USA is a Banana Republic
06-03-2009, 08:47 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by sdg1871' post='899828' date='Jun 3 2009, 05:58 PM
And it's my belief that the crisis is a direct result of 8 years of incompetent leadership at the hands of President Bush and the Republicans who dominated Congress during his years.
What IS a crime is what Tim Geithner got and is getting away with.
The other issue at play in our politics is the FED; these crooked bastards have their hands in and on everything. I will always take a crooked oil man over a banker.
06-03-2009, 08:53 PM
#22
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06-03-2009, 09:07 PM
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I think the problem is not Bush, nor Obama, nor the Government or lack thereof. I see the problem in the simple fact that majority of people are taking this bait of bitching and moaning and arguing about who is to blame and who we should crucify next. While in fact, what we should all be doing is working our asses off to build things up - we all have jobs and we all take them seriously, but are we all performing to the best of our abilities? Not even close - we watch the news and bite this f*cking bait of talking sh!t about our country instead of building it. You know what our country is? It is you! You, and I and everyone else who is here. Corruption has no place in a society where people do their f*cking jobs right - look at the elections and think how many responsibilities were neglected over the past 3-4 terms...
Its not partisan, its not political, its not the economic crisis - the crisis is that of people who do not know what the f*ck they are doing! Blaming the crisis - even if you do find the right guys to blame - on anyone won't help. What we should be doing is digging ourselves out of this untimely grave, while all we're doing is digging ourselves deeper into it so far. I saw with my own eyes a superpower fall - I lived through Soviet Union's demise and Russia's "transition" - I wouldn't wish it upon anyone - friend or foe! Seeing tanks roll down your block - think how your kids would feel looking at something like that!
I wasn't even born in the U.S. and I have NEVER claimed unemployment or any other gov't assistance, for that matter - I am paving my own way. How do we even get to the point where GM took 20 billion (give or take) and still ended up declaring bancruptcy?! Are we doing our jobs, as citizens of this country?
Me personally? I am taking my Pursuit of Happiness seriously, while most others are taking it for granted - like somebody owes it to them! F*ck this thread, respectfully, and everyone instigating these debates anywhere - we should all be at f*cking work right now - not debating about this sh!t. But what we're doing is comparable to a house burning and we're arguing - for several years now, btw - who started the fire. We have to put out the flames before we can go on, while we still have a house to save, people!
Its not partisan, its not political, its not the economic crisis - the crisis is that of people who do not know what the f*ck they are doing! Blaming the crisis - even if you do find the right guys to blame - on anyone won't help. What we should be doing is digging ourselves out of this untimely grave, while all we're doing is digging ourselves deeper into it so far. I saw with my own eyes a superpower fall - I lived through Soviet Union's demise and Russia's "transition" - I wouldn't wish it upon anyone - friend or foe! Seeing tanks roll down your block - think how your kids would feel looking at something like that!
I wasn't even born in the U.S. and I have NEVER claimed unemployment or any other gov't assistance, for that matter - I am paving my own way. How do we even get to the point where GM took 20 billion (give or take) and still ended up declaring bancruptcy?! Are we doing our jobs, as citizens of this country?
Me personally? I am taking my Pursuit of Happiness seriously, while most others are taking it for granted - like somebody owes it to them! F*ck this thread, respectfully, and everyone instigating these debates anywhere - we should all be at f*cking work right now - not debating about this sh!t. But what we're doing is comparable to a house burning and we're arguing - for several years now, btw - who started the fire. We have to put out the flames before we can go on, while we still have a house to save, people!
06-03-2009, 09:28 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by v_therussian' post='900407' date='Jun 4 2009, 01:07 AM
- we should all be at f*cking work right now - not debating about this sh!t. But what we're doing is comparable to a house burning and we're arguing - for several years now, btw - who started the fire. We have to put out the flames before we can go on, while we still have a house to save, people!
It's not "shit", debates are healthy; they help people "see or grasp" a different point of view. The issues we have polarize people into different groups; i.e. religion, sexual orientation, income, education, etc., etc. and that is the way certain groups want us, it is all a game of control. If you do not work or were forced out, you in some cases, will have to rely on the government for your sustenance which in turn keeps you voting for that particular group or organization. Good points you made though.
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
Thomas Jefferson
06-03-2009, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by garylewa' post='900422' date='Jun 4 2009, 01:28 AM
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson
06-03-2009, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by sdg1871' post='899828' date='Jun 3 2009, 05:58 PM
Well, Brett, I knew we couldn't always agree. America is, indeed, in a period of crisis. And it's my belief that the crisis is a direct result of 8 years of incompetent leadership at the hands of President Bush and the Republicans who dominated Congress during his years.
When Bill Clinton was President, this country enjoyed peace, prosperity and a national surplus. My how far we have fallen.
I too am disturbed by the profligate levels of government spending going on now. But a lot of it has been necessary to stop this country's severe recession from sliding into another Great Depression. Saving the financial system from collapse was outrageously expensive. But the cost of letting it melt down would have been oh so much greater. The Great Depression -- filled with its bread lines and its unbelievable amount of homeless, hungry people, was a direct result of the government allowing the entire financial system to collapse. Business creates jobs. A job is the best social program there is. Businesses cannot create jobs if credit is unavailable. That's why Presidents Bush and Obama have had to bail out the financial system.
Obama is not a cancer. To the contrary, he is trying to undo the cancer that riddled our government at his arrival.
President Bush was not all bad. He kept this country safe in a time of great peril. I was in New York City on September 11th and know folks who perished, including one of my neighbors in my building. The fact that there was no further terrorist attacks during the remainder of Bush's Presidency was no accident. But on economic issues (I'll leave aside my views on Bush's social/culture issues), President Bush and the Congressional Republicans were an unmitigated disaster.
Now here's the bright side for all of the Obama haters. The Democrats now control the White House and both houses of Congress. So if things go south and they mess things up, they will only have themselves to blame. And if they do mess things up, the Republicans will do very well in the 2010 and 2012 elections.
I love political arguments -- as well as our E60's.
When Bill Clinton was President, this country enjoyed peace, prosperity and a national surplus. My how far we have fallen.
I too am disturbed by the profligate levels of government spending going on now. But a lot of it has been necessary to stop this country's severe recession from sliding into another Great Depression. Saving the financial system from collapse was outrageously expensive. But the cost of letting it melt down would have been oh so much greater. The Great Depression -- filled with its bread lines and its unbelievable amount of homeless, hungry people, was a direct result of the government allowing the entire financial system to collapse. Business creates jobs. A job is the best social program there is. Businesses cannot create jobs if credit is unavailable. That's why Presidents Bush and Obama have had to bail out the financial system.
Obama is not a cancer. To the contrary, he is trying to undo the cancer that riddled our government at his arrival.
President Bush was not all bad. He kept this country safe in a time of great peril. I was in New York City on September 11th and know folks who perished, including one of my neighbors in my building. The fact that there was no further terrorist attacks during the remainder of Bush's Presidency was no accident. But on economic issues (I'll leave aside my views on Bush's social/culture issues), President Bush and the Congressional Republicans were an unmitigated disaster.
Now here's the bright side for all of the Obama haters. The Democrats now control the White House and both houses of Congress. So if things go south and they mess things up, they will only have themselves to blame. And if they do mess things up, the Republicans will do very well in the 2010 and 2012 elections.
I love political arguments -- as well as our E60's.
My wife and I voted for Obama and are very happy and proud that we did.
06-03-2009, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by garylewa' post='900422' date='Jun 4 2009, 01:28 AM
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson
06-03-2009, 10:09 PM
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So let me be the SOB to bring Ayn Rand into this discussion. I know her works have been sort of ridiculed lately bc they contradict most of the current policies in their core. But I have to say, the woman did have some kind of point - I mean, I'm looking at the situation today and cannot help but think about Atlas Shrugged. I'm just curious whether she called it completely or just had some things right...
06-03-2009, 10:33 PM
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It is funny to read the posts in this thread and then look at where everyone is from.
The old Red states vs. Blue states is holding up.
We need checks and balances. A congress and presidency held by one party (democrat or republican) is not good.
The old Red states vs. Blue states is holding up.
We need checks and balances. A congress and presidency held by one party (democrat or republican) is not good.