Just got back from the Chicago auto show (long)
02-11-2005, 08:20 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by my530i' date='Feb 11 2005, 03:11 AM
fp1,
If you have pic, please post them. We love pics.
Thanks
If you have pic, please post them. We love pics.
Thanks
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02-11-2005, 08:26 AM
#12
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Originally Posted by Guest' date='Feb 11 2005, 10:34 AM
[quote name='fq1' date='Feb 10 2005, 11:57 PM']
I'm curious about your comments on the M45's interior being crap. It looks good in the photos, but Nissans have never impressed me with the interiors. I must get to the auto show myself.
CVT Benhogan
I'm curious about your comments on the M45's interior being crap. It looks good in the photos, but Nissans have never impressed me with the interiors. I must get to the auto show myself.
CVT Benhogan
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02-11-2005, 02:48 PM
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My Ride: 545i, Steptronic, coldweather, comfort seats, Logic 7, front/rear seat heaters, navigation. sirius
I just saw your post over at Roadfly.org. Woah! Those guys are brutal...
02-11-2005, 03:13 PM
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My Ride: 2004 530ia, saphire black on black dakota leather, steptronic, sports package and premium package; heated front and rear seats, heated steering wheel, auto bixenon headlamps, rain sensor, dynamic drive, active steering, 18" rims, Harman Kardon L7, CD Changer, poplar wood with chrome accent on steering wheel and shifter, build date 10/2003
Originally Posted by fq1' date='Feb 10 2005, 08:57 PM
My superficial/subjective (just looks/styling/proportions, cabin design/style, room, quality/feel, does it feel right to sit in) impression/comparison of the new cars available in this class:
Looks/styling/proportions: The A6 followed by the E60, then a big gap to Acura, CLS, M45, GS.? The A6 just looks right and the E60 has near-perfect proportions.? The rest are just a mish mash of conflicting/contrived design.? The M45 looks exactly like a Maxima and when you look at it in profile you wonder what were they thinking!? The GS is typical Lexus NON-design that makes you wonder how the heck can they sell this crap (albeit only to us gullible Americans) and how the heck can rank their designs on par with cars that truly HAVE been designed.? And the CLS... unbelievable that M-B is now being forced to produce such crap to increase sales -- the E is a much better/elegant solution -- Schremp should be fired before he completely ruins that company.
Cabin: A6, Acura, E60, CLS, GS, M45.? The A6 seems to be asking BMW why did you decide to move away from the best cabin architecture in the world.? Too bad the E46 is the last of the great BMW car cabins.? Don't get me wrong, I do like the cabin of the E60, it's just that it is not the best cabin in the world as its predecessors' used to be.? Acura's looked good but I am wondering if it might be like an initial eye candy that does not age well.? The M45's is pure crap and the others are just unremarkable.
Quality/feel: A6, E60, CLS, Acura, GS, M45.? Again the A6 just looked/felt right followed very closely by the E60.
Room: They are all pretty close except for the CLS, which is actually a class and a half smaller.? Even though room with the doors closed on the others appears pretty similar but the M45 and the GS are poorly designed, with the relationship of the rear door apperture to the seat along with the B and C pillars not right.? Getting in and out was very difficult -- again poor design and WHAT WERE THEY THINKING.
Overall does it feel right: E60 by far -- and to me that is the most important category.? The others are way behind but are led by the Audi, Acura, CLS, GS and M45.
So why am I going ahead with the purchase of the 545 and not the A6?? First, because the E60 wins the category that is modt important to me.? Second, the only other one that is worth considering is the A6, and I know that Audi has not yet got the hang of perfecting chassis dynamics, nor is it yet good at optimizing and producing efficient drivetrains (engine, transmission and diffs).
My only regret is that I can not get the SMG (because of the wife) and will miss that absolutely perfect and meaty feel of that wheel.? Can someone here let me know if the not-sport package wheel is just as thick.
One last note:? If I had the wherewithal, I would get the Maserati Quatroporte -- the best sedan in the show -- those Italians really know how to do real design!
Looks/styling/proportions: The A6 followed by the E60, then a big gap to Acura, CLS, M45, GS.? The A6 just looks right and the E60 has near-perfect proportions.? The rest are just a mish mash of conflicting/contrived design.? The M45 looks exactly like a Maxima and when you look at it in profile you wonder what were they thinking!? The GS is typical Lexus NON-design that makes you wonder how the heck can they sell this crap (albeit only to us gullible Americans) and how the heck can rank their designs on par with cars that truly HAVE been designed.? And the CLS... unbelievable that M-B is now being forced to produce such crap to increase sales -- the E is a much better/elegant solution -- Schremp should be fired before he completely ruins that company.
Cabin: A6, Acura, E60, CLS, GS, M45.? The A6 seems to be asking BMW why did you decide to move away from the best cabin architecture in the world.? Too bad the E46 is the last of the great BMW car cabins.? Don't get me wrong, I do like the cabin of the E60, it's just that it is not the best cabin in the world as its predecessors' used to be.? Acura's looked good but I am wondering if it might be like an initial eye candy that does not age well.? The M45's is pure crap and the others are just unremarkable.
Quality/feel: A6, E60, CLS, Acura, GS, M45.? Again the A6 just looked/felt right followed very closely by the E60.
Room: They are all pretty close except for the CLS, which is actually a class and a half smaller.? Even though room with the doors closed on the others appears pretty similar but the M45 and the GS are poorly designed, with the relationship of the rear door apperture to the seat along with the B and C pillars not right.? Getting in and out was very difficult -- again poor design and WHAT WERE THEY THINKING.
Overall does it feel right: E60 by far -- and to me that is the most important category.? The others are way behind but are led by the Audi, Acura, CLS, GS and M45.
So why am I going ahead with the purchase of the 545 and not the A6?? First, because the E60 wins the category that is modt important to me.? Second, the only other one that is worth considering is the A6, and I know that Audi has not yet got the hang of perfecting chassis dynamics, nor is it yet good at optimizing and producing efficient drivetrains (engine, transmission and diffs).
My only regret is that I can not get the SMG (because of the wife) and will miss that absolutely perfect and meaty feel of that wheel.? Can someone here let me know if the not-sport package wheel is just as thick.
One last note:? If I had the wherewithal, I would get the Maserati Quatroporte -- the best sedan in the show -- those Italians really know how to do real design!
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Great Review!
I agree with the A6 Comparison too. Its got clean lines, and lots of quality, but doesnt stack up when driven againts the 5er. Plus, I agree with the feel of the E60 interior design, its hot, but just doesnt sit right from the classic designs of the E39 and so forth... It kinda lost that cockpit feel of "all orange instruments face the driver"! . I would also give interior quality over to E class too. There is just way too much plastic in the E60...
I gotta give it to Audi for the interior quality too. I dont think they stack up in the long haul over time, but they are very inviting to sit in. As for Acura, nice interiors too, but your right - they dont last... leather cracks and wood peels. But also in a different class of cars.
cheers.
02-11-2005, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by fq1' date='Feb 10 2005, 09:57 PM
Looks/styling/proportions: The A6 followed by the E60.
Cabin: A6, Acura, E60, CLS, GS, M45.?
Cabin: A6, Acura, E60, CLS, GS, M45.?
I also think the 545 lhas better exterior lines. And the mouth of the A6 is too much.
02-11-2005, 03:51 PM
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The A6 is a good looking car, from the front and the rear. But the side lets it down a little bit. Having it on a platform at a show, or in a sales mag it looks great, but take it out onto the road, and it doesn't stand out enough. I saw a black e60 drive past me this week while i was walking, and I couldn't see anything else on the road, it stood out a mile. What a great looking car.
I think its great that the e60 centre consol is flat and doesn't face the driver. I've always like symmetry.
I think its great that the e60 centre consol is flat and doesn't face the driver. I've always like symmetry.
02-11-2005, 03:55 PM
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My Ride: MY05 545i Jet Black with Auburn interior. SMG, Logic7, Sport Package, Comfort Seats, Navigation.
Originally Posted by BurgessMW' date='Feb 11 2005, 11:01 AM
[quote name='speedracerF4i' date='Feb 11 2005, 11:00 AM']Did anyone notice that the lower front bumper of a M45/M35 looks exactly like E60?
Imitation is the sincerest form of compliment.
Imitation is the sincerest form of compliment.
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[/quote]Thanks for the link. I came to conclusion without knowing that other people felt the same way too.
Now, I read the whole thread in the Infinity board and man, those people have no shame!!!! Those infinity lovers (freedom of choice) had no problem acknowledging iinfinity's blatant prejurism on E60.
02-12-2005, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerF4i' date='Feb 11 2005, 07:55 PM
[quote name='BurgessMW' date='Feb 11 2005, 11:01 AM'][quote name='speedracerF4i' date='Feb 11 2005, 11:00 AM']Did anyone notice that the lower front bumper of a M45/M35 looks exactly like E60?
Imitation is the sincerest form of compliment.
Imitation is the sincerest form of compliment.
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[/quote]Thanks for the link. I came to conclusion without knowing that other people felt the same way too.
Now, I read the whole thread in the Infinity board and man, those people have no shame!!!! Those infinity lovers (freedom of choice) had no problem acknowledging iinfinity's blatant prejurism on E60.
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[/quote]Well, if you were going to pick a design/car as your standard in this segment of the market, you be hard pressed to pick anything but the E60 at this point in time. Can't really say I would've done it any differently if the decision was mine.Clearly Infiniti has targeted the 3 series customers with their G35's and now the 5 series with the M35/45. But truth be told, Nissan's fascination with BMW designs can be traced back to the days of their Datsun 510 which used to compete head to head with BMW's 2002, on and off the track.
02-12-2005, 06:42 AM
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i thought its only me who finds the e60 stands out distinctly in the crowd of cars, glad that somebody felt the same.
i cannot stop looking at one even when myself owns one for the last 8 months!
the A6 has a fabulous looking front, extremely aggressive and an industry leading space age interior, if i am shopping totally based on superficial looks, this audi is my choice.
on the other hand everybody here knows how my decision turned out.
BTW i remember reading from the m5 board a while ago the launch of the e60 m5, a few 'japanese car people' were photographed at the show actively taking notes/ measurements/discussing/ checking things out etc. that was quite funny!
i cannot stop looking at one even when myself owns one for the last 8 months!
the A6 has a fabulous looking front, extremely aggressive and an industry leading space age interior, if i am shopping totally based on superficial looks, this audi is my choice.
on the other hand everybody here knows how my decision turned out.
BTW i remember reading from the m5 board a while ago the launch of the e60 m5, a few 'japanese car people' were photographed at the show actively taking notes/ measurements/discussing/ checking things out etc. that was quite funny!
Originally Posted by maylander739' date='Feb 11 2005, 08:51 PM
The A6 is a good looking car, from the front and the rear.? But the side lets it down a little bit.? Having it on a platform at a show, or in a sales mag it looks great, but take it out onto the road, and it doesn't stand out enough.? I saw a black e60 drive past me this week while i was walking, and I couldn't see anything else on the road, it stood out a mile.? What a great looking car.
? ? ? ? I think its great that the e60 centre consol is flat and doesn't face the driver.? I've always like symmetry.
? ? ? ? I think its great that the e60 centre consol is flat and doesn't face the driver.? I've always like symmetry.
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02-12-2005, 07:31 AM
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My Ride: Arrived 3 June 2005: 2005 545i - Orient Blue, Black interior, Sport, Steptronic, Cold Weather, NAV, Sirius, Logic7, Comfort Seats, Sunshades. What a glorious ride!
As I have mentioned elsewhere, anyone considering the Audi A6 should drive it over some expansion joints. This car has a horrible ride. "Punishing" would not be too strong an adjective.