JetBlack5OC

What they should do is build a new Gitmo on Alcatraz island in Pelosi land, since she is so up on closing Gitmo.

Also I love how the Eurpopean countries have been encouraging closing Gitmo for some time now. But when we ask if they will help to resettle former prisoners, they refuse. "oh, we don't want them here."

garylewa

So I guess I'm lucky for being born a white male, right? I hardily agree if someone is doing the same job as I they need to be compensated the same as well, regardless of race, gender or religious beliefs. I do know that doesn't happen all the time but thats not our fault.

Hard work is relative;
Physical - if you are digging a ditch chances are you are working your ass off to make a buck. But on the contrary there are a ton of business owners or managers that work 70+ hrs per week (not in manual labor) , are they also working their ass off? (Yes).
Mental - studying for a Fluid Mechanics, Termodynamics or MCAT exam
Emotional - death of a loved one or a pending divorce/split-up
Sexual - starring in a porno (I had to throw this one in here for a cheap attempt at humor )

You do make a sharp point though, societal issues do differ among people. I mean I do not have to worry about my next dinner or if the electric bill is paid, some people do, but am I supposed to feel guilty? Do I feel sympathy for them, sure, and our way of "fixing" these societal issues is through social programs, the ballot box, charities, etc. etc.
I will never apologize or feel guilty for what I have or what my station in life brings to my family. I work an off shift so I rarely see my wife or two young children (they are in school during the day and in bed when I get home). I would love to be at home during the week for dinner, a night out, etc., but I know I have responsibilities that need to be met.
Every handout (from the cost of college tuition to my home to everything in it) I have ever received was from my own hand, not from some politician.

swajames

In the context of this discussion, yes, to some degree you were. As was I, because we simply don't face the same challenges and the prejudices that may limit the ability of others to be as successful as we were able to be. And that's my point. Some will work just as hard as you and I but will never drive the same financial reward. Some of the posts here suggest that the only thing holding people back is a lack of desire to roll up their metaphorical sleeves and work a bit harder. All I'm saying is it really isn't that simple.

garylewa

You are absolutely correct; it's not that easy or that simple, if it were we would all be middle through upper class. Good posts and points of view man.

UUronL

There are two critical reads on the subject of luck/chance and the advantages that are built into life for certain people. They're fairly new books and written by very respected thinkers.


"Fooled by Randomness: The Hidden Role of Chance in Life and in the Markets" by Nassim Nicholas Taleb

"Outliers" by Malcom Gladwell

lightfytr

As I sit and read this post and others in the news relating to the state of our nation and economy, I think about those who are born into really bad situations. I am torn when I think deeply into the issue of helping the less fortunate. I know most here know this but I will say anyway, some people are born into situations which make it difficult/impossible to be successful.

In this country we spend so much money on things that never had priority 1-2 decades ago. Wall Street, which some here work on is/has been gambling with our economy for too long. I just feel in this country there are some things our less fortunate citizens should be able to have and that is education and healthcare. I see neither as a privilege. We have unfortunately turned healthcare into something which makes it difficult for many to afford.

Yes, we can blame lawyers/those who have taken advantage of it. Maybe the idea of people being able to sue companies for ridiculous amounts of money is another contributing factor.

Okay, I have touched a few different issues here. What I want to know is why cant we have a "better" system than Canada and Europe? We are the USA. We should have the best of all of it. Yes I believe that.

Everyone should be able to go to school (college/trade) and be taken care of medically.

With the whole economy and stimulus packages and blah, blah, blah. It is the middle/lower class that suffers the most. Sure someone making 250k a year can lose their job too and have tough times but damn when you are that close to the bottom it can be really tough.

I hold this country in the highest regard and believe we should be able to do more for our people than any other country...

solrac6262

a lot of people decide not to go, not because of their economic situation..
(poor)
by taken care of medically- is that giving free healthcare to all the people?

MiamiPhill

I asked this question a few posts back because I suspected that most, if not all who advocate (in part or in full) for the removal of social programs, do so from a visceral, heartfelt, but overly simplistic view.
I work hard.
I pay too much tax.
Taxes pay for social programs.
There are those that avail themselves of these programs.
Many of them don't work.
lets end social programs, that will make them work.
...and I will pay less tax & my life will be better.

If only it were that simple.......

I migrated to the U.S. in 1987 from Jamaica, a country I love, (as evidenced by my avatar) that many on this board have visited, some multiple times. But beyond the beaches, the music, the rum, the sun, and the hospitality, is crushing poverty, high unemployment, rampant nepotism, cronyism and corruption in government and business, you live or die by who you know, not what you know, and if you slip while trying to chisel out a life for yourself and your family, there is hardly a safety net. The few that exists are so poorly run and underfunded most people don't even bother.
The people are industrious and highly motivated, the educational standards (especially primary) are world class, but unfortunately, the need for basic survival keep many poor children out of school, and lead many adults to begging on the streets or lives of crime.
Jamaica now has one of the highest per capita murder rates.
I could go on, and on......
The point is, I have seen what's on the other side....and trust me, you do not want to go there.

America, my new home, is a far more socially just & peaceful country than the one I left behind, and contrary to what some may believe, I do not advocate for the unfettered paying out of welfare checks (or whatever they use now) without sharp requirements and responsibilities being placed on able bodied recipients. But like with everything in life, things are way more complicated than that, and aid recipients are not just the guys standing around on street corners in the middle of the day.

Most....yes, most of the people that live in the inner city and the trailer park work. They clean your offices, and your homes, they hold up signs so your children and mine can safely cross the street, they drive the big yellow bus, they drive the trains, the city bus & the taxi that take you to work. They are the voice that says "can I take your order", they sweep the streets, they pick up those big green garbage containers, and they crawl up into the stinking sewer system. Some of them do it for more that 80hrs a week, and have been for more than 50 yrs. They are loyal Americans, people of the finest quality, not unlike must on this board. They love their children and are trying their best raise the right. That some of them bounce back & forth on and off welfare is a reality not easily changed.
And oh by the way, many of their sons and daughters have lost their blood, body parts and lives on far flung battlefields. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AlyMZ-r1rs8
I have nothing against the rich and well accomplished, they give us something to aspire to, their businesses provide employment for millions, many are honest and hardworking, and they give back very generously to society. However, there are some whose actions are not always benevolent, they don't always do what is best for you or the country, but what is best for business. They get all perks, all the discounts, all the influence, all the deference and all the benefit of the doubt. They hide in their offices all day, rearranging the papers on their desks, take credit for your work then tell you that it's the guy on the scaffolding cleaning the window that is keeping you down.

Politicians, pundits and greedy corporate types who encourage you (for their own interest) to jettison your life rafts are hoping you never wake up to the simple fact that you, and the lesser, are on the same damn boat......you are just in the higher class. If anything goes wrong, if the iceberg is struck, they will take off in their helicopters or 'rescued' while you & yours drown with the steerage.

rogerj

All valid points and I agree with most of them. I think healthcare should be universal, hands down, and I completely agree with a social safety net. I however, completely disagree with our current system that provides an infinite amount of support with limited requirements for responsibility. A perfect example of this is...the single-mother in the news that is unemployed with 6 kids, and went through fertility treatments and gave birth to octuplets! Are you F$%#in' kiddin me! We will pay for her to raise those kids. Why do I have to contribute to this?

Not really sure what your point is? I don't think anyone hear is arguing that some jobs pay more than others. Nobody disagrees that minorities, women, etc have historically faced more obstacles than white males. The point is... that at this point in our history... there are far too many examples of success to use color, gender, etc as an excuse. Most of the people receiving public assistance from me and you are not working 40hrs/week... if working at all. If you are working 40 hrs/week and still unable to meet the basic needs of survival, I have no problem contributing to a program that will subsidize your basic needs. SWAJAMES, you and I both know that this is not the program that we are contributing to every paycheck.

This leads to a whole series of other questions and debates:

1. The wet foot/dry foot policy is bullshit! Either this is true for everybody or nobody!
2. After 911, I don't see how ANY form of illegal entry to the country is tolerated.
3. If you came here ILLEGALLY, why are you granted LEGAL, FREE healthcare?
4. If your parents were poor role models, why am I financially responsible for that?
5. If you choose to have 3 kids without a job, why am I financially responsible for that? ( I am 37 years old, been with my fiancee for 6 years, and the only reason I don't have a kid yet is because I didn't feel financially stable enough to support one)
6. If you are the CEO of Merill Lynch and receiving BILLIONS of our dollars because you can't keep your company alive, why the f$%# are you spending more than a million dollars to remodel your office!!!! (These muth$f#ch%s are way worse than the 5 above!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

There could be 100 more bullets but... I am having a drink... I am tired... and it's hard to type all this stuff!

solrac6262

Now we face another problem- is not just that our country can go bankrupt because of this bad desicions... stimuless package for painting some new offices and sending some money for tv converters??? how about our borders, yes the borders, most of the people is not aware of what is happening in Mexico, the internal war that the drug cartels are having, killing people everyday in 2008 in 11 months 4,000 people killed WTF ... but Mexico just lost the battle, now they are jumping to the U.S

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas

http://www.rightsidenews.com/200806261280/...in-phoenix.html

http://www.infowars.com/articles/world/mex...g_commandos.htm