Dunlop run flat problems
03-07-2006, 05:00 AM
#21
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Simply, while you in fact have a fair point, I don't think you have any chance of succeeding with it.
On a previous Volvo I had alot of trouble with (Pirellli PZero I think) tyres wearing unevenly around the circumference, by the time they were half worn they were impossible to balance and had to be thrown away. This was known trait in the tyre trade at the time and I tried to fight it but got nowhere.
A parallel example would be oil consumption: I read that VW consider up to 1 litre per 950 miles (may have been even less) is acceptable, whereas it certainly wouldn't be to me.
While I appreciate your viewpoint, I have probably been ground down over the years into accepting that after 15k miles, you have a snowballs chance of getting satisfaction in this country. My advice (which you are free to ignore) is to move on as, in my experience, the toll on you is greater than the potential gain is worth.
Assume that 15K is the tyre life for one end of the car, you have had that.
Assume that the other should have done 30, so you have lost half the life of two tyres i.e the cost of one, say ?100 - ?150. Still a loss, but compared to the running costs of one of these things...
A 'friend' once took me for over ?40 grand, I didn't have it to lose and was paying it back for 5 years.
You can guess how I felt. One day I realised I had lost ?40k AND become bitter and twisted, so I put it down to experience and limited my loss to the cash.
Only you know what ?150 means in your life.
Believe me, we are on the same side, we just have different outlooks of it. All battles are bloody, so these days I only fight the ones I think I can win.
P.S. That doesn't mean that I am not looking forward to the day when I catch my 'friend' crossing the road in front of me
, and I also never buy Pirelli tyres!!
On a previous Volvo I had alot of trouble with (Pirellli PZero I think) tyres wearing unevenly around the circumference, by the time they were half worn they were impossible to balance and had to be thrown away. This was known trait in the tyre trade at the time and I tried to fight it but got nowhere.
A parallel example would be oil consumption: I read that VW consider up to 1 litre per 950 miles (may have been even less) is acceptable, whereas it certainly wouldn't be to me.
While I appreciate your viewpoint, I have probably been ground down over the years into accepting that after 15k miles, you have a snowballs chance of getting satisfaction in this country. My advice (which you are free to ignore) is to move on as, in my experience, the toll on you is greater than the potential gain is worth.
Assume that 15K is the tyre life for one end of the car, you have had that.
Assume that the other should have done 30, so you have lost half the life of two tyres i.e the cost of one, say ?100 - ?150. Still a loss, but compared to the running costs of one of these things...
A 'friend' once took me for over ?40 grand, I didn't have it to lose and was paying it back for 5 years.
You can guess how I felt. One day I realised I had lost ?40k AND become bitter and twisted, so I put it down to experience and limited my loss to the cash.
Only you know what ?150 means in your life.
Believe me, we are on the same side, we just have different outlooks of it. All battles are bloody, so these days I only fight the ones I think I can win.
P.S. That doesn't mean that I am not looking forward to the day when I catch my 'friend' crossing the road in front of me
, and I also never buy Pirelli tyres!!
05-10-2006, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Evenflow545' post='250697' date='Mar 6 2006, 07:56 PM
I'm not sure why only the Dunlops are affected, Znod, other than that it's just a bad combination of car and tire. Every tire has different physical properties, I suppose, and the Dunlops just don't seem to work with the e60 setup. It's hard to determine the exact problem, because I'm sure that both BMW and Dunlop are trying to keep things sort of quiet.
And, to make matters worse, I bet BMW has warehouses full of Dunlop runflats. That's why they keep replacing Dunlops with more Dunlops; which is sort of silly.
And, to make matters worse, I bet BMW has warehouses full of Dunlop runflats. That's why they keep replacing Dunlops with more Dunlops; which is sort of silly.
Chunks of tread are coming of the rears on the inside rim of the tyres, I'm not happy and I'm getting the same feedback that other UK consumers are getting from the dealer that it isnt a BMW problem but the tyre manufacturers. They have called them in to inspect my tyres so we will see.
Will keep you all informed
05-10-2006, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Keith Farrow' post='249656' date='Mar 4 2006, 01:26 PM
UK consumer laws make it clear that goods should be fit for the purpose.
However the law also makes clear that the timeframe you have to claim that goods are defective is limited.
if a 'fault' occurs within 6 months of purchase, the assumption in law is that the fault was there at purchase and you are entitled to replacement.
Your tyres are 18 months old, so fall outside this. You would therefore have to prove they were defective at time of purchase, practically impossible to do.
I am not saying that this is fair or accetable but it is the law in the UK
I quote "If goods turn out to be unsuitable for their intended use or develop a fault in an unusually short period of time, the buyer has a right to a refund or damages. If some time has passed since the purchase was made, yet the fault is still deemed unreasonable for the use the item has had, then the buyer has a right to just damages. This means that the trader might repair the goods or, if this is not practical, pay compensation (adjusted if necessary to allow for any use already obtained from the goods). "
Sale of Goods Act 1979 and then amended in the Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994.
You can argue all you like, but legally you will lose and BMW know this.
However the law also makes clear that the timeframe you have to claim that goods are defective is limited.
if a 'fault' occurs within 6 months of purchase, the assumption in law is that the fault was there at purchase and you are entitled to replacement.
Your tyres are 18 months old, so fall outside this. You would therefore have to prove they were defective at time of purchase, practically impossible to do.
I am not saying that this is fair or accetable but it is the law in the UK
I quote "If goods turn out to be unsuitable for their intended use or develop a fault in an unusually short period of time, the buyer has a right to a refund or damages. If some time has passed since the purchase was made, yet the fault is still deemed unreasonable for the use the item has had, then the buyer has a right to just damages. This means that the trader might repair the goods or, if this is not practical, pay compensation (adjusted if necessary to allow for any use already obtained from the goods). "
Sale of Goods Act 1979 and then amended in the Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994.
You can argue all you like, but legally you will lose and BMW know this.
As per your quote - 'if goods develop a fault within an unusually short period of time' - then the buyer has a strong legal case.
Being a pedantic b*gger I have often explained this at length to people who try to sell me extended warranties for television / white goods etcetra.
Oh and as to it being the tyre manufacturers problem not BMW's - this is b*ll*cks.
BMW are the vendor of the product and are entirely resonsible for it. Your contract is with BMW, who have warrented the entire car.
You have no contract or warranty (beyond a basic product guarantee) with dunlop.
You have zero chance of succeeding with a claim against a product guarantee after it expires. The only hope is the sale of goods act and the BMW warranty. I would advise ANYONE who wants to fight this to ABSOLUTELY refuse to deal with anyone else but BMW.
They say 'what would you do if your TV failed a month after the 12 month guarantee period' - when I say I would take it back and ask for a repair or replacement under the sale of goods act because I should reasonably expect a TV to last more than 12 months they start to get upset.
However, the problem with the runflats is a difficult one - mainly cause tyres are a consumable item (ie they wear out) and the speed with which they wear out is influenced by the way in which they are used (ie how much time you spend pulling donuts and handbrake turns).
The amount of mileage you can expect from tyres varies massively according to the type of driving you do. I do a lot of long distance motorway trips for work and on my last car (e46 320cd) after 18 months and 50,000 miles my front tyres (not runflats) were only 1/3 worn and my rears half worn.
Clearly the runflats wear really badly and (for most types of driving) for them to wear beyond the legal minimum after 15,000 miles is appalling.
The problem with any claim though is 'what is the expected / reasonable lifespan for a tyre?' - i.e is the runflat faulty and wearing out faster than it should - or does it just have a rubbish lifespan.
If it is faulty - then you get a free replacement - if it is just rubbish - then you have bought a car with rubbish tyres.
If a number of UK owners got together they could try to put together a case with an 'independant experts report' that might identify why the runflats last so badly and this could get them somewhere with BMW UK.
On an individual basis, even though I love an argument, I don't think this one can be won.
Oh ... and as to it being dunlops problem rather than BMW's - B*lls. This is the old divide and confuse technique of blame avoidance.
BMW are selling the car and offering a full warranty. Your contract is with them not Dunlop. At best all dunlop could owe you is a product guarantee (and I don't think there is even one of them in this case).
My advice would be to insist on answers from BMW and to refuse to speak to dunlop on their behalf.
05-10-2006, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ianmcc' post='248663' date='Mar 2 2006, 08:35 PM
Hi everyone,
After lurking on these forums for a few weeks and finding lots of useful information, I have decided to make my first post.
I have been able to find from these forums that I am not alone in having problems my Dunlop 17" Run flats on my August 04 530d. When I found the TSB that some members kindly posted I was delighted, as I thought that BMW UK would not be able to avoid the issue. Even though the TSB was for North America, to me it provided clear evidence that these particular tyres are defective, and also dangerous. My car has 15,000 miles and the fronts are in a disgraceful condition, and the backs are not much better.
However, I have spent most of today fighting with my Local dealer, followed by at least 1 1/2 hrs on the phone with BMW UK Customer service. The dealer has let slip that they have had issues with these tyres, but BMW UK can only say "not that we are aware of" when I put it to them that there is a known problem with the tyres. Even when I fax the North American TSB to them they can only say that "This is the UK, not America" Even after this, they will not admit to the problems.
After wasting a lot of time today, they ended up offering me no other option but to spend ?700 on 4 new tyres, and the possibility that Dunlop might make a goodwill gesture after the defective tyres are sent for analysis. This is pathetic - as far as BMW UK are concerned, the problem is to be sorted out between me and Dunlop, with the assistance of my dealer!!! In America you guys get 4 new tires!!
Is there anyone on here from the UK that has encountered this problem, and if so how did you get the issue resolved? Needless to say I am absolutely livid, and am refusing to pay up, but this leaves me with an unsafe car until this issue is resolved.
Any ideas where I stand? Am I being unreasonable or are BMW?
Anyway, it is good to have joined this forum.
Ian
After lurking on these forums for a few weeks and finding lots of useful information, I have decided to make my first post.
I have been able to find from these forums that I am not alone in having problems my Dunlop 17" Run flats on my August 04 530d. When I found the TSB that some members kindly posted I was delighted, as I thought that BMW UK would not be able to avoid the issue. Even though the TSB was for North America, to me it provided clear evidence that these particular tyres are defective, and also dangerous. My car has 15,000 miles and the fronts are in a disgraceful condition, and the backs are not much better.
However, I have spent most of today fighting with my Local dealer, followed by at least 1 1/2 hrs on the phone with BMW UK Customer service. The dealer has let slip that they have had issues with these tyres, but BMW UK can only say "not that we are aware of" when I put it to them that there is a known problem with the tyres. Even when I fax the North American TSB to them they can only say that "This is the UK, not America" Even after this, they will not admit to the problems.
After wasting a lot of time today, they ended up offering me no other option but to spend ?700 on 4 new tyres, and the possibility that Dunlop might make a goodwill gesture after the defective tyres are sent for analysis. This is pathetic - as far as BMW UK are concerned, the problem is to be sorted out between me and Dunlop, with the assistance of my dealer!!! In America you guys get 4 new tires!!
Is there anyone on here from the UK that has encountered this problem, and if so how did you get the issue resolved? Needless to say I am absolutely livid, and am refusing to pay up, but this leaves me with an unsafe car until this issue is resolved.
Any ideas where I stand? Am I being unreasonable or are BMW?
Anyway, it is good to have joined this forum.
Ian
Greeting Ian,
If I were you I would email the MD of BMW UK and let him know that his organisation are telling blatant lies to their customers. It is well documented on all these forums that Dunlop RF's are rubbish. In essence when I wanted normal tyres on my car they would not supply me with them, we are in actual fact guinea pigs for Dunlop and they must be under a major kick back from BMW for free development information. In a lot of other countries they just replace the tyres but in UK and Ireland where they dont really care too much about customer service they automatically go into denial mode. If you dont have any luck mailing MD UK then mail MD of germany thats what I usually do when I have problems/
10-14-2006, 12:19 PM
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Hi there,
I am about to take BMW UK to court and would really likeget as much info on your cast.
I have had a blow out at 75mph on and when we check the rest of the tyres I was lucky that all 4 didn't go at the same time and kill me. BMW are aware of this my dealer admitted to BMW paying for body work damage of a rear tyre that went like mine and took out the rear wheel arch.
PM me and I will be happy to have a chat and email you the letter I sent to Jim O'Donnel the BMW uk CEO. I am also looking for as many UK E60/E61 owners in the same boat as we are all getting the shaft here and I am not going to sit back and take it.
PS To all you out there that think 12k is a good milage for a tyre I will be posting the pictures very soon of my Goodyear tyres and what happend. Then maybe you will think again about this wonder technolgy that could kill you of your family members.
I am about to take BMW UK to court and would really likeget as much info on your cast.
I have had a blow out at 75mph on and when we check the rest of the tyres I was lucky that all 4 didn't go at the same time and kill me. BMW are aware of this my dealer admitted to BMW paying for body work damage of a rear tyre that went like mine and took out the rear wheel arch.
PM me and I will be happy to have a chat and email you the letter I sent to Jim O'Donnel the BMW uk CEO. I am also looking for as many UK E60/E61 owners in the same boat as we are all getting the shaft here and I am not going to sit back and take it.
PS To all you out there that think 12k is a good milage for a tyre I will be posting the pictures very soon of my Goodyear tyres and what happend. Then maybe you will think again about this wonder technolgy that could kill you of your family members.
10-14-2006, 12:48 PM
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Also another point apart from my appalling spelling if you have purchased the car through finance the legal action is in fact with the finance company and not BMW.
You are actually covered by the "Sales of goods implied terms ACT" which effectively gives you the same rights as somebody hiring a car from an AVIS or HERTZ. It is my understanding that you are entitled to compensation from the finance company and in some cases you are allowed to stop payments all together if you have a defective car or part of it. As it has been effectlvly missold to you.
For more information I suggest you ring Consumer Direct on 08454 04 0500 they will help you word the letter to the finance company.
Also you should check you house insurance which normally has legal cover included so it will cost you nothing to take BMW to court if you fancy it.
If you look at the sale of goods act and can prove there is a problem with the vehicle you are entitled to a like 4 like replacement, which doesn?t solve the problem of the RFT or a partial refund.
The partial refund is in fact the difference of the trade in value of the car and the as new price. However the sale of goods act is against the dealer not BMW UK.
But who cares !!!
As I said in my previous post I have sent a letter to Jim O'Donnell the MD of BMW UK and am very happy to give anyone a copy of it for you all to alter accordingly and would welcome any other cases of RFT failure to help me put my case together and of course I am happy to help you.
This is nothing more than another arrogant corporate trying to push the UK public around. I would expect this from a back street trader not a so called prestige company like BMW.
As a final note and I will step down off the soap box now my brother Is in fact a BBC cameraman so if I don?t get anything from BMW I am going to setup a website which will be Google optimized for BMW RFT and get a film crew down to Bracknell to see in Jimbo wants a chat with his adoring BMW public.
You are actually covered by the "Sales of goods implied terms ACT" which effectively gives you the same rights as somebody hiring a car from an AVIS or HERTZ. It is my understanding that you are entitled to compensation from the finance company and in some cases you are allowed to stop payments all together if you have a defective car or part of it. As it has been effectlvly missold to you.
For more information I suggest you ring Consumer Direct on 08454 04 0500 they will help you word the letter to the finance company.
Also you should check you house insurance which normally has legal cover included so it will cost you nothing to take BMW to court if you fancy it.
If you look at the sale of goods act and can prove there is a problem with the vehicle you are entitled to a like 4 like replacement, which doesn?t solve the problem of the RFT or a partial refund.
The partial refund is in fact the difference of the trade in value of the car and the as new price. However the sale of goods act is against the dealer not BMW UK.
But who cares !!!
As I said in my previous post I have sent a letter to Jim O'Donnell the MD of BMW UK and am very happy to give anyone a copy of it for you all to alter accordingly and would welcome any other cases of RFT failure to help me put my case together and of course I am happy to help you.
This is nothing more than another arrogant corporate trying to push the UK public around. I would expect this from a back street trader not a so called prestige company like BMW.
As a final note and I will step down off the soap box now my brother Is in fact a BBC cameraman so if I don?t get anything from BMW I am going to setup a website which will be Google optimized for BMW RFT and get a film crew down to Bracknell to see in Jimbo wants a chat with his adoring BMW public.
10-16-2006, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by MrTeddyEars' post='344910' date='Oct 14 2006, 09:48 PM
Also another point apart from my appalling spelling if you have purchased the car through finance the legal action is in fact with the finance company and not BMW.
It's a bit like buying stuff with your credit card I guess - you get some extra cover...
10-17-2006, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by colejl' post='345458' date='Oct 16 2006, 07:13 PM
Bugger. I paid for mine with cash... It's a bit like buying stuff with your credit card I guess - you get some extra cover...
It's a bit like buying stuff with your credit card I guess - you get some extra cover...In fact, I doubt that anybody buying the car (NOT leasing it: i.e. through hire-purchase or loan, possibly PCP depending on the legal wording) is in any way entering a contract on the car with the finance company. They are only providing financial services to you.
If you are leasing (in any form), the finance company retains the ownership of the vehicle at all times prior to the final payment, and therefore is liable.
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