How does porsche and ferrari do it?
11-04-2007, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by elyk' post='490004' date='Nov 4 2007, 09:17 PM
porsche+ferraris engines are highly tuned, but reduced life. if bmw made cars this tuned, reliability will be a problem.
11-04-2007, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by elyk' post='490004' date='Nov 4 2007, 09:17 PM
porsche+ferraris engines are highly tuned, but reduced life. if bmw made cars this tuned, reliability will be a problem.
11-04-2007, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MiamiPhill' post='490011' date='Nov 4 2007, 06:26 PM
Watch this then tell me about reduced life.
11-04-2007, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by swajames' post='490016' date='Nov 4 2007, 09:36 PM
That's a phenomenal video, MiamiPhill
11-04-2007, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MiamiPhill' post='490017' date='Nov 4 2007, 06:42 PM
The whole series is excellent...you should check it out.
11-04-2007, 05:53 PM
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11-04-2007, 05:54 PM
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I understand high rpms mean high hp but their peak hp is at 6600k just like most other cars or sport cars out there. their redline is not signifigantly high from my understanding. Lower than an m5.
Even if it were to build a car with 8k rpms redline-that is still impressive to build a production reliable engine that turns that fast. Those F1 cars spin like crazy but also last about 1 race long without something going wrong-if that!
Even cadillac, heaven forbid is making strides producing 305hp with their new cts v6 model-3.6l engine.
It is impressive how we make v8 power with 6 cylinder engines these days.
That wikipedia article was interesting as well. I dont know why they would be more expensive if being mass produced into bmws-but I am sure there is a reason.
Anyway I thin it is impressive to have a 3.6 l engine with 500 horsepower but that is just me, even if is with a turbo. A turbo which is probably minimally boosted considering their NA car has 415. The GT2 has some new wild intake system that it talks about on its site. I am sure that is good for 30 hp or so which means the turbo is not all that much I am betting.
I am assuming correctly that the new GT2 is turboed? It does not specifically say it on the site but considering the GT3 is 415NA and the 911 turbo is 480, my guess is the only way they got to 500 is turboing something no?
I must say bmw is impressive-my favorite all time engine is the I6 in the e46. Sure with 290 foot pounds it wasnot the torquiest of engines but it pulled long and hard to 8k rpms if I remember correctly and what was impressive was 113hp/litre which actually is not far from the gt3 118hp/litre so I do give props to bmw. That e46 is one fun engine to drive with.
Even if it were to build a car with 8k rpms redline-that is still impressive to build a production reliable engine that turns that fast. Those F1 cars spin like crazy but also last about 1 race long without something going wrong-if that!
Even cadillac, heaven forbid is making strides producing 305hp with their new cts v6 model-3.6l engine.
It is impressive how we make v8 power with 6 cylinder engines these days.
That wikipedia article was interesting as well. I dont know why they would be more expensive if being mass produced into bmws-but I am sure there is a reason.
Anyway I thin it is impressive to have a 3.6 l engine with 500 horsepower but that is just me, even if is with a turbo. A turbo which is probably minimally boosted considering their NA car has 415. The GT2 has some new wild intake system that it talks about on its site. I am sure that is good for 30 hp or so which means the turbo is not all that much I am betting.
I am assuming correctly that the new GT2 is turboed? It does not specifically say it on the site but considering the GT3 is 415NA and the 911 turbo is 480, my guess is the only way they got to 500 is turboing something no?
I must say bmw is impressive-my favorite all time engine is the I6 in the e46. Sure with 290 foot pounds it wasnot the torquiest of engines but it pulled long and hard to 8k rpms if I remember correctly and what was impressive was 113hp/litre which actually is not far from the gt3 118hp/litre so I do give props to bmw. That e46 is one fun engine to drive with.
11-04-2007, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by redwhiteblue' post='490026' date='Nov 4 2007, 09:54 PM
I understand high rpms mean high hp but their peak hp is at 6600k just like most other cars or sport cars out there. their redline is not signifigantly high from my understanding. Lower than an m5.
Even if it were to build a car with 8k rpms redline-that is still impressive to build a production reliable engine that turns that fast. Those F1 cars spin like crazy but also last about 1 race long without something going wrong-if that!
Even cadillac, heaven forbid is making strides producing 305hp with their new cts v6 model-3.6l engine.
It is impressive how we make v8 power with 6 cylinder engines these days.
That wikipedia article was interesting as well. I dont know why they would be more expensive if being mass produced into bmws-but I am sure there is a reason.
Anyway I thin it is impressive to have a 3.6 l engine with 500 horsepower but that is just me, even if is with a turbo. A turbo which is probably minimally boosted considering their NA car has 415. The GT2 has some new wild intake system that it talks about on its site. I am sure that is good for 30 hp or so which means the turbo is not all that much I am betting.
I am assuming correctly that the new GT2 is turboed? It does not specifically say it on the site but considering the GT3 is 415NA and the 911 turbo is 480, my guess is the only way they got to 500 is turboing something no?
I must say bmw is impressive-my favorite all time engine is the I6 in the e46. Sure with 290 foot pounds it wasnot the torquiest of engines but it pulled long and hard to 8k rpms if I remember correctly and what was impressive was 113hp/litre which actually is not far from the gt3 118hp/litre so I do give props to bmw. That e46 is one fun engine to drive with.
Even if it were to build a car with 8k rpms redline-that is still impressive to build a production reliable engine that turns that fast. Those F1 cars spin like crazy but also last about 1 race long without something going wrong-if that!
Even cadillac, heaven forbid is making strides producing 305hp with their new cts v6 model-3.6l engine.
It is impressive how we make v8 power with 6 cylinder engines these days.
That wikipedia article was interesting as well. I dont know why they would be more expensive if being mass produced into bmws-but I am sure there is a reason.
Anyway I thin it is impressive to have a 3.6 l engine with 500 horsepower but that is just me, even if is with a turbo. A turbo which is probably minimally boosted considering their NA car has 415. The GT2 has some new wild intake system that it talks about on its site. I am sure that is good for 30 hp or so which means the turbo is not all that much I am betting.
I am assuming correctly that the new GT2 is turboed? It does not specifically say it on the site but considering the GT3 is 415NA and the 911 turbo is 480, my guess is the only way they got to 500 is turboing something no?
I must say bmw is impressive-my favorite all time engine is the I6 in the e46. Sure with 290 foot pounds it wasnot the torquiest of engines but it pulled long and hard to 8k rpms if I remember correctly and what was impressive was 113hp/litre which actually is not far from the gt3 118hp/litre so I do give props to bmw. That e46 is one fun engine to drive with.
11-04-2007, 06:29 PM
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Here are a couple of thoughts on the subject:
1. To get high hp/litre requires a high RPM peak. If the GT2 or GT3 gets their HP peak at only 6600 RPMs, thats pretty good but still indicates high RPM torque. Variable valve timing helps but only goes so far to produce a broad torque curve. I bet both GT2/GT3 motors are skewed towards high RPM running and may not be as suitable for mid range power thats needed on the street. I'd bet the M3 CSL motor (best hp/litre by BMW) is less torquey on the street than the normal I6 M3 motor.
2. Turbos obviously really bump the hp/litre but have potential low RPM driveability issues when trying to produce big HP. Here the BMW 3.0tt is one of the best producing a broad flat torque curve with little lag.
3. Its harder for big motors to produce high hp/litre numbers for 2 reasons. One, they have to meet the same max emissions as small motors (which limits their max tune) and two, the intertia of the biigger pistons limits max RPMs.
1. To get high hp/litre requires a high RPM peak. If the GT2 or GT3 gets their HP peak at only 6600 RPMs, thats pretty good but still indicates high RPM torque. Variable valve timing helps but only goes so far to produce a broad torque curve. I bet both GT2/GT3 motors are skewed towards high RPM running and may not be as suitable for mid range power thats needed on the street. I'd bet the M3 CSL motor (best hp/litre by BMW) is less torquey on the street than the normal I6 M3 motor.
2. Turbos obviously really bump the hp/litre but have potential low RPM driveability issues when trying to produce big HP. Here the BMW 3.0tt is one of the best producing a broad flat torque curve with little lag.
3. Its harder for big motors to produce high hp/litre numbers for 2 reasons. One, they have to meet the same max emissions as small motors (which limits their max tune) and two, the intertia of the biigger pistons limits max RPMs.
11-04-2007, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard in NC' post='490042' date='Nov 4 2007, 07:29 PM
Here are a couple of thoughts on the subject:
1. To get high hp/litre requires a high RPM peak. If the GT2 or GT3 gets their HP peak at only 6600 RPMs, thats pretty good but still indicates high RPM torque. Variable valve timing helps but only goes so far to produce a broad torque curve. I bet both GT2/GT3 motors are skewed towards high RPM running and may not be as suitable for mid range power thats needed on the street. I'd bet the M3 CSL motor (best hp/litre by BMW) is less torquey on the street than the normal I6 M3 motor.
2. Turbos obviously really bump the hp/litre but have potential low RPM driveability issues when trying to produce big HP. Here the BMW 3.0tt is one of the best producing a broad flat torque curve with little lag.
3. Its harder for big motors to produce high hp/litre numbers for 2 reasons. One, they have to meet the same max emissions as small motors (which limits their max tune) and two, the intertia of the biigger pistons limits max RPMs.
1. To get high hp/litre requires a high RPM peak. If the GT2 or GT3 gets their HP peak at only 6600 RPMs, thats pretty good but still indicates high RPM torque. Variable valve timing helps but only goes so far to produce a broad torque curve. I bet both GT2/GT3 motors are skewed towards high RPM running and may not be as suitable for mid range power thats needed on the street. I'd bet the M3 CSL motor (best hp/litre by BMW) is less torquey on the street than the normal I6 M3 motor.
2. Turbos obviously really bump the hp/litre but have potential low RPM driveability issues when trying to produce big HP. Here the BMW 3.0tt is one of the best producing a broad flat torque curve with little lag.
3. Its harder for big motors to produce high hp/litre numbers for 2 reasons. One, they have to meet the same max emissions as small motors (which limits their max tune) and two, the intertia of the biigger pistons limits max RPMs.
The GT3 and GT3 RS both have 8400 rpm redlines, peak power is around 7600 rpm and peak torque at around 5500. Both are normally aspirated, 3.6 litres, and produce around 415 HP.
The GT2 is based on the Turbo motor, it's still a 3.6 but it's good for 530 HP. 505lb ft of torque at 2200 rpm, and flat from then on up. The standard turbo is pretty similar, there really aren't any low RPM driveability issues with these guys. The GT2 is the one of the fastest production cars aroud the Ring hitting a 7:32 (same time as a Carerra GT).
Best bang for the buck for me is the GT3, it's just astonishing. The GT2 is a monster, but it's expensive, up in supercar territory at close to 200K!!!