BMW is in for a rough road.
#32
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Originally Posted by pennetta' date='Jan 10 2005, 08:54 AM
Vindication! Where's "Guest" when you want him.? Its really funny, But look at this New Your Times article published today about BMW hitting some bumps. Maybe they read this thread.
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As for the article, old news with very small sample -- Pennetta should read Driven. Further, we should add Pennetta to the small sample of examples produced by this Wall Street Journal reporter in the article of disgruntled BMW owners (at least it was not the NYT, which has no further credibility in my book after the scandals and poor election reporting).
Further, the WSJ reporter has exceptionally poor analytical skills -- sure, he points to a 6% decline in auto (excluding SUV) sales in 2004 and a 3% decline in 5 series 2004 sales, although overall BMW increased 6% in 2004 sales. He fails to compare these sales results to any other European competitors so that the reader can get some perspective of how BMW is really doing in the overall market (e.g., according to FDMeloan in this forum, MB only increased sales 1.9% in 2004, at least 3 times lower than BMW's 6.9%).
More importantly, the WSJ reporter points out a specific example of a G35 buyer who gloats over the $7K lower price of his G35 versus the comparable 3 series -- this increased price due to extremely unfavorable $ vs. Euro exchange rates is exactly the primary reason that BMW has not increased sales even further in 2004. The 3% decline in 5 series sales can be explained solely by the elasticity of demand in view of the increased pricing relative to the 2003 models, which reflects the unfavorable $ to Euro exchange rates.
Of course, none of this appears to matter to Pennetta as he seeks only "vindication" (apparently from any spurious source that he can find) that BMW should increase the HP of each of its models -- good thing he is not running BMW....
#33
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Originally Posted by browellm' date='Jan 10 2005, 09:38 AM
You'll have to indulge me and quote the bit that supports your OP.? I reread and can't find it.
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I read in article in Autoweek that stated in March '05 the E350 will be making 272 HP and 268 ft/lbs and that a sports package will be offered that will not only be cosmetic as in the past but would include quicker steering, firmer dampers, firmer springs, bigger brakes etc. Sounds like BMW's sports package now.
Its cold, wet and the roads have sand on them from the last snow storm up here in NY and its depressing for us sports sedan fans. I love this forum, many helpful and intelligent people here, I was just making conversation. I'm sure BMW will continue to do the right thing for the strong survival of the brand.
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#34
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pennetta,
It would seem that BMW haven't been sleeping at all when you look at the outputs of the forthcoming new 6 cylinder engines (UK figures): -
525i - 215bhp, 184lbf.ft, 7.5 secs, 152mph, 32.5mpg
530i - 258bhp, 221lbf.ft, 6.5 secs, 155mph (limited), 32.1mpg
Compare the above to the current model: -
525i - 192 bhp, 7.9 secs, 148mph, 30.1mpg
530i - 231bhp, 6.9 secs, 155mph (limited), 29.7mpg
The acceleration times take the 530i to within 0.6 seconds of the 545i so it is little wonder that this variant is being replaced by the 550i.
At the end of the day bare horse power figures don't tell the full story. Torque is the factor you need to look at as this is where strong acceleration comes from - just ask any of us who drive the diesel models in Europe which will outrun the petrol equivalents in mid range acceleration (50 - 70 mph)
It would seem that BMW haven't been sleeping at all when you look at the outputs of the forthcoming new 6 cylinder engines (UK figures): -
525i - 215bhp, 184lbf.ft, 7.5 secs, 152mph, 32.5mpg
530i - 258bhp, 221lbf.ft, 6.5 secs, 155mph (limited), 32.1mpg
Compare the above to the current model: -
525i - 192 bhp, 7.9 secs, 148mph, 30.1mpg
530i - 231bhp, 6.9 secs, 155mph (limited), 29.7mpg
The acceleration times take the 530i to within 0.6 seconds of the 545i so it is little wonder that this variant is being replaced by the 550i.
At the end of the day bare horse power figures don't tell the full story. Torque is the factor you need to look at as this is where strong acceleration comes from - just ask any of us who drive the diesel models in Europe which will outrun the petrol equivalents in mid range acceleration (50 - 70 mph)
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#35
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Originally Posted by ISUK' date='Jan 10 2005, 10:22 AM
pennetta,
It would seem that BMW haven't been sleeping at all when you look at the outputs of the forthcoming new 6 cylinder engines (UK figures): -
525i - 215bhp, 184lbf.ft, 7.5 secs, 152mph, 32.5mpg?
530i - 258bhp, 221lbf.ft, 6.5 secs, 155mph (limited), 32.1mpg
Compare the above to the current model: -
525i - 192 bhp, 7.9 secs, 148mph, 30.1mpg
530i - 231bhp, 6.9 secs, 155mph (limited), 29.7mpg
The acceleration times take the 530i to within 0.6 seconds of the 545i so it is little wonder that this variant is being replaced by the 550i.
At the end of the day bare horse power figures don't tell the full story. Torque is the factor you need to look at as this is where strong acceleration comes from - just ask any of us who drive the diesel models in Europe which will outrun the petrol equivalents in mid range acceleration (50 - 70 mph)?![Big Grin](https://5series.net/forums/images/smilies/imported/biggrin.gif)
It would seem that BMW haven't been sleeping at all when you look at the outputs of the forthcoming new 6 cylinder engines (UK figures): -
525i - 215bhp, 184lbf.ft, 7.5 secs, 152mph, 32.5mpg?
530i - 258bhp, 221lbf.ft, 6.5 secs, 155mph (limited), 32.1mpg
Compare the above to the current model: -
525i - 192 bhp, 7.9 secs, 148mph, 30.1mpg
530i - 231bhp, 6.9 secs, 155mph (limited), 29.7mpg
The acceleration times take the 530i to within 0.6 seconds of the 545i so it is little wonder that this variant is being replaced by the 550i.
At the end of the day bare horse power figures don't tell the full story. Torque is the factor you need to look at as this is where strong acceleration comes from - just ask any of us who drive the diesel models in Europe which will outrun the petrol equivalents in mid range acceleration (50 - 70 mph)?
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Originally Posted by pennetta' date='Jan 9 2005, 09:18 AM
Torque is the measure for acceleration the new BMW 3.0 will have 221 ft/lbs while the MB will have 258 ft/lbs. Thats why the Japanese cars with 300 HP are not that quick, they still have much lower torque numbers.
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#36
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Originally Posted by nomad' date='Jan 10 2005, 03:00 AM
Sorry people's, but I bought my 525i because it is the best car I can afford. If I lived in Los Angeles I would buy a 545i, but I don't. And if you 545i drivers lived here in the UK, you would not be driving 545i's unless you are all truly millionaires.
I have always loved BMW. I don't believe that BMW being sold will affect sales. What will affect sales is if the production line they are built on is changed. Look at MINI. Everybody thought that BMW would dilute the MINI brand. 2 years down the line - everyone loves 'em.
As long as driving a BMW feels like driving a BMW they will always have a loyal customer in me.
I can't speak for others on the board, but I love BMW's because of the way they take corners, the way they shudder when they hit a bump in the road (you can feel the quality!!), the feel of the manual gearchange and the 50/50 weight distribution which makes me confident enough to 'feel' that I could actually control it if it ever went into a skid.
There is more than enough BMW pleasure to be had in my 525i Msport, which has been around since the 5 series first hit the streets way back when. Don't knock the masses (or as IKEA put it - The Many People). If not for us 525 and 530 buyers (the majority), there would not be a 545i or M5 to talk of.
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I have always loved BMW. I don't believe that BMW being sold will affect sales. What will affect sales is if the production line they are built on is changed. Look at MINI. Everybody thought that BMW would dilute the MINI brand. 2 years down the line - everyone loves 'em.
As long as driving a BMW feels like driving a BMW they will always have a loyal customer in me.
I can't speak for others on the board, but I love BMW's because of the way they take corners, the way they shudder when they hit a bump in the road (you can feel the quality!!), the feel of the manual gearchange and the 50/50 weight distribution which makes me confident enough to 'feel' that I could actually control it if it ever went into a skid.
There is more than enough BMW pleasure to be had in my 525i Msport, which has been around since the 5 series first hit the streets way back when. Don't knock the masses (or as IKEA put it - The Many People). If not for us 525 and 530 buyers (the majority), there would not be a 545i or M5 to talk of.
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#38
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Originally Posted by The Pentium Guy' date='Jan 11 2005, 02:33 PM
"$120 per tank of petrol? "
OH MY GOD! And I thought $30/tank was a lot!
OH MY GOD! And I thought $30/tank was a lot!
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Approx Price in London =82p
Cost of Tank = ?58 or USD108.
So I was off a little but we still have it really good here.
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Originally Posted by heezy545i' date='Jan 11 2005, 10:51 PM
Compared to other parts of the world are gas prices are rather cheap, but last year at this time we were paying at least $.20 less for premium.
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History may repeat itself (with respect not only to higher horsepower engines, but also SUVs) now if gasoline prices rise above $3.00/gal for regular unleaded in the continental US for any sustained period of time. With just the short rise in mid-2004, SUV sales suffered badly.
I do not believe that the existing hp race will last very much longer -- if gov't does not get involved to regulate hp (as gov'ts have done in most of Asia with displacement taxes to extract agreements not to exceed certain hp from the manufacturers), then insurance premiums will increase disproportionately for high hp cars making the cost of ownership unreasonably high and unacceptable (even for those glorified auto renters who lease). Thus, BMW and other manufacturers will have to consider innovations other than increased hp to improve the driving experience and performance of its vehicles.