Dension install problem and solution - no CDC
09-15-2011, 06:20 PM
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Hi
I just wanted to try and help anyone who might be thinking of installing a Dension gateway 500 to their E60 or might be having problems... hopefully this post might come in handy to someone, somewhere. The solution seems obvious now, but at the time I was tearing my hair out. Hindsight is always 20 20 !!!!
The problem I had was that once installed, the car could "see" but not "talk" to the Dension, I shall explain.
So where do I start ???
I have a 2007 E60, with no cd changer, no sat nav... just the standard BMW single slot cd player - I phoned two dealers in the UK giving my car details... they both said the car was cd changer prep'd.
After reading lots of useful posts on this forum I decided to give it a go myself (ex mechanic).
So I bought and installed a Dension Gateway 500 following the "mickey mouse" instructions supplied with the kit - diagram '3a' for me and dip switch settings being one, two and six up/on and the rest down/off.... so far so good.
I then contacted Autologic and found a garage near me who could "code" the car (£60 from garage £120 from my local dealer!). So I went along to my local Autologic approved garage (who is also an independent BMW specialist) and had the car "coded". Unfortunately, although correctly coded the car could not "talk" to the Dension. By this I mean that I could now see the cd changer disc options on my Idrive(version 3 on an E60) , but I couldn't select any as they were "greyed out" just like on a pc when an option is not available.
Thankfully the person coding the car was also an approved Dension installer with lots of experience - unfortunately for me, not enough!
The installer and I spent the next four hours checking, then re-checking all connections, dip switch settings and wiring - but found nothing wrong - honestly, we stripped and rebuilt my dash so my times I can do it l blindfold... it now takes me 12 minutes to strip out the cd player and complete glovebox including side trim without causing any damage. Anyway... I digress...
As we seemed to have hit a brick wall, the installer phoned Dension tech support in the UK (armour automotive) and spent around 40 minutes on the phone to them - no joy. Next he called a friend in BMW tech support who didn't know either ! Next he phoned another installer... yip you guessed it... he didn't know either !!!
Everyone we spoke to had never heard of this problem... I was seriously thinking about selling it on Ebay at this point, but I decided not to give up just yet.
Not having ever worked on an E60 before or had experience of Dension I was baffled. I went home without a working Dension and tried to think of something I'd missed (surely my 20 years as a mechanical engineer could help somewhere)
I re-checked all the forums I could find relating to the Dension Gateway 500 but found nothing close to my problem...
In the end, I decided to go back to basic fault finding principles and remove the "car" from Dension circuit. I simply connected my head unit using the fibre optic cables directly to the cd player (head unit) - to my amazement it worked !!
This obviously pointed to the car being the problem... but how. Stating the obvious now, a fibre optic circuit, like any circuit, must be a "closed loop" otherwise it wouldn't work (like I said... obvious). I then remembered a very useful forum explaining the MOST ring connector located behind a flap just below the torch in the glovebox. As soon as I located the connector behind the flap I realised my problem... like many E60s I had two ends of fibre optic cable going into a "dead end" connector... no closed loop. Obviously I needed to "close" the loop but at the same time leave it available for someone at a garage or dealer to connect to if required at sometime in the future - could it be done? I decided to phone my "still baffled" installer friend from yesterday and explained what I had found. I won't say exactly what he said, let's just say he was angry at himself for not thinking of that earlier. I asked if such a part existed from BMW... "of course" was the answer, but before giving me the number he phoned BMW tech support to find out if what I had planned was officially sanctioned... it was/is !
So ladies and gentlemen, what I required all along was a "MOST ring diagnostic plug/connector" BMW part number 61 13 6 917 514. I'll try and attach a pic. Just beware, my local dealer said that this wasn't officially apart for my car... he had to look at a 7 series listing to find it !
Maybe there is another solution to my problem but this is the path I found. After many cups of strong coffee and scratching of heads I got there in the end...
If anyone reads this post right to the end and would like some help... please just let me know... I'll do my best and never quit !
And before I go,I must say thanks for all their help to...
Michael at M-Tek Services Glasgow (BMW specialist and Dension installer)
and
Safi at Car Communications in Blackburn (I bought the kit from them).
These are two very patient, helpful people - I highly recommend them to anyone.
I just wanted to try and help anyone who might be thinking of installing a Dension gateway 500 to their E60 or might be having problems... hopefully this post might come in handy to someone, somewhere. The solution seems obvious now, but at the time I was tearing my hair out. Hindsight is always 20 20 !!!!
The problem I had was that once installed, the car could "see" but not "talk" to the Dension, I shall explain.
So where do I start ???
I have a 2007 E60, with no cd changer, no sat nav... just the standard BMW single slot cd player - I phoned two dealers in the UK giving my car details... they both said the car was cd changer prep'd.
After reading lots of useful posts on this forum I decided to give it a go myself (ex mechanic).
So I bought and installed a Dension Gateway 500 following the "mickey mouse" instructions supplied with the kit - diagram '3a' for me and dip switch settings being one, two and six up/on and the rest down/off.... so far so good.
I then contacted Autologic and found a garage near me who could "code" the car (£60 from garage £120 from my local dealer!). So I went along to my local Autologic approved garage (who is also an independent BMW specialist) and had the car "coded". Unfortunately, although correctly coded the car could not "talk" to the Dension. By this I mean that I could now see the cd changer disc options on my Idrive(version 3 on an E60) , but I couldn't select any as they were "greyed out" just like on a pc when an option is not available.
Thankfully the person coding the car was also an approved Dension installer with lots of experience - unfortunately for me, not enough!
The installer and I spent the next four hours checking, then re-checking all connections, dip switch settings and wiring - but found nothing wrong - honestly, we stripped and rebuilt my dash so my times I can do it l blindfold... it now takes me 12 minutes to strip out the cd player and complete glovebox including side trim without causing any damage. Anyway... I digress...
As we seemed to have hit a brick wall, the installer phoned Dension tech support in the UK (armour automotive) and spent around 40 minutes on the phone to them - no joy. Next he called a friend in BMW tech support who didn't know either ! Next he phoned another installer... yip you guessed it... he didn't know either !!!
Everyone we spoke to had never heard of this problem... I was seriously thinking about selling it on Ebay at this point, but I decided not to give up just yet.
Not having ever worked on an E60 before or had experience of Dension I was baffled. I went home without a working Dension and tried to think of something I'd missed (surely my 20 years as a mechanical engineer could help somewhere)
I re-checked all the forums I could find relating to the Dension Gateway 500 but found nothing close to my problem...
In the end, I decided to go back to basic fault finding principles and remove the "car" from Dension circuit. I simply connected my head unit using the fibre optic cables directly to the cd player (head unit) - to my amazement it worked !!
This obviously pointed to the car being the problem... but how. Stating the obvious now, a fibre optic circuit, like any circuit, must be a "closed loop" otherwise it wouldn't work (like I said... obvious). I then remembered a very useful forum explaining the MOST ring connector located behind a flap just below the torch in the glovebox. As soon as I located the connector behind the flap I realised my problem... like many E60s I had two ends of fibre optic cable going into a "dead end" connector... no closed loop. Obviously I needed to "close" the loop but at the same time leave it available for someone at a garage or dealer to connect to if required at sometime in the future - could it be done? I decided to phone my "still baffled" installer friend from yesterday and explained what I had found. I won't say exactly what he said, let's just say he was angry at himself for not thinking of that earlier. I asked if such a part existed from BMW... "of course" was the answer, but before giving me the number he phoned BMW tech support to find out if what I had planned was officially sanctioned... it was/is !
So ladies and gentlemen, what I required all along was a "MOST ring diagnostic plug/connector" BMW part number 61 13 6 917 514. I'll try and attach a pic. Just beware, my local dealer said that this wasn't officially apart for my car... he had to look at a 7 series listing to find it !
Maybe there is another solution to my problem but this is the path I found. After many cups of strong coffee and scratching of heads I got there in the end...
If anyone reads this post right to the end and would like some help... please just let me know... I'll do my best and never quit !
And before I go,I must say thanks for all their help to...
Michael at M-Tek Services Glasgow (BMW specialist and Dension installer)
and
Safi at Car Communications in Blackburn (I bought the kit from them).
These are two very patient, helpful people - I highly recommend them to anyone.
09-15-2011, 06:34 PM
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Hmmm ... 
what's the 'dead end' connector you talking about look like?
Did it look like part #9 on the pic at http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...=61&fg=15&hl=9 ?
what's the 'dead end' connector you talking about look like?Did it look like part #9 on the pic at http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...=61&fg=15&hl=9 ?
09-15-2011, 06:37 PM
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Yeah, that's it... number nine on the pic.
It prevents the MOST ring from being complete or "closed" - it caused me lots of grief !!!
As you can see from the diagram, the part I described that solved my problem (number 7) is not "available" for an E60 in the UK.
Yeah, that's it... number nine on the pic.
It prevents the MOST ring from being complete or "closed" - it caused me lots of grief !!!
As you can see from the diagram, the part I described that solved my problem (number 7) is not "available" for an E60 in the UK.
09-15-2011, 06:41 PM
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That is actually a fiber jumper that closed the loop ... basically the same functionality as the round one you just got.
Easy to test actually just unplug shine a flash light into what you called 'dead end' connector and you'll see the beam will go from one side into the other side (there's fiber inside it).
BMW use that portion (located near the torch charger for programming so when not in use that plug must be in place.
My suggestion is to code the car for iPod interface, that's how I got my Dension installed and I got similar setup as you no-Nav, no-CDC.
Easy to test actually just unplug shine a flash light into what you called 'dead end' connector and you'll see the beam will go from one side into the other side (there's fiber inside it).
BMW use that portion (located near the torch charger for programming so when not in use that plug must be in place.
My suggestion is to code the car for iPod interface, that's how I got my Dension installed and I got similar setup as you no-Nav, no-CDC.
09-15-2011, 06:45 PM
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I didn't realise that, thanks !
The part I replaced must have been faulty then - as it failed to close the loop. I'll double check it with a torch and maybe order a new one.
I didn't realise that, thanks !
The part I replaced must have been faulty then - as it failed to close the loop. I'll double check it with a torch and maybe order a new one.
09-15-2011, 06:59 PM
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My suggestion is to code the car for iPod interface, that's how I got my Dension installed and I got similar setup as you no-Nav, no-CDC.
Your GW500 got 2 MOST port on the side or a single MOST port? If the dual-MOST try to flick the dip switch #6, I assume you don't use the other MOST port that's why you need dip switch #6 to close the fiber loop.
Your GW500 got 2 MOST port on the side or a single MOST port? If the dual-MOST try to flick the dip switch #6, I assume you don't use the other MOST port that's why you need dip switch #6 to close the fiber loop.
09-16-2011, 01:38 AM
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Hi again
I've checked the part I referred to as a "dead end" connector again... it is definitely that. As shown in the pictures below, the two ports that house the fibre optic ends are pure plastic - sadly there is no loop at the end which I must admit is a little strange. I even tried the old trick of shining a light down one end then the other - no joy. If it were part of a loop I surely would have seen something.
Anyways... my Dension works (apart from one small niggle described in another post) - but this is in the process of being sorted.
Thanks for your thoughts..its greatly appreciated.
I noticed on the parts list/diagram that there are two types of this connector (one has been discontinued), I order the current part from BMW (£13 GBP) just in case it has the loop.
The story continues !
I've checked the part I referred to as a "dead end" connector again... it is definitely that. As shown in the pictures below, the two ports that house the fibre optic ends are pure plastic - sadly there is no loop at the end which I must admit is a little strange. I even tried the old trick of shining a light down one end then the other - no joy. If it were part of a loop I surely would have seen something.
Anyways... my Dension works (apart from one small niggle described in another post) - but this is in the process of being sorted.
Thanks for your thoughts..its greatly appreciated.
I noticed on the parts list/diagram that there are two types of this connector (one has been discontinued), I order the current part from BMW (£13 GBP) just in case it has the loop.
The story continues !
09-16-2011, 03:45 AM
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My Ride: BMW E60 520d SE Saloon M47 2.0dTitanium Grey II, Grey−Dakota Leather, Visibility Package, Media Package, Through Load System, Lumbar support − fr seats, Automatic Air Conditioning−Advanced, High beam assistant, Hi−Fi Loudspeak
Model Year: 2006
You've bought a more expensive part to do the job of a cheaper one. 61136906535. Anyway glad you got it sorted.
09-16-2011, 08:00 AM
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Hi Bruce
First of all... I owe you a big thank you !
Your post on installing the Dension was a great help to me and no doubt many others !!
As for the cheaper part, well, I understand what you mean but as my car is covered for another two years by a BMW service package I wanted to keep it as original as possible just in case their tech guys wanted to plug into the MOST ring for some reason.
First of all... I owe you a big thank you !
Your post on installing the Dension was a great help to me and no doubt many others !!
As for the cheaper part, well, I understand what you mean but as my car is covered for another two years by a BMW service package I wanted to keep it as original as possible just in case their tech guys wanted to plug into the MOST ring for some reason.
09-16-2011, 08:06 AM
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Hi BlaSTiWi
Thanks for your reply...
Because of your comments I went back to BMW as I said I would. And thanks to you I discovered that there are indeed two MOST ring diagnostic plugs for the E60. One is a blank (which is no use if you want to use it) and the other is "as you described" - a fibre optic link.
I had the blank fitted which caused me all the trouble in the first place... I bought the "active" connector and "hey presto" it works.
Just to try and help anyone else who encounters this I will include a couple of pics of the part required so people know what they are looking for !
The pic below shows the "active" MOST ring connector for an E60 - check you have this one fitted whilst installing the Dension Gateway 500 - if you don't it simply won't work !!!
This is a close up of the business end of the connector, note the two shiny fibre optic cable ends in the centre. If like me you can't see them, chances are you have a dummy connector fitted like I did.
Thanks for your reply...
Because of your comments I went back to BMW as I said I would. And thanks to you I discovered that there are indeed two MOST ring diagnostic plugs for the E60. One is a blank (which is no use if you want to use it) and the other is "as you described" - a fibre optic link.
I had the blank fitted which caused me all the trouble in the first place... I bought the "active" connector and "hey presto" it works.
Just to try and help anyone else who encounters this I will include a couple of pics of the part required so people know what they are looking for !
The pic below shows the "active" MOST ring connector for an E60 - check you have this one fitted whilst installing the Dension Gateway 500 - if you don't it simply won't work !!!
This is a close up of the business end of the connector, note the two shiny fibre optic cable ends in the centre. If like me you can't see them, chances are you have a dummy connector fitted like I did.
