How does porsche and ferrari do it?
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But the important point being made here, is that you reach a point of diminishing returns with a normally aspirated plant. An internal combustion motor is essentially a giant air pump, and once you reach the volumetric point of no more, the only avenue that remains open is to compress the air, or go to a larger volume. Most of what Ferrari and Porsche have done, is to tweak portions of this formula to eek every last erg out of the given volume. Ferrari uses a five valve system, with the odd valve used to get waste air out. You can add a few more ergs by making the engine components out of lighter materials, or by varying ignition sequences, such as measuring the temp of the incoming air, and the available air mass at elevation. All of these changes allow for more power, but the physics of getting more air onto the chamber, just cannot be broken without compression. One only has to look at the GT3 RS and the Turbo. Essentially the same engine, 3.6 lt. The GT3 makes 115 hp/lt, with 300 foot pounds of torque (406.8 NM). The turbo, on the other hand, gets 133 lt/h and a whopping 460 foot pounds (623 NM) out of the same displacement. This translates to .7/10 a second faster to 60, and stronger roll on acceleration as well. The real answer here, is to figure out how to do reliably bolt on a Turbo and a Supercharger, add some glycol injection, and then we should see numbers up to the point of complete overkill, which is just about right?
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Originally Posted by studavis' post='491329' date='Nov 7 2007, 04:20 PM
But the important point being made here, is that you reach a point of diminishing returns with a normally aspirated plant. An internal combustion motor is essentially a giant air pump, and once you reach the volumetric point of no more, the only avenue that remains open is to compress the air, or go to a larger volume. Most of what Ferrari and Porsche have done, is to tweak portions of this formula to eek every last erg out of the given volume. Ferrari uses a five valve system, with the odd valve used to get waste air out. You can add a few more ergs by making the engine components out of lighter materials, or by varying ignition sequences, such as measuring the temp of the incoming air, and the available air mass at elevation. All of these changes allow for more power, but the physics of getting more air onto the chamber, just cannot be broken without compression. One only has to look at the GT3 RS and the Turbo. Essentially the same engine, 3.6 lt. The GT3 makes 115 hp/lt, with 300 foot pounds of torque (406.8 NM). The turbo, on the other hand, gets 133 lt/h and a whopping 460 foot pounds (623 NM) out of the same displacement. This translates to .7/10 a second faster to 60, and stronger roll on acceleration as well. The real answer here, is to figure out how to do reliably bolt on a Turbo and a Supercharger, add some glycol injection, and then we should see numbers up to the point of complete overkill, which is just about right?
There is also the question of high RPM capability. That is what gives Ferrari, Porsche, & BMW their 100+hp/litre. A 400 ftlb motor that revs to 5000 RPM max makes less HP than a 300 ftlb motor that revs to 8000 RPM. Ferrari always had small displacement high RPM motors. BMW chooses to provide high RPMs but with broad torque curves. I prefer that over max high RPM power. I'm not saying Porsche and Ferrari can't do high power and broad torque but BMW can and mass produces their motors in cars that sell many times more than Porsche or Ferrari. Add the fact that most BMW motors can go 50k, 100k, or even 200k miles with minimal maintenance costs is not something that Ferrari can do nor possibly Porsche.
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Originally Posted by Richard in NC' post='491431' date='Nov 7 2007, 04:30 PM
I'm not saying Porsche and Ferrari can't do high power and broad torque but BMW can and mass produces their motors in cars that sell many times more than Porsche or Ferrari. Add the fact that most BMW motors can go 50k, 100k, or even 200k miles with minimal maintenance costs is not something that Ferrari can do nor possibly Porsche.
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Another benefit to higher RPM is the better mechanical advantage you have before your change to the next higher gear, which reduces your mechanical advantage with each shift.
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Originally Posted by elyk' post='490004' date='Nov 4 2007, 09:17 PM
porsche+ferraris engines are highly tuned, but reduced life. if bmw made cars this tuned, reliability will be a problem.
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Originally Posted by pukka' post='508566' date='Dec 19 2007, 06:09 PM
BMW does make cars this tuned with the M class. These cars require strict maintenance to be reliable. Of couse if you can afford one of these maintenance costs are not an issue.
At least in the Ferrari case, don't forget about higher emissions and fuel economy.
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