gdavis

beewang. I totally disagree about CR being unbiased! I am in the product design, development and engineering business and many, many of our clients know that Consumer Reports is NOT on target with every review that they do. They often take a thread of an issue an carry it away much farther than reality states.

They also have done Beer Taste Surveys! HA! Who in the world is going to accept a group of test engineers to determine Beer flavor and by who's scales and preferences??????

The new BMWs are on the leading edge of many things, technology especially. You don't get an easy road to how if you make a 'me-too' old technology chevrolet. But none of us wanted a car that is just like the rest, so we bought into the next generation of technology and we are part of the learning curve.

I love my car and wouldn't own a honda or a chevy for anything in the world. Let's give BMW the credit for putting leading edge stuff out there.

Tim C

Just to be clear here, the Consumer Reports reliability ratings are based upon owner survey response.

Hormazd

Fellow E60 owners.

This is the first car that I know off that has the potential to mature and become more reliable with age. The concept of having software handle 95% of electronics on the car is not only brilliant but revolutionary.

Our cars will have the same reliability as a MY 2007 E60, with just a software upgrade.

Most of the complaints are related to software issues which gets improved almost on a monthly basis.

Case in point 1 Bluetooth was made available to me in just this way.
Case in Point 2 The press ragged about the active steering. Most of us have it tightened already
Case in Point 3 Numerous issues with Radio audio etc have been resolved with software updates requiring only labor and no parts.

I believe that V14 is out. Within 6 months who knows how much better and more reliable our cars will get.

The problem (already mentioned somewhere in this thread) is that not all BMW service centers understand how to resolve these issues. The best do. The others are still basking in the glory of tuning the air mixture of a down draft carburetor with a stethoscope.

I believe that the consumer reports will be reporting hi- reliabilty on this car within a short period of time and beauty of it is that MY2004 E60s will also enjoy this reliability.

Rudy

You are correct that software improvements will more than likely trickle down to our cars and will fix some of the problems. The problem is that Consumer Reports won't change the historical record of their reliability tests.

If they test a 2004 model and it scores low, they won't change the score years later when the software is updated. Same applies for the traditional "blue book" values of our cars. That's why I'm leasing -- the residuals for this car were set pretty high which translates to a lower payment. Once I give the car back to BMW, it's their problem if they can't sell it for what they thought it would be worth at lease-end...

gdavis

CR has to interpret the data that they collect, and how they draw conclusions on that data is what is usually reported, not raw data.

For example, when CR reviews a totally new Japanese car, the say that while they don't yet have reliability knowledge on that specific car, history indicates that that Japanese brand does better than normal. CR nearly always says that Japanese cars have a high reliability, and nearly always downgrades German cars even under the same conditions of new models and previous good reliability history of that brand.

Their data is not raw, it is always interpreted from their point of view and projected interpretation.

Hormazd

You are correct that software improvements will more than likely trickle down to our cars and will fix some of the problems. The problem is that Consumer Reports won't change the historical record of their reliability tests.

If they test a 2004 model and it scores low, they won't change the score years later when the software is updated. Same applies for the traditional "blue book" values of our cars. That's why I'm leasing -- the residuals for this car were set pretty high which translates to a lower payment. Once I give the car back to BMW, it's their problem if they can't sell it for what they thought it would be worth at lease-end...
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Bottom line is. I don't care about the consumer reports. I care about the reliability of the car that I drive. So if old people that don't understand the car don't buy it and some consumers get swayed by the Creports, our cars become more exclusive.

wolverine

It's one thing to debate someone's subjective opinion of a car. It's quite another thing to debate a quantitative assessment of reliability. Unfortunately, the Europeans in general have a long way to go to keep up with the Japanese in automobile reliability. I really don't see how anyone could debate this point, even the carmakers themselves are acknowledging they need to do much better.

I love my car, and it's been nearly perfect. However, I have no problem agreeing with Consumer Reports if they rate the reliability poor. They are using real data from car owners. If this is a problem, then BMW need to fix it.

I'm quite concerned about the new M5. I just don't know if the Germans can deliver these complex electronic systems at a high reliability level. I might even forego my number one spot at the dealer to wait until they have the problems sorted out.

No company is perfect. BMW still makes the absolute best drivers cars in the world IMO. Their design capabilities are awesome, and they lead the way in performance engineering. But they need to get their act together in terms of producing reliable technology. No doubt about it.

pennetta

I read and attached the CR article . Did not sound so bad to me,

pharding

Consumer Reports Puts Their Pants on One Leg at a Time

I am a longtime subscriber and an Architect. With building products which I am knowledgeable, they on occassion flat out get it wrong. Their article on exterior building materials was factually inaccurate on several counts.

Rudy

pennetta, that's an old article.

I think the one that everyone is talking about today is this one:
CR_Reliability_Ratings.pdf