back etc. So I took it in around February and the shop told me the battery was at around 30% rem. life so I changed it out. Car starts up perfectly for the first week or so, and then the problem comes back.
So the next step was to change out the starter, which the local shop swore up and down was the cause of my problems even though I was hesitant. $1500 later I have a brand new Bosch starter in there. She starts up perfectly at the shop, drive her around for a few days, perfect strong sounding cranks and the engine starts right up with no issues. On the fourth or fifth day I get in, put my foot on the break, press the Start button, and "click", electronics and A/C on, engine doesn't crank. I go through my usual trouble shooting routine to get it started again, which works, and then drive it directly to the shop and explain the issue. They keep the car another day and when I call up 24 hours later the tech swears to me he has tried to start it 30-40 times and its started perfectly every single time... So, I go back to the shop to get the car since I need it for some family stuff that weekend, and when I go to drive it out of the shop IT DOESN'T START. Same "click", no start. At that point I'm pretty pissed because how did they try to start it 30-40 times and it worked but when I show up it doesn't? But alas, the problem is occurring right in front of them so they are obligated to look into it. They come back saying the starter they got must have been bad.. great. But thankfully the parts and labor are warrantied out so they were able to drop a new starter in for nothing, which I appreciated.
So, now I am on a new battery and my second Bosch starter. Pick her up from the shop, starts up perfectly, drive her around town for a few days running errands etc., including sitting over night a few nights, get in on the fourth for fifth day after the new starter replacement, and what do you know... same issue.
At this point it can't be the starter right? And I doubt it's the battery since it's only a few months old. And since the car will eventually start up after a while it doesn't really make a lot of sense to me that it would be a battery issue (if it doesn't crank on the 1st try, why would the 8th or 9th work, right?).
I am not a car expert and certainly no BMW expert so I wanted to post here to see if anyone has any clue what the issue could be, because I am at a total loss and don't really want to go pay another $150+ diagnosis fee to a different shop just for them to have no idea.
One other piece of information that may be helpful is about a year ago (and I think it may have been around the time my starting issues began but I can't remember exactly). I had a low speed collision on the front passenger side door with a poorly placed concrete pillar in a parking garage (100% me being a dumbass). It was pretty much just cosmetic so I drove around for a few months with the large dent on the door. I eventually got it fixed because I was getting "High Battery Drain" messages upon start up after not driving for a few days and I was thinking maybe the impact threw the door off-track and the car thought the door was constantly ajar or something like that. I have not gotten the "High Battery Drain" messages since fixing the door.
Any input, advice, ideas, or even a solution would be GREATLY appreciated. I really love this car and don't want to get rid of it, but if she isn't going to start up reliably it's just not worth driving around with the possibility of getting stranded. And I really don't want to sink any more money into it chasing a ghost and replacing parts that don't even need replacing.
Thank you for taking the time to read this long winded post!
-Eric
New to the forum and I promise I did my diligence to find any older posts addressing my issue. I wasn't able to (but please point me in the right direction if I missed something), so I decided to post.
TLDR:
2007 BMW 550i
New battery, TWO new starters, still on crank/no start a few days after changing out battery/starter 1/starter 2
Car will eventually turn over after several tries and letting it sit for a few minutes
Really have no idea what is going on here
My 2007 550i has about 120,000 miles on it and within the past year or so I have had this strange no crank no start issue that would intermittently pop up. It started out happening very irregularly but in the last few months it happens almost every other time I try to start her. It is just a straightforward no crank no start but the electronics, A/C, radio etc. will all turn on. Additionally, there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it. Sometimes it happens when the car has been sitting overnight, sometimes I get in the car in the morning and she starts right up, sometimes it'll start right up and I'll drive to the grocery store just for it to not start trying to get home. I've also never had to get it towed home or to the shop because I can always get it to turn on eventually. I will give it a few shots initially to crank and turn on, and if that doesn't work I will turn the car off and let it sit for a 5-10 minutes and then give it another shot. It has historically always turned on eventually. Additionally, I have experimented with the key in the ignition slot and not just relying on keyless Push-to-Start, but no consistency in turning over with key in or out. I've tried practically standing on the brakes in case there was a vacuum issue not allowing the car to recognize the brakes are engaged, no help there either. It started to happen more frequently and made me late for a work call one morning so I decided to get it looked at.
Although the randomly deciding to turn over on the Xth attempt as I mentioned above was a little weird, I at first figured it was a battery issue. The battery hadn't been replaced in a while and with WFH/Covid stuff going on I rarely drive the car anymore and if I do its a couple miles to the grocery store and back etc. So I took it in around February and the shop told me the battery was at around 30% rem. life so I changed it out. Car starts up perfectly for the first week or so, and then the problem comes back.
So the next step was to change out the starter, which the local shop swore up and down was the cause of my problems even though I was hesitant. $1500 later I have a brand new Bosch starter in there. She starts up perfectly at the shop, drive her around for a few days, perfect strong sounding cranks and the engine starts right up with no issues. On the fourth or fifth day I get in, put my foot on the break, press the Start button, and "click", electronics and A/C on, engine doesn't crank. I go through my usual trouble shooting routine to get it started again, which works, and then drive it directly to the shop and explain the issue. They keep the car another day and when I call up 24 hours later the tech swears to me he has tried to start it 30-40 times and its started perfectly every single time... So, I go back to the shop to get the car since I need it for some family stuff that weekend, and when I go to drive it out of the shop IT DOESN'T START. Same "click", no start. At that point I'm pretty pissed because how did they try to start it 30-40 times and it worked but when I show up it doesn't? But alas, the problem is occurring right in front of them so they are obligated to look into it. They come back saying the starter they got must have been bad.. great. But thankfully the parts and labor are warrantied out so they were able to drop a new starter in for nothing, which I appreciated.
So, now I am on a new battery and my second Bosch starter. Pick her up from the shop, starts up perfectly, drive her around town for a few days running errands etc., including sitting over night a few nights, get in on the fourth for fifth day after the new starter replacement, and what do you know... same issue.
At this point it can't be the starter right? And I doubt it's the battery since it's only a few months old. And since the car will eventually start up after a while it doesn't really make a lot of sense to me that it would be a battery issue (if it doesn't crank on the 1st try, why would the 8th or 9th work, right?).
I am not a car expert and certainly no BMW expert so I wanted to post here to see if anyone has any clue what the issue could be, because I am at a total loss and don't really want to go pay another $150+ diagnosis fee to a different shop just for them to have no idea.
One other piece of information that may be helpful is about a year ago (and I think it may have been around the time my starting issues began but I can't remember exactly). I had a low speed collision on the front passenger side door with a poorly placed concrete pillar in a parking garage (100% me being a dumbass). It was pretty much just cosmetic so I drove around for a few months with the large dent on the door. I eventually got it fixed because I was getting "High Battery Drain" messages upon start up after not driving for a few days and I was thinking maybe the impact threw the door off-track and the car thought the door was constantly ajar or something like that. I have not gotten the "High Battery Drain" messages since fixing the door.
Any input, advice, ideas, or even a solution would be GREATLY appreciated. I really love this car and don't want to get rid of it, but if she isn't going to start up reliably it's just not worth driving around with the possibility of getting stranded. And I really don't want to sink any more money into it chasing a ghost and replacing parts that don't even need replacing.
Thank you for taking the time to read this long winded post!
-Eric
I had the same issues except for the battery part. But try changing the (IVM) 12527510638. Especially if the car goes into limp mode or give you crazy electronic codes out the blue. It took me a month to figure the issue out until I found it in a form. Hope it works. For parts I use FCPEURO.COM lifetime warranty and quality parts.
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