ipse dixit

Ok, this thread got me curious as to why BMW (and other German automakers like M cannot seem to the get the electronic gizmos and bugs out of the system before the car hits the market. Seems like it always take a year or two -- you know, the dreaded "don't buy a first year model" mantra.

Anyone care to venture a guess as to why that is? I can't imagine that BMW/MB simply are more lax in their quality control than their Japanese counterparts over at Toyota/Nissan, etc.

Maybe it's simply a perception problem and in reality the electronic niggles plague both Germans and Japanese cars alike, but it sure doesn't seem like it -- esp. not when Car&Driver leads off its review of the E90 by blasting the inability to start the car ...

Iceman

Well, the Japs only get it right, because they wait until we have solved the problems, and then they copy the system. They are never at the same level, allways behind.
If they would make the invention and BMW waits two years to bring the feature out, the problems would've been solved in Japan by this time and they would have had the trouble in JP...

Arcadia

I take half of Iceman said.

Roleez

Hmm... correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall Honda Motor Co. starting the variable valve timing craze with the first NSX in the early 90s. I don't seem to remember Valvetronic/VANOS preceding such technology for Honda to improve upon.

amigo525

Japs dont re-invent the wheel. They Just copy it from some where once they know the wheel works well.

krispykreme

Japanese is not behind european in technology.

However, they do tend to introduce new technology to world wide market one to two years after introduction in Japan (in some cases, it kept technology in Japan).

For example, Japanese has gotten quiet good and is very far ahead in direct injection gasoline engine.

Japanese car has navi far earlier than European did, but simply waited until both technology and market maturity before bring it over.

Take current lexus nagivation for example. In japan the same head unit has 3-D feature with accurate despiction of every single exit (it's like watching a picture of the exact exit). It also has build in Wifi access that you can receive and check e-mail. Not to mention additional feature such as TV tuner, A far more powerful Voice recognition...

European tends to sent everything out at once regardless if the technology is mature or not. It's nice to have new feature 1st, but on the other hand it would be nice to have new feature that is working from day one.

555

I agree with part of it. I do think the Japanese and others seem to have much higher Quality Control systems in place. I just think it's practical to have most of the bugs ironed out before going to market. BMW seems to not care and release things anyway. Then just have you wait before a fix is in place. Either that or their beta testing programs are just awful.

I just think that if BMW is going to "release anyway", then they should be quicker with delivering fixes.

Ask yourself... Would you run your own business that way?

krispykreme

Will microsoft seems to be doing very well by releasing patch after patch.

Merzbow

My car is again at the dealer for an unknown number of days because apparently replacing a simple weight sensor in the passenger seat is requiring herculean repeated reprogramming efforts. I'm certain they're gonna have to replace the TCU again if other's experiences are any guides. Unfortunately as much as I love this car if I had to do it again I would have bought a Dodge Magnum or something with much simpler electronics. Being a computer programmer, I should have listened to my instincts which were telling me to avoid something like this in a car exactly because of these issues. My Lexus with 68k+ miles on it was NEVER in the shop ONCE for unscheduled service.

ipse dixit

I don't want this thread to turn into a German v. Japan thing ... but it just irks me that BMW, MB and Audi can't seem to get their act together.

I've been lucky so far with my previous Bimmers, but I had an Audi A4 that was in the shop more than it was in my garage, during the first month of ownership. Nothing to complain about with the drivetrain ... it was all electronic related ... power windows acting up, ignition switch failure, etc. Finally, got it lemoned.

I mean, gimme a break, the Japanese are not copying how power windows operate, right?

Sure, sometimes the Japanese triumverate of Toyota/Nissan/Honda may wait for BMW to introduce a new tech (e.g. iDrive) and then market a new, improved version, but even without a competitor's head start to copy from, I don't think a company like BMW should get any leeway for bringing to market a tech that has more bugs in it than a roach motel ...