Auto Bailout
12-12-2008, 07:09 AM
#1
Senior Members
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denva, CO Baby
Posts: 1,099
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2005 545i /w Sport pkg - SMG - Nav - Premium pkg - PDC - Ready to begin my modding! =)
Since we are all car lovers I was curious with all the volitility in today's market I was curious to know where you all stand on the current auto bail out. You dont have to get into a long speech or overly political, just curious if you were for or against the auto bail out.
I can honestly say I am somewhat against it, as for years the big three hung their heads on gas guzzling SUV's and Trucks instead of competing head to head with the japanese who where building better quality, better designed and more fuel effecient cars. Now the big three are paying for their mismanagement and everyone on is suffering. I am okay with the goverment loaning money them to protect the entire economy, but for us to loan the big 3 tax payers money and they be allowed to keep the same decision makers running the big 3, I am totally against that!
Finally aside from that I learned today that the head of the UAW said he thought the White House or Treasurary would step in and loan the automakers money without any need for a renegotiation the labor contract is absolutely appaulling!!!!
They would rather let the entire industry collapse instead of taking pay cuts to help the process. I know, I know who wants to take a pay cut right? Well see the chart below, I saw this today and it totally changed my opinion against the UAW and the problem. Unions while at one time were a good thing for the amercian worker in the industrial days, are now crippling the US economy. The airlines had to go the thru same reorganization to get unions to cooperate, so I really have no sympathy for the Auto industry.
Just a little friday rant, because as an average american this roller coaster market is not good for anybody. The chart below shows the average american worker's hourly rate vs the UAW, and the japanese auto companies at american plants. I ask you, what's wrong with this situation?
I can honestly say I am somewhat against it, as for years the big three hung their heads on gas guzzling SUV's and Trucks instead of competing head to head with the japanese who where building better quality, better designed and more fuel effecient cars. Now the big three are paying for their mismanagement and everyone on is suffering. I am okay with the goverment loaning money them to protect the entire economy, but for us to loan the big 3 tax payers money and they be allowed to keep the same decision makers running the big 3, I am totally against that!
Finally aside from that I learned today that the head of the UAW said he thought the White House or Treasurary would step in and loan the automakers money without any need for a renegotiation the labor contract is absolutely appaulling!!!!
They would rather let the entire industry collapse instead of taking pay cuts to help the process. I know, I know who wants to take a pay cut right? Well see the chart below, I saw this today and it totally changed my opinion against the UAW and the problem. Unions while at one time were a good thing for the amercian worker in the industrial days, are now crippling the US economy. The airlines had to go the thru same reorganization to get unions to cooperate, so I really have no sympathy for the Auto industry. Just a little friday rant, because as an average american this roller coaster market is not good for anybody. The chart below shows the average american worker's hourly rate vs the UAW, and the japanese auto companies at american plants. I ask you, what's wrong with this situation?
12-12-2008, 07:13 AM
#2
Contributors
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: .
Posts: 8,199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: .
Model Year: .
Auto Bailout Collapses on Wages
Senate Republicans refuse $14 billion in aid after UAW's Gettelfinger balks at fast wage cuts. GM, Chrysler hire bankruptcy advisors
Last-ditch efforts to forge an agreement to rescue the U.S. automakers fell apart late Thursday, Dec. 11, when union officials refused fast and deep cuts in worker pay. The collapse created the real possibility that General Motors (GM) and Chrysler will face bankruptcy in a matter of weeks, unless the Treasury Dept. acts to prevent it.
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflas...+temp_top+story
Senate Republicans refuse $14 billion in aid after UAW's Gettelfinger balks at fast wage cuts. GM, Chrysler hire bankruptcy advisors
Last-ditch efforts to forge an agreement to rescue the U.S. automakers fell apart late Thursday, Dec. 11, when union officials refused fast and deep cuts in worker pay. The collapse created the real possibility that General Motors (GM) and Chrysler will face bankruptcy in a matter of weeks, unless the Treasury Dept. acts to prevent it.
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflas...+temp_top+story
12-12-2008, 07:31 AM
#3
Contributors
The last thing we need; the government controlling manufacturing in the US. I was also opposed to the Wall Street (the real crooks) bailout.
The Big 3 took the stand for two weeks to explain their positions and what steps they would take to pay the "loan" back; I never saw one Wall Street exec or Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac official on the stand. Granted the Big 3 has made mistakes but having the government dictate to them what kinds of cars to make along with (probably more) government restrictions will not fix their dire situation. You do not see customers lining up to buy a 2009 Ford Fiesta. Customers will always buy what they want, dictated in some instances by economic limits (salary), family status (married, single) and/or type of job (construction, rancher, physician, etc). The Big 3 really needs to choose the option of re-organization (bankruptcy court)) to lower their huge debt ratio and yes, the unions need to make concessions also.
The Big 3 took the stand for two weeks to explain their positions and what steps they would take to pay the "loan" back; I never saw one Wall Street exec or Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac official on the stand. Granted the Big 3 has made mistakes but having the government dictate to them what kinds of cars to make along with (probably more) government restrictions will not fix their dire situation. You do not see customers lining up to buy a 2009 Ford Fiesta. Customers will always buy what they want, dictated in some instances by economic limits (salary), family status (married, single) and/or type of job (construction, rancher, physician, etc). The Big 3 really needs to choose the option of re-organization (bankruptcy court)) to lower their huge debt ratio and yes, the unions need to make concessions also.
12-12-2008, 07:48 AM
#4
Contributors
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicagoland (US)
Posts: 572
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2005 545i with Sport Pkg, Nav, HUD, Cold Weather Pkg, Rear Shades
I am against this bailout as well. The current deal asks the labor unions to take a paycut in 2010 (or was it 2011?). Some senators (mostly Republicans) are asking that these cuts be accelerated to this year to save the companies, but the UAW is refusing. IMO, UAW is stalling till the new administration comes in, and then they won't have to take a pay cut.
On another note, here's the bill that was introduced in Congress, House of Repr. Take a look at page 35, section c. This is what our leaders in Congress do. Insert language and provisions that are unrelated to a bill. I'd like to find out which Congressman introduced this languange in the bill, and make his name public.
Wait, didn't P-E Obama said he would do that??
auto_bailout_bill.pdf
On another note, here's the bill that was introduced in Congress, House of Repr. Take a look at page 35, section c. This is what our leaders in Congress do. Insert language and provisions that are unrelated to a bill. I'd like to find out which Congressman introduced this languange in the bill, and make his name public.
Wait, didn't P-E Obama said he would do that??auto_bailout_bill.pdf
12-12-2008, 07:56 AM
#5
Senior Members
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denva, CO Baby
Posts: 1,099
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2005 545i /w Sport pkg - SMG - Nav - Premium pkg - PDC - Ready to begin my modding! =)
Originally Posted by JStraw' post='743892' date='Dec 12 2008, 09:48 AM
I am against this bailout as well. The current deal asks the labor unions to take a paycut in 2010 (or was it 2011?). Some senators (mostly Republicans) are asking that these cuts be accelerated to this year to save the companies, but the UAW is refusing. IMO, UAW is stalling till the new administration comes in, and then they won't have to take a pay cut.
On another note, here's the bill that was introduced in Congress, House of Repr. Take a look at page 35, section c. This is what our leaders in Congress do. Insert language and provisions that are unrelated to a bill. I'd like to find out which Congressman introduced this languange in the bill, and make his name public. Wait, didn't P-E Obama said he would do that??
Attachment 67033
On another note, here's the bill that was introduced in Congress, House of Repr. Take a look at page 35, section c. This is what our leaders in Congress do. Insert language and provisions that are unrelated to a bill. I'd like to find out which Congressman introduced this languange in the bill, and make his name public.
Wait, didn't P-E Obama said he would do that??Attachment 67033
And we wonder why the economy is in such disarray!!!
12-12-2008, 10:38 AM
#6
Contributors
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Posts: 1,056
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
My Ride: G30 530i M-sport
Model Year: 2018
You hit the nail on the head with your opening post, IceyTys. Management, the unions and the workers need to pull together to get some product that people actually want to buy and drive, and do it on a budget. And if they can't they should fold.
12-12-2008, 11:02 AM
#7
Contributors
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Central Coast of Cali
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: '08 535i Titanium Silver, Grey Dakota Comfort Seats-Premium Pkg, Nav, ipod, PDC, Steptronic
Proud BMW owner since 9-1-07
I agree that not one Wall Street exec or financial bailout had to answer to anyone for the billions shoveled their way. Neither were sufficient oversights placed on the funds given to them. Now that the money might actually trickle down to the working class, well well we better have some accountability.
I think in the end we need to help the auto industry in this country. We did it before with Chrysler and let's face it they made real changes in how they did business. We just can't afford to let all the workers at the suppliers and all those industries go down the drain. We will loose some of those industries offshore forever. Do they and will they have to change, of course both the market and the new owners the US taxpayers will demand it.
The entire Auto industry bailout in the end will probably not add up to the amount swindled by those in the Financial sector bailout.
I think in the end we need to help the auto industry in this country. We did it before with Chrysler and let's face it they made real changes in how they did business. We just can't afford to let all the workers at the suppliers and all those industries go down the drain. We will loose some of those industries offshore forever. Do they and will they have to change, of course both the market and the new owners the US taxpayers will demand it.
The entire Auto industry bailout in the end will probably not add up to the amount swindled by those in the Financial sector bailout.
12-12-2008, 01:41 PM
#8
Members
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Rochester N.Y.
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I work 4 Delphi in research and development as a model maker. They filed for bankruptcy a while ago and have yet to emerge. They have already slashed wadges and cut everything...accept for us in the 
skilled trades
I think gm needs to take a page out of our book..janitors making $27 a hour??...it was rediculous!!
skilled trades I think gm needs to take a page out of our book..janitors making $27 a hour??...it was rediculous!!
12-12-2008, 01:53 PM
#9
Contributors
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Nashville
Posts: 739
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Ride: 2007 530i Alpine White with Navi and Premium PackageIn progress: OEM Mtech kit, H&R Sport Springs, and 19
It really is a tough one. What makes it a little more tolerable is the fact it is a loan. What shocked me during the elections is that neither took opposing position on the corp bailout. The unions are good but it is a double edged sword. In hard times everyone has to sacrifice, that means from the top down. I agree that if it takes paycuts around the board for a company to survive than the union shouldnt act as if the boat isnt sinking. I would much prefer Uncle Sam to say her Soldier I gotta pay you a little less and we all we cut back to get through tough times. But reality also shows that a pay cut to a person in the 6 figures does not have the same impact on someone just getting by.
God bless the country and our economy...
BTW let me here it for $1.70 premium unleaded!!!
God bless the country and our economy...
BTW let me here it for $1.70 premium unleaded!!!
