General customer service feeling you get with your dealer?
12-09-2005, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by miss525i' post='209406' date='Dec 9 2005, 09:55 PM
I didn't get a key chain, was I supposed to? 
I had the same experience with two BMW dealerships I dealt with
I believe the reason behind it is that BMW sells very well, and dealerships know it....the car sells itself. Their theory is--> if you don't buy it someone else will... and it's true
am I right???
I had the same experience with two BMW dealerships I dealt with
I believe the reason behind it is that BMW sells very well, and dealerships know it....the car sells itself. Their theory is--> if you don't buy it someone else will... and it's true
am I right???
12-09-2005, 07:51 PM
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My Ride: 2006 530xi. Deep green with beige interior. 6 speed manual. Premium package.
I always have to give my opinion.
I have posted my experience on some other threads, but here it is again.
First dealership - day 1 - went in looking respectable, got a good salesperson, drove several cars
day 2- took my wife and 3 kids to the dealership to see the cars - my first salesman was not there, I looked shabby having been worked the prior night - was in the dealership 20-30 minutes before someoen helped me and then was not much help - an attractive blonde walked in nicely dressed and had slaes people all over her
my wife called another dealership and the owner then called me and asked me to come down - went there looked like something the cat just dragged in, hair a mess, old work in the yard clothes on - and the owner gave me keys to several cars and let me go nuts
ordered the car there - the owner handed me over to a salesman - and we refined the order in a few more visits - then the salesman had to put up with all my calls and was always polite and helpful
I do not know if there is a moral to the story, but I think it is very salesperson dependant
Yes, the cars do seel themselves, and they never pressured me - but I like the dealer that treats me as a person regardless of appearance.
Also I wonder if they know they will loose sales to people, but many young people and shabby looking people come in and waste their time and they are willing to pass on the few ligitimate buyers to save their time.
Do not know if this made sense, but that was my experience
I have posted my experience on some other threads, but here it is again.
First dealership - day 1 - went in looking respectable, got a good salesperson, drove several cars
day 2- took my wife and 3 kids to the dealership to see the cars - my first salesman was not there, I looked shabby having been worked the prior night - was in the dealership 20-30 minutes before someoen helped me and then was not much help - an attractive blonde walked in nicely dressed and had slaes people all over her
my wife called another dealership and the owner then called me and asked me to come down - went there looked like something the cat just dragged in, hair a mess, old work in the yard clothes on - and the owner gave me keys to several cars and let me go nuts
ordered the car there - the owner handed me over to a salesman - and we refined the order in a few more visits - then the salesman had to put up with all my calls and was always polite and helpful
I do not know if there is a moral to the story, but I think it is very salesperson dependant
Yes, the cars do seel themselves, and they never pressured me - but I like the dealer that treats me as a person regardless of appearance.
Also I wonder if they know they will loose sales to people, but many young people and shabby looking people come in and waste their time and they are willing to pass on the few ligitimate buyers to save their time.
Do not know if this made sense, but that was my experience
12-09-2005, 08:24 PM
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I did call customer relations about my issues. I don't know if I shot myself in the foot with that one. Hopefully the dealer will treat me a little more respect.
12-09-2005, 08:30 PM
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This thread explains why car makers like Hyundai and Chevrolet outrank BMW in customer retention. 
,I am not sure exactly what you are saying about the link. I don't see the "explains why" part. To me, the "why" would be why BMW customers are relatively less satisfied with BMW quality and service than are, for example, Chevrolet customers with Chevrolet quality and service. I think the why would be good to consider. So, I'll speculate some below. I emphasize the word, speculate, because I really don't "know" the why.I suspect there are several issues that cause the difference. First, I think that regardless of the car, customers are going to have some "base-level" problems with, for example, engines, trannys, and air conditioners. I think that those who buy more expensive cars are less forgiving about these sorts of expected base-level problems because they pay significantly more for their cars. In many ways, paying more, I think, does not immunize one from these types of problems. And, I think that, for example, Chevrolet is doing a good job in keeping base-level problems low even if not as low as does BMW. And, in this regard, I think BMW owners are conditioned to believe that they should have few, if any, base-level problems, while Chevrolet owners expect such problems.
The second issue is the expected problems with ultra-high techness. That is, the luxury car manufacturers are building in considerably more high techness than, say, Chevrolet. And, being on the cutting edge is bound to be problematic, although some will pull the trick off more successfully than others. In this regard, BMW owners experience a great deal more frustration with ultra high techness than do, say, Chevrolet, owners. And, then price rears its head again. Many BMW owners think, unrealistically, that they should not have such problems because they pay more for cutting-edge cars.
With respect to satisfaction with actual service, I suspect that BMW's high techness results in more service frustrations for BMW owners than the problems that occur with Chevrolets and, thus, are more critical of their service encounters. I also think that BMW owners have much higher expectations about receiving excellent service than do Chevrolet customers. Thus, BMW owners are more frequently disappointed in their service experiences even if the experience are better than would have been experienced at Chevrolet.
On the issue of, say, BMW versus Lexus, two factors may be in play. First, I think that the Japanese are winning the high-tech dependability war. And, second, in many ways Lexus service may be nicer. When we got our X5, we sold our Lexus RX300. Both of the related dealerships are excellent. Below is my contrast between the two. Remember that I know that all Lexus dealers are not the same and that all BMW dealers are not the same.
BMW Dealer:
1. Limited donuts and unlimited excellent coffee and hot tea;
2. Invisible cost of service included in cost of car;
3. Nice area to wait and watch huge HD TV with computer stations near by; and
4. Customer taken to on-site Avis dealer to get a Mazda 6.
Lexus Dealer:
1. Unlimited excellent coffee, hot tea, donuts, other pasteries, muffins, sandwiches, cokes, iced tea, hot chocolate, etc., etc.;
2. Seemingly high service costs paid at time of service;
3. More comfortable, although not nicer, waiting area with nice HD TV and computer stations in the area;
4. Loaner provided at the dealership at least as good as the car being serviced.
I am betting that most customers realized that BMW service is not free and that the costs of BMW and Lexus service are similar. Given these basic understandings, I am betting the Lexus owners go away from their service adventures more satisfied on average than do BMW owners as a consequence some low-level creature comforts.
[/quote]
I think the "why" is spelled out in this thread and througout this board.
Two factors, in my opinion, lead to lower customer retention for BMW: (1) unsatisfactory dealer service experiences and (2) software/technology glitches.
On the first, it is not enough that the cars themselves are in demand. BMW should demand that their dealer networks strive to achieve high customer satisfaction ratings, without gimmicks (e.g., "make sure to give me all '5s' and I'll throw in a license plate frame!").
On the second issue, it is not an excuse that just because BMW cars are more tech driven they should be given a free ride on glitches. I would almost say a Lexus GS has more technology gizmos than an E60 and yet (while software bugs persist) the Lexus suffers no where near the tech problems the E60 does. If BMW cannot build a less error prone technologically driven car, then it should tone down the gizmos on the car.
Sigh.
12-09-2005, 11:04 PM
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From my salesman, to the service department, my experiences have been pretty positive. I did not even know that I was supposed to get a key chain but the parts guy let me pick any chain in the display I wanted even if it was more expensive than what I should have gotten. As a matter of fact, I chose a smaller simpler one, and he was trying to push for a larger expensive one. They also gave me a free shirt...they offered a nice polo but I just wanted a simple T-shirt. I find that I just have to be as patient and polite as possible, but know when to get irate...if deserved. I always deal with the same person in parts as well as in service. One of the techs recognized me at an auto show and gave me a discount on an item I was purchasing at the show! The waiting area in the service department and complimentary food is o.k. but I can't wait for the new building that is taking forever to be built. I'm sure it will be fancier! It'll just make me want to hang-out at the dealer more!
12-10-2005, 12:18 AM
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My Ride: 2006 525i, Alpine White/Beige Dakota Leather, Steptronic Automatic, Premium Package, Active Steering, Xenon Adaptive Headlights with Dynamic Auto-Leveling
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I hate my dealership. When I took my dad's X5 in for a service to a different dealership the guy treated me very nicely, even if he didn't mean half the things he said, he pretended he meant everything. On the other hand, I have the same feeling from my own dealer as you are. They asnwer my emails/calls if they're in the mood, or when I'm talking to one of the reps on the phone, the guy starts talking to someone else in the middle of our conversation. As long as they take good care of my baby, I'll still go to them 
12-10-2005, 05:41 AM
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My Ride: 2001 BMW330ci, Steel Gray, Black leather, Steptronic, PP, SP, PDC, Heated seats, Xenon head lights, HK, 6 disk changer, OEM alarm, OEM clears,Iice white fog lights ,Universal trasnciver, 17 inch Michelin Pilot Sport Tires
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I guess I'm one of the few that has a great BMW dealer,JMK, Springfield, N.J., in sales service and body shop,they are very friendly and realy know how to treat there customers.They are one of the reasons I stay with BMW's. Good dealers are hard to find.Put your dealer experiences good or bad on www.dealerrater.com so everyone can benefit from them. Don't be afraid to tell us your dealers name and location. Good luck.
cheers
vern
cheers
vern
12-10-2005, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ipse dixit' post='209382' date='Dec 9 2005, 08:27 PM
This thread explains why car makers like Hyundai and Chevrolet outrank BMW in customer retention.
,I am not sure exactly what you are saying about the link. I don't see the "explains why" part. To me, the "why" would be why BMW customers are relatively less satisfied with BMW quality and service than are, for example, Chevrolet customers with Chevrolet quality and service. I think the why would be good to consider. So, I'll speculate some below. I emphasize the word, speculate, because I really don't "know" the why.I suspect there are several issues that cause the difference. First, I think that regardless of the car, customers are going to have some "base-level" problems with, for example, engines, trannys, and air conditioners. I think that those who buy more expensive cars are less forgiving about these sorts of expected base-level problems because they pay significantly more for their cars. In many ways, paying more, I think, does not immunize one from these types of problems. And, I think that, for example, Chevrolet is doing a good job in keeping base-level problems low even if not as low as does BMW. And, in this regard, I think BMW owners are conditioned to believe that they should have few, if any, base-level problems, while Chevrolet owners expect such problems.
The second issue is the expected problems with ultra-high techness. That is, the luxury car manufacturers are building in considerably more high techness than, say, Chevrolet. And, being on the cutting edge is bound to be problematic, although some will pull the trick off more successfully than others. In this regard, BMW owners experience a great deal more frustration with ultra high techness than do, say, Chevrolet, owners. And, then price rears its head again. Many BMW owners think, unrealistically, that they should not have such problems because they pay more for cutting-edge cars.
With respect to satisfaction with actual service, I suspect that BMW's high techness results in more service frustrations for BMW owners than the problems that occur with Chevrolets and, thus, are more critical of their service encounters. I also think that BMW owners have much higher expectations about receiving excellent service than do Chevrolet customers. Thus, BMW owners are more frequently disappointed in their service experiences even if the experience are better than would have been experienced at Chevrolet.
On the issue of, say, BMW versus Lexus, two factors may be in play. First, I think that the Japanese are winning the high-tech dependability war. And, second, in many ways Lexus service may be nicer. When we got our X5, we sold our Lexus RX300. Both of the related dealerships are excellent. Below is my contrast between the two. Remember that I know that all Lexus dealers are not the same and that all BMW dealers are not the same.
BMW Dealer:
1. Limited donuts and unlimited excellent coffee and hot tea;
2. Invisible cost of service included in cost of car;
3. Nice area to wait and watch huge HD TV with computer stations near by; and
4. Customer taken to on-site Avis dealer to get a Mazda 6.
Lexus Dealer:
1. Unlimited excellent coffee, hot tea, donuts, other pasteries, muffins, sandwiches, cokes, iced tea, hot chocolate, etc., etc.;
2. Seemingly high service costs paid at time of service;
3. More comfortable, although not nicer, waiting area with nice HD TV and computer stations in the area;
4. Loaner provided at the dealership at least as good as the car being serviced.
I am betting that most customers realized that BMW service is not free and that the costs of BMW and Lexus service are similar. Given these basic understandings, I am betting the Lexus owners go away from their service adventures more satisfied on average than do BMW owners as a consequence some low-level creature comforts.
Two factors, in my opinion, lead to lower customer retention for BMW: (1) unsatisfactory dealer service experiences and (2) software/technology glitches.
On the first, it is not enough that the cars themselves are in demand. BMW should demand that their dealer networks strive to achieve high customer satisfaction ratings, without gimmicks (e.g., "make sure to give me all '5s' and I'll throw in a license plate frame!").
On the second issue, it is not an excuse that just because BMW cars are more tech driven they should be given a free ride on glitches. I would almost say a Lexus GS has more technology gizmos than an E60 and yet (while software bugs persist) the Lexus suffers no where near the tech problems the E60 does. If BMW cannot build a less error prone technologically driven car, then it should tone down the gizmos on the car.
Sigh.
[/quote]
I agree exactly. Well, except that I mention a few more issues above also that may contribute. I think there is one caveat. I think that it is important not to over generalize from what we see on these discussions since discussions, I believe, in general, bring out disproportionate numbers of those who are dissatisfied and who need help.
Originally Posted by vern' post='209549' date='Dec 10 2005, 09:41 AM
I guess I'm one of the few that has a great BMW dealer,JMK, Springfield, N.J., in sales service and body shop,they are very friendly and realy know how to treat there customers.They are one of the reasons I stay with BMW's. Good dealers are hard to find.Put your dealer experiences good or bad on www.dealerrater.com so everyone can benefit from them. Don't be afraid to tell us your dealers name and location. Good luck.
cheers
vern
cheers
vern
12-10-2005, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by vnod' post='209417' date='Dec 9 2005, 07:28 PM
[quote name='ipse dixit' post='209382' date='Dec 9 2005, 08:27 PM']
This thread explains why car makers like Hyundai and Chevrolet outrank BMW in customer retention.
This thread explains why car makers like Hyundai and Chevrolet outrank BMW in customer retention.
,I am not sure exactly what you are saying about the link. I don't see the "explains why" part. To me, the "why" would be why BMW customers are relatively less satisfied with BMW quality and service than are, for example, Chevrolet customers with Chevrolet quality and service. I think the why would be good to consider. So, I'll speculate some below. I emphasize the word, speculate, because I really don't "know" the why.I suspect there are several issues that cause the difference. First, I think that regardless of the car, customers are going to have some "base-level" problems with, for example, engines, trannys, and air conditioners. I think that those who buy more expensive cars are less forgiving about these sorts of expected base-level problems because they pay significantly more for their cars. In many ways, paying more, I think, does not immunize one from these types of problems. And, I think that, for example, Chevrolet is doing a good job in keeping base-level problems low even if not as low as does BMW. And, in this regard, I think BMW owners are conditioned to believe that they should have few, if any, base-level problems, while Chevrolet owners expect such problems.
The second issue is the expected problems with ultra-high techness. That is, the luxury car manufacturers are building in considerably more high techness than, say, Chevrolet. And, being on the cutting edge is bound to be problematic, although some will pull the trick off more successfully than others. In this regard, BMW owners experience a great deal more frustration with ultra high techness than do, say, Chevrolet, owners. And, then price rears its head again. Many BMW owners think, unrealistically, that they should not have such problems because they pay more for cutting-edge cars.
With respect to satisfaction with actual service, I suspect that BMW's high techness results in more service frustrations for BMW owners than the problems that occur with Chevrolets and, thus, are more critical of their service encounters. I also think that BMW owners have much higher expectations about receiving excellent service than do Chevrolet customers. Thus, BMW owners are more frequently disappointed in their service experiences even if the experience are better than would have been experienced at Chevrolet.
On the issue of, say, BMW versus Lexus, two factors may be in play. First, I think that the Japanese are winning the high-tech dependability war. And, second, in many ways Lexus service may be nicer. When we got our X5, we sold our Lexus RX300. Both of the related dealerships are excellent. Below is my contrast between the two. Remember that I know that all Lexus dealers are not the same and that all BMW dealers are not the same.
BMW Dealer:
1. Limited donuts and unlimited excellent coffee and hot tea;
2. Invisible cost of service included in cost of car;
3. Nice area to wait and watch huge HD TV with computer stations near by; and
4. Customer taken to on-site Avis dealer to get a Mazda 6.
Lexus Dealer:
1. Unlimited excellent coffee, hot tea, donuts, other pasteries, muffins, sandwiches, cokes, iced tea, hot chocolate, etc., etc.;
2. Seemingly high service costs paid at time of service;
3. More comfortable, although not nicer, waiting area with nice HD TV and computer stations in the area;
4. Loaner provided at the dealership at least as good as the car being serviced.
I am betting that most customers realized that BMW service is not free and that the costs of BMW and Lexus service are similar. Given these basic understandings, I am betting the Lexus owners go away from their service adventures more satisfied on average than do BMW owners as a consequence some low-level creature comforts.
Two factors, in my opinion, lead to lower customer retention for BMW: (1) unsatisfactory dealer service experiences and (2) software/technology glitches.
On the first, it is not enough that the cars themselves are in demand. BMW should demand that their dealer networks strive to achieve high customer satisfaction ratings, without gimmicks (e.g., "make sure to give me all '5s' and I'll throw in a license plate frame!").
On the second issue, it is not an excuse that just because BMW cars are more tech driven they should be given a free ride on glitches. I would almost say a Lexus GS has more technology gizmos than an E60 and yet (while software bugs persist) the Lexus suffers no where near the tech problems the E60 does. If BMW cannot build a less error prone technologically driven car, then it should tone down the gizmos on the car.
Sigh.
[/quote]
I agree exactly. Well, except that I mention a few more issues above also that may contribute. I think there is one caveat. I think that it is important not to over generalize from what we see on these discussions since discussions, I believe, in general, bring out disproportionate numbers of those who are dissatisfied and who need help.
[/quote]
I agree that forums and messageboards do in fact bring out more complaints than just the general, run-of-the-mill "no issue" transactions or ownership experiences.
But, if we compare BMW forums with (for example, only) a similar Lexus forum, then I would say that the BMW forum will have a disproportionate number of gripes/complaints, rants, etc. about technological bugs and glitches as well as sour dealership experiences than the forumites on the Lexus boards.
Just speculation on my part of course, no empirical evidence to support this, so take it for what it's worth and as always see my forum name/handle for the final "say" on what's right.
12-10-2005, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ipse dixit' post='209456' date='Dec 10 2005, 12:30 AM
[quote name='vnod' post='209417' date='Dec 9 2005, 07:28 PM']
[quote name='ipse dixit' post='209382' date='Dec 9 2005, 08:27 PM']
This thread explains why car makers like Hyundai and Chevrolet outrank BMW in customer retention.
[quote name='ipse dixit' post='209382' date='Dec 9 2005, 08:27 PM']
This thread explains why car makers like Hyundai and Chevrolet outrank BMW in customer retention.
,I am not sure exactly what you are saying about the link. I don't see the "explains why" part. To me, the "why" would be why BMW customers are relatively less satisfied with BMW quality and service than are, for example, Chevrolet customers with Chevrolet quality and service. I think the why would be good to consider. So, I'll speculate some below. I emphasize the word, speculate, because I really don't "know" the why.I suspect there are several issues that cause the difference. First, I think that regardless of the car, customers are going to have some "base-level" problems with, for example, engines, trannys, and air conditioners. I think that those who buy more expensive cars are less forgiving about these sorts of expected base-level problems because they pay significantly more for their cars. In many ways, paying more, I think, does not immunize one from these types of problems. And, I think that, for example, Chevrolet is doing a good job in keeping base-level problems low even if not as low as does BMW. And, in this regard, I think BMW owners are conditioned to believe that they should have few, if any, base-level problems, while Chevrolet owners expect such problems.
The second issue is the expected problems with ultra-high techness. That is, the luxury car manufacturers are building in considerably more high techness than, say, Chevrolet. And, being on the cutting edge is bound to be problematic, although some will pull the trick off more successfully than others. In this regard, BMW owners experience a great deal more frustration with ultra high techness than do, say, Chevrolet, owners. And, then price rears its head again. Many BMW owners think, unrealistically, that they should not have such problems because they pay more for cutting-edge cars.
With respect to satisfaction with actual service, I suspect that BMW's high techness results in more service frustrations for BMW owners than the problems that occur with Chevrolets and, thus, are more critical of their service encounters. I also think that BMW owners have much higher expectations about receiving excellent service than do Chevrolet customers. Thus, BMW owners are more frequently disappointed in their service experiences even if the experience are better than would have been experienced at Chevrolet.
On the issue of, say, BMW versus Lexus, two factors may be in play. First, I think that the Japanese are winning the high-tech dependability war. And, second, in many ways Lexus service may be nicer. When we got our X5, we sold our Lexus RX300. Both of the related dealerships are excellent. Below is my contrast between the two. Remember that I know that all Lexus dealers are not the same and that all BMW dealers are not the same.
BMW Dealer:
1. Limited donuts and unlimited excellent coffee and hot tea;
2. Invisible cost of service included in cost of car;
3. Nice area to wait and watch huge HD TV with computer stations near by; and
4. Customer taken to on-site Avis dealer to get a Mazda 6.
Lexus Dealer:
1. Unlimited excellent coffee, hot tea, donuts, other pasteries, muffins, sandwiches, cokes, iced tea, hot chocolate, etc., etc.;
2. Seemingly high service costs paid at time of service;
3. More comfortable, although not nicer, waiting area with nice HD TV and computer stations in the area;
4. Loaner provided at the dealership at least as good as the car being serviced.
I am betting that most customers realized that BMW service is not free and that the costs of BMW and Lexus service are similar. Given these basic understandings, I am betting the Lexus owners go away from their service adventures more satisfied on average than do BMW owners as a consequence some low-level creature comforts.
Two factors, in my opinion, lead to lower customer retention for BMW: (1) unsatisfactory dealer service experiences and (2) software/technology glitches.
On the first, it is not enough that the cars themselves are in demand. BMW should demand that their dealer networks strive to achieve high customer satisfaction ratings, without gimmicks (e.g., "make sure to give me all '5s' and I'll throw in a license plate frame!").
On the second issue, it is not an excuse that just because BMW cars are more tech driven they should be given a free ride on glitches. I would almost say a Lexus GS has more technology gizmos than an E60 and yet (while software bugs persist) the Lexus suffers no where near the tech problems the E60 does. If BMW cannot build a less error prone technologically driven car, then it should tone down the gizmos on the car.
Sigh.
[/quote]
I agree exactly. Well, except that I mention a few more issues above also that may contribute. I think there is one caveat. I think that it is important not to over generalize from what we see on these discussions since discussions, I believe, in general, bring out disproportionate numbers of those who are dissatisfied and who need help.
[/quote]
I agree that forums and messageboards do in fact bring out more complaints than just the general, run-of-the-mill "no issue" transactions or ownership experiences.
But, if we compare BMW forums with (for example, only) a similar Lexus forum, then I would say that the BMW forum will have a disproportionate number of gripes/complaints, rants, etc. about technological bugs and glitches as well as sour dealership experiences than the forumites on the Lexus boards.
Just speculation on my part of course, no empirical evidence to support this, so take it for what it's worth and as always see my forum name/handle for the final "say" on what's right.
[/quote]I see what you mean. My only other auto forum experience is "the" Z06 forum. I believe what you say, ipse d. And, what you observe is consistent with what I say above about BMW/Lexus, I think.