Member/Vendor Detto
10-19-2008, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by advancedlogic' post='696675' date='Oct 19 2008, 03:03 AM
It's really not the responsibity for the moderators to take on the expense and possibly legal exposure for those selling things here for free. While unfortunate, it is up to each of us to ascertain risks and decide if we wish to take on said risks. The mods volunteer their time here. Donations, while not required, assist in keeping this free resource site...free. Asking or demanding moderators to take on expenses and risks for the things we buy will inevitably lead to the demise of the 'free' aspect of this site.
Due diligence on our part will demand that we thoroughly vet those we will entrust with large sums of money by demanding business licenses, copies of ID's, verifyable names/addressess and such. It's not that difficult to ask a vendor to provide these before forking over thousands of dollars. Trust is a major factor in the greatness of this community, but unless I have an ability to meet you directly, I'll limit purchases to sums I can afford to lose if things go awry.
PS - Shifty asshole vendors SUCK. I'm sure there is more than one attorney, law enforcement personel, and legal scholar who holds memberships on this site. Those with intent to defraud take heed of this fact.
Due diligence on our part will demand that we thoroughly vet those we will entrust with large sums of money by demanding business licenses, copies of ID's, verifyable names/addressess and such. It's not that difficult to ask a vendor to provide these before forking over thousands of dollars. Trust is a major factor in the greatness of this community, but unless I have an ability to meet you directly, I'll limit purchases to sums I can afford to lose if things go awry.
PS - Shifty asshole vendors SUCK. I'm sure there is more than one attorney, law enforcement personel, and legal scholar who holds memberships on this site. Those with intent to defraud take heed of this fact.
But you allways need to be aware that even if you have seen all documents you requested from a vendor it doesn't mean you are safe!
Things can still go wrong!!
That's the main reason WE can NOT do anything to protect our members.
But as you can see we try to help as good as we can.
10-19-2008, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by advancedlogic' post='696675' date='Oct 18 2008, 09:03 PM
It's really not the responsibity for the moderators to take on the expense and possibly legal exposure for those selling things here for free. While unfortunate, it is up to each of us to ascertain risks and decide if we wish to take on said risks. The mods volunteer their time here. Donations, while not required, assist in keeping this free resource site...free. Asking or demanding moderators to take on expenses and risks for the things we buy will inevitably lead to the demise of the 'free' aspect of this site.
Due diligence on our part will demand that we thoroughly vet those we will entrust with large sums of money by demanding business licenses, copies of ID's, verifyable names/addressess and such. It's not that difficult to ask a vendor to provide these before forking over thousands of dollars. Trust is a major factor in the greatness of this community, but unless I have an ability to meet you directly, I'll limit purchases to sums I can afford to lose if things go awry.
PS - Shifty asshole vendors SUCK. I'm sure there is more than one attorney, law enforcement personel, and legal scholar who holds memberships on this site. Those with intent to defraud take heed of this fact.
Due diligence on our part will demand that we thoroughly vet those we will entrust with large sums of money by demanding business licenses, copies of ID's, verifyable names/addressess and such. It's not that difficult to ask a vendor to provide these before forking over thousands of dollars. Trust is a major factor in the greatness of this community, but unless I have an ability to meet you directly, I'll limit purchases to sums I can afford to lose if things go awry.
PS - Shifty asshole vendors SUCK. I'm sure there is more than one attorney, law enforcement personel, and legal scholar who holds memberships on this site. Those with intent to defraud take heed of this fact.
10-19-2008, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by advancedlogic' post='696675' date='Oct 19 2008, 09:03 AM
It's really not the responsibity for the moderators to take on the expense and possibly legal exposure for those selling things here for free. While unfortunate, it is up to each of us to ascertain risks and decide if we wish to take on said risks. The mods volunteer their time here. Donations, while not required, assist in keeping this free resource site...free. Asking or demanding moderators to take on expenses and risks for the things we buy will inevitably lead to the demise of the 'free' aspect of this site.
Due diligence on our part will demand that we thoroughly vet those we will entrust with large sums of money by demanding business licenses, copies of ID's, verifyable names/addressess and such. It's not that difficult to ask a vendor to provide these before forking over thousands of dollars. Trust is a major factor in the greatness of this community, but unless I have an ability to meet you directly, I'll limit purchases to sums I can afford to lose if things go awry.
PS - Shifty asshole vendors SUCK. I'm sure there is more than one attorney, law enforcement personel, and legal scholar who holds memberships on this site. Those with intent to defraud take heed of this fact.
Due diligence on our part will demand that we thoroughly vet those we will entrust with large sums of money by demanding business licenses, copies of ID's, verifyable names/addressess and such. It's not that difficult to ask a vendor to provide these before forking over thousands of dollars. Trust is a major factor in the greatness of this community, but unless I have an ability to meet you directly, I'll limit purchases to sums I can afford to lose if things go awry.
PS - Shifty asshole vendors SUCK. I'm sure there is more than one attorney, law enforcement personel, and legal scholar who holds memberships on this site. Those with intent to defraud take heed of this fact.
A public forum is just for discussion about whatever topics that are set in the rules -- any buying/selling is "caveat emptor".
The forum can't verify sellers/vendors without getting into legal problems so.... that's it.
As for me, from now on it's: "DON'T BUY ANYTHING OVER 200 BUCKS FROM ANYONE ON THE NET"
Since all the slimebags now know E60 forum members are easy game, just watch out and don't get suckered into buying on the forum.
10-19-2008, 07:07 AM
#14
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Originally Posted by advancedlogic' post='696675' date='Oct 18 2008, 09:03 PM
It's really not the responsibity for the moderators to take on the expense and possibly legal exposure for those selling things here for free. While unfortunate, it is up to each of us to ascertain risks and decide if we wish to take on said risks. The mods volunteer their time here. Donations, while not required, assist in keeping this free resource site...free. Asking or demanding moderators to take on expenses and risks for the things we buy will inevitably lead to the demise of the 'free' aspect of this site.
Due diligence on our part will demand that we thoroughly vet those we will entrust with large sums of money by demanding business licenses, copies of ID's, verifyable names/addressess and such. It's not that difficult to ask a vendor to provide these before forking over thousands of dollars. Trust is a major factor in the greatness of this community, but unless I have an ability to meet you directly, I'll limit purchases to sums I can afford to lose if things go awry.
PS - Shifty asshole vendors SUCK. I'm sure there is more than one attorney, law enforcement personel, and legal scholar who holds memberships on this site. Those with intent to defraud take heed of this fact.
Due diligence on our part will demand that we thoroughly vet those we will entrust with large sums of money by demanding business licenses, copies of ID's, verifyable names/addressess and such. It's not that difficult to ask a vendor to provide these before forking over thousands of dollars. Trust is a major factor in the greatness of this community, but unless I have an ability to meet you directly, I'll limit purchases to sums I can afford to lose if things go awry.
PS - Shifty asshole vendors SUCK. I'm sure there is more than one attorney, law enforcement personel, and legal scholar who holds memberships on this site. Those with intent to defraud take heed of this fact.
I do know that, but the fact that so many members are being screwed, my suggestion was the same thing you were implying. "Due diligence on our part will demand that we thoroughly vet those we will entrust with large sums of money by demanding business licenses, copies of ID's, verifyable names/addressess and such " but instead of us, The moderators will ask for them.
Meaning, before allowing Vendors to sell here, they would have to provide all the neccessary liscences, address, etc... to the Moderators, which by then would be studied throughly and IF THE MODERATORS APPROVE OF THEM, then they would give them the GO to sell.
This way, everyone is safe and all is ok
, This is way if any scam is done, they could be tracked in a second. Just my 0.02
10-19-2008, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Bteljuice' post='696920' date='Oct 19 2008, 05:07 PM
...
Meaning, before allowing Vendors to sell here, they would have to provide all the neccessary liscences, address, etc... to the Moderators, which by then would be studied throughly and IF THE MODERATORS APPROVE OF THEM, then they would give them the GO to sell.
This way, everyone is safe and all is ok , This is way if any scam is done, they could be tracked in a second.
...
Meaning, before allowing Vendors to sell here, they would have to provide all the neccessary liscences, address, etc... to the Moderators, which by then would be studied throughly and IF THE MODERATORS APPROVE OF THEM, then they would give them the GO to sell.
This way, everyone is safe and all is ok
, This is way if any scam is done, they could be tracked in a second. ...
Doesn't work.
We would have to verify things at least once a month.
Tony/Quad_m/Zafer Tamer had everything at the beginning.
Detto has a shop...
You never know what happens... so we can NOT verify anything...
10-19-2008, 08:29 AM
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we need to have FBI or any law enforcement to be our member of forum so that they can check their informations for us...
Both quad_m and detto did not have a company website.
All vendor should have company website and in the forum they must include their phone number address on their posts and giving moderators proof of their company by copying license for business with copy of birth certificate or something. and three sources for proof of business at that location, for example utility bills, electrical bills, and landline phone as well. No cell phone or bills that they can change anytime.
no cellphone number crap anymore on this
Both quad_m and detto did not have a company website.
All vendor should have company website and in the forum they must include their phone number address on their posts and giving moderators proof of their company by copying license for business with copy of birth certificate or something. and three sources for proof of business at that location, for example utility bills, electrical bills, and landline phone as well. No cell phone or bills that they can change anytime.
no cellphone number crap anymore on this
10-19-2008, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Bteljuice' post='696920' date='Oct 19 2008, 08:07 AM
I do know that, but the fact that so many members are being screwed, my suggestion was the same thing you were implying. "Due diligence on our part will demand that we thoroughly vet those we will entrust with large sums of money by demanding business licenses, copies of ID's, verifyable names/addressess and such " but instead of us, The moderators will ask for them.
Meaning, before allowing Vendors to sell here, they would have to provide all the neccessary liscences, address, etc... to the Moderators, which by then would be studied throughly and IF THE MODERATORS APPROVE OF THEM, then they would give them the GO to sell.
This way, everyone is safe and all is ok
, This is way if any scam is done, they could be tracked in a second. Just my 0.02
Here's the other problem. Lets say they do agree to receive "all the neccessary liscences, address, etc", and 'approve' those vendors to sell there. By doing so, they are creating implied trust. They are either actually or implicitly stating that we can now TRUST a particular vendor. Purchasing decisions can be made based on this implied 'trust'. If another scam comes along and someone gets screwed under this policy, they can argue in a court of law that their decision was made based on vetting and trust implied by this site. And, right or wrong, they may seek recovery not only from the vendor, but also potentially from the site owners as they can then argue that their decision to purchase was based on the implied trust of a major web site. Chances are they won't win, but it's really unfair to expect the site owners to take on this added risk themselves, when it's far easier for us to protect our own interests by treating each potential purchase as the business transaction it is. And that means doing our homework, checking references, verifying brick-and-morter operations (something physical and tangible that a vendor has a vested interest in maintaining - home, business, etc), and for large sum purchases, perhaps creating an escrow account to release sums only when the transaction is completed to satisfaction. If the vendor cannot afford to have enough stock on-hand to ensure delivery, then it's up to us to decide if we are willing to risk it.
10-19-2008, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by advancedlogic' post='696997' date='Oct 19 2008, 01:09 PM
What you are asking the moderators to do is to spend their time, energy, and resources gathering information to verify/certify vendors. For free. If this site were collecting $100 yearly memberships, I can possibly see such a request being made. But, being the free resource that it is, it is unreasonable to expect those that already spend time, money, and resources keeping this place free to take on the added responsibilities of maintaining constant contact with vendors to ensure compliance.
Here's the other problem. Lets say they do agree to receive "all the neccessary liscences, address, etc", and 'approve' those vendors to sell there. By doing so, they are creating implied trust. They are either actually or implicitly stating that we can now TRUST a particular vendor. Purchasing decisions can be made based on this implied 'trust'. If another scam comes along and someone gets screwed under this policy, they can argue in a court of law that their decision was made based on vetting and trust implied by this site. And, right or wrong, they may seek recovery not only from the vendor, but also potentially from the site owners as they can then argue that their decision to purchase was based on the implied trust of a major web site. Chances are they won't win, but it's really unfair to expect the site owners to take on this added risk themselves, when it's far easier for us to protect our own interests by treating each potential purchase as the business transaction it is. And that means doing our homework, checking references, verifying brick-and-morter operations (something physical and tangible that a vendor has a vested interest in maintaining - home, business, etc), and for large sum purchases, perhaps creating an escrow account to release sums only when the transaction is completed to satisfaction. If the vendor cannot afford to have enough stock on-hand to ensure delivery, then it's up to us to decide if we are willing to risk it.
Here's the other problem. Lets say they do agree to receive "all the neccessary liscences, address, etc", and 'approve' those vendors to sell there. By doing so, they are creating implied trust. They are either actually or implicitly stating that we can now TRUST a particular vendor. Purchasing decisions can be made based on this implied 'trust'. If another scam comes along and someone gets screwed under this policy, they can argue in a court of law that their decision was made based on vetting and trust implied by this site. And, right or wrong, they may seek recovery not only from the vendor, but also potentially from the site owners as they can then argue that their decision to purchase was based on the implied trust of a major web site. Chances are they won't win, but it's really unfair to expect the site owners to take on this added risk themselves, when it's far easier for us to protect our own interests by treating each potential purchase as the business transaction it is. And that means doing our homework, checking references, verifying brick-and-morter operations (something physical and tangible that a vendor has a vested interest in maintaining - home, business, etc), and for large sum purchases, perhaps creating an escrow account to release sums only when the transaction is completed to satisfaction. If the vendor cannot afford to have enough stock on-hand to ensure delivery, then it's up to us to decide if we are willing to risk it.
10-19-2008, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudy' post='697018' date='Oct 19 2008, 07:52 PM
Did I mention that advancedlogic gets it?
