Horrible BMW Crash in Florida!!
01-28-2008, 04:50 AM
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This incident is quite tragic indeed and I'm not sure what else to say other than to offer my sympathy to all the families that were affected by this event.
It does remind me of something I often think about with regard to something BMW could do to help prevent these incidents from occurring in the future. Obviously, this isn't BMW's fault and it's not BMW's responsibility to prevent these things from happening but there is something that can be done to add an additional "safety net" for situations where immaturity and/or lack of experience override common sense and skill. (If I think back to the days when I was 18, if my father had an M5 in the garage and went out of town with my mother, I doubt I'd have found an airport runway in the middle of the night to drive on but it's still likely I would have done something stupid with the car -- even though my dad told me not to drive it...)
The concept I'm speaking of? How about adding some sort of "parental controls" to the software of our cars. For example, my E30 M3 (1989) had a "code" feature that allowed me to preset a four-digit code when turning the car off. Once a code was set, the car could not be started unless it was entered again. I'm pretty sure that when BMW put this feature in those earlier cars, it was designed as an anti-theft device more than a parental control but clearly it could've been used for either.
Taking that process a bit further, BMW could setup different "permissions" in software that could allow different drivers (with different codes) to be used to "unlock" things like the ability to start the car or the ability to unleash the car's full potential, etc. For example, there could be a menu of options that could be turned on or off by the car's "administrator" that would allow a person to tailor the different settings to different "users."
Some examples of the settings could be:
The list is limited only by the imagination, I suppose...
Again, I'm not saying BMW is to blame here but in the age of the V-chip, etc., why not offer some control over these 500hp beasts?
It does remind me of something I often think about with regard to something BMW could do to help prevent these incidents from occurring in the future. Obviously, this isn't BMW's fault and it's not BMW's responsibility to prevent these things from happening but there is something that can be done to add an additional "safety net" for situations where immaturity and/or lack of experience override common sense and skill. (If I think back to the days when I was 18, if my father had an M5 in the garage and went out of town with my mother, I doubt I'd have found an airport runway in the middle of the night to drive on but it's still likely I would have done something stupid with the car -- even though my dad told me not to drive it...)
The concept I'm speaking of? How about adding some sort of "parental controls" to the software of our cars. For example, my E30 M3 (1989) had a "code" feature that allowed me to preset a four-digit code when turning the car off. Once a code was set, the car could not be started unless it was entered again. I'm pretty sure that when BMW put this feature in those earlier cars, it was designed as an anti-theft device more than a parental control but clearly it could've been used for either.
Taking that process a bit further, BMW could setup different "permissions" in software that could allow different drivers (with different codes) to be used to "unlock" things like the ability to start the car or the ability to unleash the car's full potential, etc. For example, there could be a menu of options that could be turned on or off by the car's "administrator" that would allow a person to tailor the different settings to different "users."
Some examples of the settings could be:
- Turn off the ability to disable DSC.
- Have the ability to adjust the speed limiter down to some lower maximum speed.
- Prevent an M-car from turning on the "M" button or, on SMG cars, not allowing certain drivelogic modes.
- Have the ability select a mode that reduces the car's horsepower and/or redline.
- Disable the transmission from starting in 1st gear.
- Etcetera, etc.
The list is limited only by the imagination, I suppose...
Again, I'm not saying BMW is to blame here but in the age of the V-chip, etc., why not offer some control over these 500hp beasts?
01-28-2008, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudy' post='523760' date='Jan 28 2008, 08:50 AM
This incident is quite tragic indeed and I'm not sure what else to say other than to offer my sympathy to all the families that were affected by this event.
It does remind me of something I often think about with regard to something BMW could do to help prevent these incidents from occurring in the future. Obviously, this isn't BMW's fault and it's not BMW's responsibility to prevent these things from happening but there is something that can be done to add an additional "safety net" for situations where immaturity and/or lack of experience override common sense and skill. (If I think back to the days when I was 18, if my father had an M5 in the garage and went out of town with my mother, I doubt I'd have found an airport runway in the middle of the night to drive on but it's still likely I would have done something stupid with the car -- even though my dad told me not to drive it...)
The concept I'm speaking of? How about adding some sort of "parental controls" to the software of our cars. For example, my E30 M3 (1989) had a "code" feature that allowed me to preset a four-digit code when turning the car off. Once a code was set, the car could not be started unless it was entered again. I'm pretty sure that when BMW put this feature in those earlier cars, it was designed as an anti-theft device more than a parental control but clearly it could've been used for either.
Taking that process a bit further, BMW could setup different "permissions" in software that could allow different drivers (with different codes) to be used to "unlock" things like the ability to start the car or the ability to unleash the car's full potential, etc. For example, there could be a menu of options that could be turned on or off by the car's "administrator" that would allow a person to tailor the different settings to different "users."
Some examples of the settings could be:
The list is limited only by the imagination, I suppose...
Again, I'm not saying BMW is to blame here but in the age of the V-chip, etc., why not offer some control over these 500hp beasts?
It does remind me of something I often think about with regard to something BMW could do to help prevent these incidents from occurring in the future. Obviously, this isn't BMW's fault and it's not BMW's responsibility to prevent these things from happening but there is something that can be done to add an additional "safety net" for situations where immaturity and/or lack of experience override common sense and skill. (If I think back to the days when I was 18, if my father had an M5 in the garage and went out of town with my mother, I doubt I'd have found an airport runway in the middle of the night to drive on but it's still likely I would have done something stupid with the car -- even though my dad told me not to drive it...)
The concept I'm speaking of? How about adding some sort of "parental controls" to the software of our cars. For example, my E30 M3 (1989) had a "code" feature that allowed me to preset a four-digit code when turning the car off. Once a code was set, the car could not be started unless it was entered again. I'm pretty sure that when BMW put this feature in those earlier cars, it was designed as an anti-theft device more than a parental control but clearly it could've been used for either.
Taking that process a bit further, BMW could setup different "permissions" in software that could allow different drivers (with different codes) to be used to "unlock" things like the ability to start the car or the ability to unleash the car's full potential, etc. For example, there could be a menu of options that could be turned on or off by the car's "administrator" that would allow a person to tailor the different settings to different "users."
Some examples of the settings could be:
- Turn off the ability to disable DSC.
- Have the ability to adjust the speed limiter down to some lower maximum speed.
- Prevent an M-car from turning on the "M" button or, on SMG cars, not allowing certain drivelogic modes.
- Have the ability select a mode that reduces the car's horsepower and/or redline.
- Disable the transmission from starting in 1st gear.
- Etcetera, etc.
The list is limited only by the imagination, I suppose...
Again, I'm not saying BMW is to blame here but in the age of the V-chip, etc., why not offer some control over these 500hp beasts?
Of course by the time he pulled up to me he was on his best behavior.....needless to say I was pissed & told him so.....and no, I didn't tip him. 
I like your idea & it likely could be done quite easily. 
01-28-2008, 05:38 AM
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MiamiPhill, you're right -- I forgot about the valet reasons for using such a system. I guess in Miami, valets are something you are forced to use much more than here in Pittsburgh.
Also, I just thought of another thing that they could do to make this system as high-tech as possible yet retain an ease-of-use that could even please iDrive detractors and other automotive journalists...
Instead of a code, why not have a biometric device like a fingerprint reader to "log in" to the car? They could have passwords for the admin (or others) to log in as a backup in case the reader fails, etc. They could even add a weight detection feature to the driver's seat so that the person swiping their finger would also have to match the stored relative weight so that someone couldn't log in and let their friend drive. I've played around with a laptop that uses a fingerprint reader for authentication and it works surprisingly well (even with Windows Vista!) The whole system could be optional so that people who choose not to lock down their cars wouldn't have to log in at all but for those of us who have children and/or valet park often, it could be activated.
Again, it's all about using off the shelf technology that could end up saving lives so I'm not asking for something that would be costly to implement or cause the car's MSRP to skyrocket. Just think of the publicity BMW could get from such a system. It could be added to all cars -- not just the faster ones. Something tells me that this idea will eventually show up on a Japanese car soon so BMW, as an innovator in safety and technology, should jump in right now.
Also, I just thought of another thing that they could do to make this system as high-tech as possible yet retain an ease-of-use that could even please iDrive detractors and other automotive journalists...
Instead of a code, why not have a biometric device like a fingerprint reader to "log in" to the car? They could have passwords for the admin (or others) to log in as a backup in case the reader fails, etc. They could even add a weight detection feature to the driver's seat so that the person swiping their finger would also have to match the stored relative weight so that someone couldn't log in and let their friend drive. I've played around with a laptop that uses a fingerprint reader for authentication and it works surprisingly well (even with Windows Vista!) The whole system could be optional so that people who choose not to lock down their cars wouldn't have to log in at all but for those of us who have children and/or valet park often, it could be activated.
Again, it's all about using off the shelf technology that could end up saving lives so I'm not asking for something that would be costly to implement or cause the car's MSRP to skyrocket. Just think of the publicity BMW could get from such a system. It could be added to all cars -- not just the faster ones. Something tells me that this idea will eventually show up on a Japanese car soon so BMW, as an innovator in safety and technology, should jump in right now.
01-28-2008, 05:45 AM
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Look what I just found, excerpts of young Joshua Ammirato's post on M5board.com just hours before he would die.......
Wonder if he was ever on here.
[i]Internet posts warned of car's power
Driver sought advice on going faster in hours before his death
BY RICK CUNDIFF
STAR-BANNER
OCALA - Less than 12 hours before he died, Joshua Ammirato was posting messages on an Internet message board seeking advice about how to drive his 2008 BMW M5 faster.
Ammirato, 18, logged onto M5board.com Thursday and Friday, asking other M5 drivers how to shift smoother in the 500-horsepower machine.
"The problem is when I'm going pedal to the metal pushing 140 and upshifting, there tends to be thud noise with the gear change," he wrote in one post.
Ammirato and four other young Marion County men were killed at about 3:45 a.m. Saturday, when the BMW M5 he was driving sailed off the end of the Greystone airstrip in Anthony and crashed into a tree.
Messages on the board devoted to M5 enthusiasts show Ammirato logged on shortly before 10 p.m. Thursday as "AmericanM5."
"Let me say I am beginner when it comes to high performance cars as I am only 18 so take it easy on me," he wrote.
Other members of the board expressed skepticism that Ammirato could have a car with a base price of $82,900 at such a young age, but warned him to take it easy until he gained more driving experience.
"Maybe your 2 years driving experience in your whole life is the problem," one member wrote.
"The fact that I never drove a manual car before may be true, but I've been driving for a lot longer than two years buddy," Ammirato responded.
Ammirato's M5, according to his posts, was equipped with a "sequential manual gearbox," which shifts like a traditional manual transmission, but without a clutch pedal.
Automobile Magazine has described the M5 as "a fearfully intimidating machine," with writer Michael Jordan adding "we've found that the SMG transmission .?.?. makes you feel like a victim of speed, not its master."
Ammirato told forum members he'd had the car for about three weeks. The vehicle is registered to his father, Santo Ammirato, according to the Florida Highway Patrol.
In his posts, Joshua Ammirato listed his other cars as a 2008 BMW 535i, a 2007 BMW 335i and a 2007 Cadillac Escalade. All have less horsepower than the M5.
News of Ammirato's death drew condolences from forum members on Saturday and Sunday.
"My prayers are with Josh and his family as well. Being that I am 21 and going on my second M5 I know the temptation is great and sometimes hard to handle at that age," one member wrote. "This is a very serious car with extraordinary performance, i have learned to respect it because there is a VERY, VERY thin line between losing it and keeping it on the road."
Another hoped others would learn from the tragedy.
"Truly a sad, sad event. May God be with the families and friends," the post read. "Hope that they have not died completely in vain - that many young drivers (and their parents) will take this to heart and learn from it."
Ammirato asked forum members on Friday about turning off the M5's electronic stability control for higher performance. A member wrote back with concern.
"With all [due] respect, gradually learn your car before you turn off [stability control]," he wrote. "With a little mistake combination of your mind and your right foot, you can be history. Be safe and enjoy.
"P.S. People on this board care about each other, especially when someone owns 500hp car at age of 18. Don't take it personal. We all watch each other[s] back."
Another member expressed concern about Ammirato's maturity.
"t's just disturbing to know, if you're for real, that an 18 year old who is asking these questions about a 500hp car is driving the same streets I am. I don't have anything against young guys driving nice cars, but an 18 year old behind the wheel of an M5 is what accidents are made of," he wrote.
Ammirato responded at 5:33 p.m. Friday that he was responsible.
"I completely understand where you are coming from assuming that I am irresponsible .?.?. that is definitely understandable. I do sometimes make bad decisions but I am young and I do drive safe and I will not endanger the lives of others."
A member from Australia again cautioned Ammirato to be careful.
"My only bit of advice matey - If you crash in a big way expect to be on the news," he wrote. "Enjoy and resist the temptation to drag others at the lights."
Ammirato responded, in his last post, at 9:02 p.m. Friday.
"Thanks guys, don't get me wrong I never said I didn't respect your wisdom," he wrote. "[T]hanks for the welcome and I am looking forward to getting to know you guys better .?.?. Josh."
Wonder if he was ever on here.
[i]Internet posts warned of car's power
Driver sought advice on going faster in hours before his death
BY RICK CUNDIFF
STAR-BANNER
OCALA - Less than 12 hours before he died, Joshua Ammirato was posting messages on an Internet message board seeking advice about how to drive his 2008 BMW M5 faster.
Ammirato, 18, logged onto M5board.com Thursday and Friday, asking other M5 drivers how to shift smoother in the 500-horsepower machine.
"The problem is when I'm going pedal to the metal pushing 140 and upshifting, there tends to be thud noise with the gear change," he wrote in one post.
Ammirato and four other young Marion County men were killed at about 3:45 a.m. Saturday, when the BMW M5 he was driving sailed off the end of the Greystone airstrip in Anthony and crashed into a tree.
Messages on the board devoted to M5 enthusiasts show Ammirato logged on shortly before 10 p.m. Thursday as "AmericanM5."
"Let me say I am beginner when it comes to high performance cars as I am only 18 so take it easy on me," he wrote.
Other members of the board expressed skepticism that Ammirato could have a car with a base price of $82,900 at such a young age, but warned him to take it easy until he gained more driving experience.
"Maybe your 2 years driving experience in your whole life is the problem," one member wrote.
"The fact that I never drove a manual car before may be true, but I've been driving for a lot longer than two years buddy," Ammirato responded.
Ammirato's M5, according to his posts, was equipped with a "sequential manual gearbox," which shifts like a traditional manual transmission, but without a clutch pedal.
Automobile Magazine has described the M5 as "a fearfully intimidating machine," with writer Michael Jordan adding "we've found that the SMG transmission .?.?. makes you feel like a victim of speed, not its master."
Ammirato told forum members he'd had the car for about three weeks. The vehicle is registered to his father, Santo Ammirato, according to the Florida Highway Patrol.
In his posts, Joshua Ammirato listed his other cars as a 2008 BMW 535i, a 2007 BMW 335i and a 2007 Cadillac Escalade. All have less horsepower than the M5.
News of Ammirato's death drew condolences from forum members on Saturday and Sunday.
"My prayers are with Josh and his family as well. Being that I am 21 and going on my second M5 I know the temptation is great and sometimes hard to handle at that age," one member wrote. "This is a very serious car with extraordinary performance, i have learned to respect it because there is a VERY, VERY thin line between losing it and keeping it on the road."
Another hoped others would learn from the tragedy.
"Truly a sad, sad event. May God be with the families and friends," the post read. "Hope that they have not died completely in vain - that many young drivers (and their parents) will take this to heart and learn from it."
Ammirato asked forum members on Friday about turning off the M5's electronic stability control for higher performance. A member wrote back with concern.
"With all [due] respect, gradually learn your car before you turn off [stability control]," he wrote. "With a little mistake combination of your mind and your right foot, you can be history. Be safe and enjoy.
"P.S. People on this board care about each other, especially when someone owns 500hp car at age of 18. Don't take it personal. We all watch each other[s] back."
Another member expressed concern about Ammirato's maturity.
"t's just disturbing to know, if you're for real, that an 18 year old who is asking these questions about a 500hp car is driving the same streets I am. I don't have anything against young guys driving nice cars, but an 18 year old behind the wheel of an M5 is what accidents are made of," he wrote.
Ammirato responded at 5:33 p.m. Friday that he was responsible.
"I completely understand where you are coming from assuming that I am irresponsible .?.?. that is definitely understandable. I do sometimes make bad decisions but I am young and I do drive safe and I will not endanger the lives of others."
A member from Australia again cautioned Ammirato to be careful.
"My only bit of advice matey - If you crash in a big way expect to be on the news," he wrote. "Enjoy and resist the temptation to drag others at the lights."
Ammirato responded, in his last post, at 9:02 p.m. Friday.
"Thanks guys, don't get me wrong I never said I didn't respect your wisdom," he wrote. "[T]hanks for the welcome and I am looking forward to getting to know you guys better .?.?. Josh."
01-28-2008, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudy' post='523784' date='Jan 28 2008, 09:38 AM
MiamiPhill, you're right -- I forgot about the valet reasons for using such a system. I guess in Miami, valets are something you are forced to use much more than here in Pittsburgh.
Also, I just thought of another thing that they could do to make this system as high-tech as possible yet retain an ease-of-use that could even please iDrive detractors and other automotive journalists...
Instead of a code, why not have a biometric device like a fingerprint reader to "log in" to the car? They could have passwords for the admin (or others) to log in as a backup in case the reader fails, etc. They could even add a weight detection feature to the driver's seat so that the person swiping their finger would also have to match the stored relative weight so that someone couldn't log in and let their friend drive. I've played around with a laptop that uses a fingerprint reader for authentication and it works surprisingly well (even with Windows Vista!) The whole system could be optional so that people who choose not to lock down their cars wouldn't have to log in at all but for those of us who have children and/or valet park often, it could be activated.
Again, it's all about using off the shelf technology that could end up saving lives so I'm not asking for something that would be costly to implement or cause the car's MSRP to skyrocket. Just think of the publicity BMW could get from such a system. It could be added to all cars -- not just the faster ones. Something tells me that this idea will eventually show up on a Japanese car soon so BMW, as an innovator in safety and technology, should jump in right now.
Also, I just thought of another thing that they could do to make this system as high-tech as possible yet retain an ease-of-use that could even please iDrive detractors and other automotive journalists...
Instead of a code, why not have a biometric device like a fingerprint reader to "log in" to the car? They could have passwords for the admin (or others) to log in as a backup in case the reader fails, etc. They could even add a weight detection feature to the driver's seat so that the person swiping their finger would also have to match the stored relative weight so that someone couldn't log in and let their friend drive. I've played around with a laptop that uses a fingerprint reader for authentication and it works surprisingly well (even with Windows Vista!) The whole system could be optional so that people who choose not to lock down their cars wouldn't have to log in at all but for those of us who have children and/or valet park often, it could be activated.
Again, it's all about using off the shelf technology that could end up saving lives so I'm not asking for something that would be costly to implement or cause the car's MSRP to skyrocket. Just think of the publicity BMW could get from such a system. It could be added to all cars -- not just the faster ones. Something tells me that this idea will eventually show up on a Japanese car soon so BMW, as an innovator in safety and technology, should jump in right now.
Phill
01-28-2008, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by EuroCarFan' post='523802' date='Jan 28 2008, 10:27 AM
I saw that thread by Josh on M5Board. It's eerie now reading through it again. T
What a terrible, terrible tragedy...
01-28-2008, 06:33 AM
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Yep. There are hundreds of "guests" reading that thread now and we had some crazy people signed on and posted some unwanted comments. Those posts have been deleted I believe.
01-28-2008, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudy' post='523805' date='Jan 28 2008, 10:29 AM
I read through some of those M5Board posts last night -- now, it looks like the rest of the world is trying to read them because the board is returning pages that say "database error"...
What a terrible, terrible tragedy...
What a terrible, terrible tragedy...
