RydeWitM3

This is a review from the Lexus forum, from a member who went to a track and reviewed all these cars (here is the link just in case http://clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php...7#post1548307):

Well, this will be LONG. Very LONG. There are a lot of people who are interested in all these cars and this review will give you WHAT YOU WANT and what you DON'T WANT to hear. Its that simple.
My appointment was at 2pm and I left at 6pm. 4 hours of beating the snot out these cars. Big shout out to SELOC, we went together and it was fun hanging with my club/friends.

Here goes, I am mostly judging on handling and acceleration as well as where the controls fit me when I am pushing the snot out the car. THis is not a comfort/ride test.

Cars I drove multiple times
IS 250 AWD
IS 250 RWD
IS 350
BMW 330 Sport
Benz E 500 (17" wheels)
BMW 530 (17" wheels)
GS 300 AWD
GS 300 RWD
GS 430

They had the rest of the Lexus lineup there but this was time to see what the SPORT SEDANS can do.

Here is the initial order I drove the cars. I drove what I felt were the competiton back to back
IS 250
BMW 330
IS 350
then
E500
GS 430
GS 300 AWD
GS 300
BMW 530
then
BMW 530
BMW 330
IS 350

And after that I jumped around.

I am 6"5, 215lbs so u know how I fit in these cars. I know more about them than most everyone there, which means I took of trac control, I engaged all the manumatic shifting and really got comfortable. I COULD NOT understand the asinine I-Drive but more on that later.

Background
Well I was eager to drive all these cars. I've drive some before, others, never. As you all know, I've read it all about these cars and talked to owners about them. Here is a quick summary for those that don't want to read.
Exceeded Expectations
BMW 330
IS 250
GS 300
GS 430
Met Expectations
IS 350
IS 250 AWD
GS 300 AWD
Below Expectations
BMW 530
Mercedes Benz E 500

Now what are "expectaions". Sure.
I expect the BMWs to handle like kings and champs.
I expect the Benz to handle almost as good
I expect the Lexus to blend luxury and sport, more toward Lux.


First off, the IS 250
Well, let me say, this is ONE PEPPY 204hp. Its only underpowered on PAPER. I was shocked by how responsive this car was. IMO, this car was BETTER BALANCED than the IS 350. I kept the car in 1st and 2nd gears and the car felt light on its toes. The steering was lighter than the 330 so it was tougher to build confidnece in it, plus this car had 17" tires, not 18"s like the 350 or 330. The paddle shifts worked well, its great not having to have to leave my hands to shift. The shift indication if right in your face and when its time to shirt, the ring around the tach GLOWS in orange, pretty neat trick. The car went into the corners hard but I had to tap the brakes as it felt like it was tipping to much. But it was FUN, it didn't feel like a bad out of control. It was fun. The car handled very well, better than most cars.
I walked away VERY impressed, this car was a blast to drive. I was expecting it to be a slouch but it really accelerated well.

Next BMW 330
First thing, the seats were great. Tighter than the IS but in a good way. As soon as my hands touch the steering wheel, I LOVED IT. Tight as hell, I could not imagine driving this car while talking with a cell in my hand. U NEED both hands to turn it. After coming from the IS, both cars felt solid as a rock.
The throttle response off the line was very poor. I was shocked. The IS 250 took off as soon as I hit the gas, the 3 took a second to realize "oh he wants to go". But when I went, DAMN, great power, CLEARLY inbetween the IS 350 and IS 250. This car INSPIRES confidnece in the corners. This is my first time driving the car and I felt in TOTAL CONTROL the whole time. I didn't sway around in the seat, the car was planted and brakes nice and firm. I loved it. I really loved it. You read about this car but damn, its the real deal.

Next IS 350
Well most the only thing people are talking about thus far is how fast this car is. So I expect it to be fast. And IT IS FAST AS HELL! I mean this car took off like mad. It was ridiculous. The fastest Lex, by FAR. THis thing hit the redline in NO TIME.
Thing is, IMO, it seemed so powerful, the chassis was trying to match it. THe brakes are from the GS 430 and I don't really like the electronic brake crap (btw the brakes are HUGE). I was taking the corners at higher speed than the other 2 cars and the car was really battling to stay within the cones. I was braking a lot more than in the BMW. Everytime I hit the gas, this car was taking off so I had to be very careful or cones I was coming!!!
NExt thing you know, I was done. This car is FAST as hell, no joke. A LOT OF PEOPLEs FEELING WILL BE HURT AT STOPLIGHTS.

I leave grinning, all 3 cars were great, I left feeling the 330 was the best handling car, the IS 350 the fastest, the IS 250 a bargain for the price and a great surprise.

I eat again (of course) Talk with my fellow SELOCers and exchange notes. Off to the upper classs cars.

ALright, now the GS 430 line was ridiculous. Everyone and their momma wanted to drive this car. I noticed the 530 line was 2nd longest so I got in the E 500 line and then would drive the V-8 Lex to compare here goes.
E 500
Still a beauty to look at. I sit in it and the classic Benz controls on the door in the shape of the seat. Stil nice and functional. The seats were harder, classic German feel. The interior was black and it gets knocked for cheap plastics but felt and looked good to me. The V-8 was INSTANTLY responsive off the line. I loved that fact.
The rest of this story is bad.
The E 500 drove like a Sherman Tank. It was horrible. The engine, tranny and susupension were all fighting one another. I was in SHOCK how badly this car drove. It felt like driving a LS 430 but without the cohesiveness. i walked away very sad as I love how this car looks inside and out.
In the corners, the car just felt heavy and the steering was way off, like I was turning one way and the car was going the other way. The brakes were very solid though.

Next GS 430
I've reviewd this car already (thanks VVTi) but time to get meet again. The looks of this car have grown on me tons and in Flint Mica with the 5 spoke wheels. my God its beautiful. Sitting in it, it fits like a glove, perfect for me. Funny thing is, IMO, the IS offered just as much legroom and comparable headroom. And that V-8, it just makes wonderufl noises (and many people I overheard commented on that). I don't like the brakes. Period. Too damn grabby. This car TOOK OFF the line, as responsive as the E500. And it SURPRISED the snot outta me how well it handled. With IMO, BAD, bald tires. I took the slalom with plenty of confidence, the SPort and PWR setting did WONDERS. You read that this car doesn't handle like the Germans blah blah blah, they can kiss my ass, this car handled VERY well, IMO, on par with the IS though bigger. Which is why its my favorite behind the 330. This big car SHOULD NOT handle so well. And it has torque and speed for days. This car made me GRIN GRIN GRIN.

Next 300 AWD
Well this car has finished dead last in most all comparos. Its not that its bad, its just it isn't great. And I agree. The car is more than competant in the corners. It felt heavy though, you can feel the AWD weight. Agian, people magazine race the GS 300 has "only 245 hp" but this car had enough power to be entertaining. I was amazed, that this was a Lexus AWD sedan, who would have thunk it. The car went into corners heavier than the GS 430 with less power out the corners but it was much more composed than the sloppy E 500. Overall, I can see how this car will please tons of people in the snowbelt that don't drive aggresive.

Next GS 300 RWD
Again, with everyone b|itching how it only has "245 hp" I expected it to be slow. This car was peppier than the AWD, you can EASILY feel that this car is lighter. I loved it. I was shocked at how well it handled and how it left me feeling confident in corners. Hard to believe this is a LExus. The seats IMO, still need more side bolster support. The wood wheel did not disturb me and I was sweating in my palms. I pushed this car as hard as I could and a couple times, it squealed but I never felt I was going to lose the car. A big surprise. Biggest was the power, while the AWD 300 felt adequate, the RWD car felt peppy. more htan the IS 250 and slightly below the 330 but very close. The gearing was great, 1st and 2nd gear were where I wanted them.

Next BMW 530
After being surprised by the GS 300 and blown away by the handling of the 330, I expected this BMW to lead the handling way again. WRONG. The good thing was this car felt spacious but it may have some to do with it had light gray leather, while it seems every other car there had black leather. Headroom was good. Throttle response was better than the 330. This car handled WORSE than the GS 300 but better than the E500. I could not believe it. On top of that, 1st and 2nd gears were horrible. It was the ONLY car where I was constantly shifting back between gears trying to find the sweet spot. the ()#$() sweet spot was between 1st and 2nd apparently. The car felt as big if not bigger than it was. I was shocked that this car with the same engine as the 330 could be so different. You read the 5 series handling is Gods gift to earth but someone is praying to the wrong God. This car was bad.

So I drive the 530 again, b/c I think either I must be hungry or the car is not what people say. And maybe its b/c its not a "sport" package. But NEITEHR is the GS 300. So this is APPLES to APPLES.
Again, good throttle response but PONDEROUS in corners. It was ridiculous. And again, I am shifting like mad to get the right gear but I can't. I didn't let off the gas either, I am pushing this car as hard as it can go and well, it doesn't like it. This car is clearly for badge-hounds. YOU HAVE TO GET THE SPORT KIT.
The crazy, CRAZY thing is the 530 ONLY WEIGHS 100LBS MORE THAN THE 330!!! And it felt like 500lbs. I will say acceleration was brisk, very good, imo faster than the 300 and on par with the 330.

So next back to the 330

And, I LOVE this car. Where the 530 was a damn mess, the 330 is PERFECt. This time I pushed even harder and the car was like "GIVE ME MORE DADDY". And I did and she would not squeal until the very end. Balance, control, the steering was so good. Brakes were superb ONLY when I touched it which was at the begining and end. I didn't NEED the brakes.

I go back to the IS 350.

Its not even close, the acceleration. This car smokes every car there, now that I've driven them all. No joke, IMO, this car IS AS QUICK AS a 996 911 CARERRA (check my other review on that car, search). Seriously, the car is that fast and responsive. But it doesn't handle like a Porsche. this car is heavy, 300;bs moer than the IS 300. And you can FEEL it. AS an ex IS 300 owner (for a short time) the 1IS is just FUN, its light and compact. The IS 350 is bigger and you kind of forget about it not handling like the 330 b/c its so damn fast. That is what makes it fun. After 5 times, I finally got the hand of this car and went through the course without braking. And WHAT FUN it was. The 330 was a car that seemed to be a part of me. the IS 350 was a car that wanted to teach me. And I love both ways of doing it (DON'T GO THERE CHICAGO)

Now onto the non-driving items
IS 250/350

This car is so well built, it makes no sense. Eveything fits like a puzzle. The leather is great. Great plastic. Easy to read controls. Beautiful wood. The steering wheel leather felt different than in any other Lexus I have driven. it was GREAT. Visibility was good, IMO could be better (due to the stylish small windows). Space was EXCELLENT. I drove a sunroof AND non-sunroof model. That one had way more headroom but the one with the sunroof, I just lowered the seat. LEGROOM FOR DAYS.
I hate the new stupid complicated sunroof control. WTF if that? I liked the simple one touch before. I felt like I was turning on the #()$( microwave. The NAV is percfect, huge screen.
The car looks INCREDIBLE, pics do no justice. Details for days. The side mirrors are huge, lol. Othewise, a great looking car, the doors are kinds long to me (window to bottom). The wheels look beautiful as the stance.

330

IMO, I love the looks of this car. SO purposeful on the 18s. Classic BMW cues but in a new way without going overboard. The rear is off but growing on me. I love the sides. The interior had I-drive an NAV. I-drive is so ****ing stupid it makes no sense. The dash has too many lines, it looks cheap. No cohesiveness. I love the seats and the door panesl. Good visibility. Smaller than the IS, IMO but not cramped. Good legroom, avg headroom.

E 500

Gorgous, inside and out. Too many damn buttons on the dash. The gauges look cheap compared to the other cars there. Good Visibility, tons of legroom and headroom. Great place to be, IMO, Solid leather and plastics. Felt kinda "oldish" though, like an older mans car, compared to the Lexus and BMWs.

GS 300/430
Beautiful inside and out. I think, this car is better built than the current LS. Its smells of quality. The plastic, the wood, its ridiculous how well built this car is. It feels WORTH 50k. You can tell the difference in sitting in this car and say a car under 40k easily. The gauges are INCREDIBLE, like a work of art. The lil chrome trim is neat. Great legroom, avg headroom.

BMW 530
I-drive is the dumbest crap u can put in a car. I am a smart guy, I am stting there for 5 min and I can't figure this crap out. And this is the NEWER version. Its stupid, its like having a bell to ring for a butler that DOESN'T DO WHAT YOU WANT. So frustrating. The space is great, the dash is a mess, too many lines, it looks weird good but werid bad. The doors feel cheap. From the outside, this is one ugly car with the 17" wheels. UGLY. Scary, it was making the kids there cry.

UUronL

330i Sport vs. 530i non-Sport. Feh. I wave my furry paw...

IrishEyes

Interesting write up. Coming from a Lexus board, he has to be a Lexus driver with the possibility of a slightly tainted report. And I'd also say he has just about offended most of the E60.net members with his berating of the 530.

Some of his comments were easy ones to make while others were probably first impression responses (e.g. iDrive/cabin looks) that take a little longer than a few laps around a track to get to know or understand.

I certainly wouldn't have considered any Lexus previous to the current GS and new IS. Before buying my own E60, I had a brief drive in the GS300 and although was nice, I thought the BMW was a better car overall. Reliability? I'm not planning on keeping my E60 for the rest of its (or my) life so reliability wasn't at the top of the list. Build quality? Both are extremely well built and even though the Lexus has the edge, I don't expect anything to fall off the BMW in the time I have it.

Ride/handling? On the (brief) test I had in the GS, the ride and steering was not as good as the BMW. He didn't mention the steering in the GS. I thought is was numb. Re the handling, it was too short to determine the outcome of that particular match.

I was in a GS more recently and I thought the interior was smaller than I at first imagined during the first test drive back in June. And this was a bright ivory interior which should have given the impression of being bigger. It's possible the (lightweight) design of the E60's interior has become embedded in my sub-conscience almost forcing the impression of being more airy and spacious than other cars with more traditional interiors where the centre dash/console flows down to the transmission tunnel.

The IS is being launched to the public in Ireland on Nov 17. Although only the IS250 and IS220d. I was planning on going along to have a look.

I'd say some of the regular forum posters will have a full-on dislike/disdain for other manufacturers such as MB, Audi and Lexus. And I reckon some of that may be due to the in-built defence mechanism kicking in to defend one's reasoning and purchase decision of an E60. On the equivalent Lexus/Audi/MB etc boards, there will also be a large number of respective owners claiming that their cars are the best on the planet and claiming for their cars everything that we say about ours.




PS - Tell me Rydewitm3, what were u doing in a lexus forum.

JC3

People who can't work out idrive aren't necessarily stupid, but geez, can you handle an iPod? Well then idrive isn't exactly a massive leap is it?

These daft people really do my head in. Everyone seems to listen to what the car reviewers say about idrive, so already have a negative opinion of it.

Anyway, if you're not savvy enough to work out idrive, you're obviously not that clever... or you've never owned an iPod...

ipse dixit

All I have to say is ... the more competition the better it is for us consumers.

Go Lexus.
Go Merc.
Go Infiniti.

amigo525

Nice report.
Did you write it before or after your 5th 'gear' i meant....5th drink!

Jeffs

That guy must be stupid. I spent only 5 minutes with I-drive and immediately got the hang of it, and I am by no means a genius. On the other hand, sport package makes a huge difference though. I drove a friend's 530i with sport package prior to buying my 545 and drove another friend's 530 without sport package and the difference in handling was more than noticeable...

Hartge530

very interesting.......now, let me put in my 2 cents....

I've OWNED a 2003 E500, the current 2004 530i and test driven a 2005 GS300 and 430 for an extended period of time (roughly one and a half hours each). And let me tell you the REAL facts (using my best efforts to be objective)....

The REASON I sold the MB and bought the Bimmer is that the MB does in fact feel like a tank around the corners. When I first drove the Bimmer, I could have sworn that the car was significantly smaller and lighter than the MB - which by the way is not true. I'll admit that the MB is a lot quicker than my current car (obviously because of the huge discrepancy in displacement) but the throttle response is much superior in the Bimmer....The MB's throttle response was extremely slow at best....

Now, for the Lexus (is it Lexi in plural form?) Anyhoo, the GS300 felt severely underpowered due to its slow throttle response (or maybe it was the lack of noise) and the handling was boring at best. The review at the start of this thread seems to indicate that the GS is a better handler than the BMW and I have no idea what planet that person is from but a layperson (like myself) would never ever be able to make that sort of determination because the Lexus does not tell you what the car or the tires are doing during cornering. Like every other Lexus I've driven (FYI, my father owned the two previous generations of LS430s), the car felt completely detached from the road and anything else that was going on around it. It felt like an expensive Camry.....

GS430.......well, the car obviously has good power but not the kind of feel (torque) that is offered by the E500 or the 545i. It is just so smooth that it actually borders on becoming just a mere silent transportation from point A to point B. I will admit, however, that I did enjoy the interior of the GS - beautifully executed and a GREAT sound system...Nevertheless, NOT a car for any sort of car enthusiast............

Evenflow545

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

hmc

Hartge530,

The Lexus that person was talking about is 2006 newly designed one. I test drove that GS300 and it was indeed very impressive. I was very surprised at its handling. Never expected this kind of handling from a Lexus... Excellent car overall. Unfortunately it has much smaller rear head room and shoulder room.

I still ended with a E60 due to mainly space reasons, as well as BMW name though.