JeffNNJ

Will someone please remind me the last time BMW had a model change, ANY MODEL CHANGE that people did not initially hate? I think that maybe the E65 to the F01 but nothing else comes to mind. People who owned E21s hated the E30 and people who owned E30s hated the E36. C'mon people, it's a BMW enthusiast's mantra to hate all new models that replace their beloved predecessors. So come on, tell me one model change that all of us actually embraced right off the bat. Stop whining and realize that in 7 years we'll all be here complaining about how great the F10 was and how ugly and bloated the 2020 model is.

v_therussian

As much as it pains me to agree with you, I can't say I haven't thought of this myself, Jeff. One thing I just cannot forgive the F10 is the front bumper, but hopefully some mods will be out soon to dress it up.

I'm kinda glad that it is out of my reach financially right now - I still feel I might regret it, if I do get it. I am however glad I didn't trade to the 335 last year - still lovin' my 530Xi

PS I just thought of something: aside from that one review (I think it was Motor Trend) that said the F10 was too soft, I don't think there are ANY negative reviews. Biggest plus - ALL owners who report on their F10 have nothing but good things to say - and that says a LOT to me. As for that MT review, I think whoever drove is either used to track-like stiff ride or didn't know how to switch the damping settings on the car. Well, the weight is the only negative thing.

pjinca

I actually don't hate the F10, I like it, even more so since I saw it in person at the dealer. When I have some time I will go drive one. The only thing that worries me is the handling of the F10, the reviews haven't been that enthusiastic about it.
Overall the F10 looks clearly like an attempt at an evolutionary design from the E39, not the E60.

TAmes

Interesting observation. I think the E28 to the E34 was a pretty uncontroversial model change, if only because the E28 was such a timid attempt at updating the E12.

For years I thought the E39 was a design travesty relative to the E34, but I now consider it one of the best looking modern BMWs. And the same holds true for the E60, which I thought looked terrible until several years into its production cycle.

The F10 doesn't offend me at all with its design sensibility; I agree with those who have pointed out that its upright grill is reminiscent of the E39. I actually think it looks pretty good with the M-Tech spoiler.

kscarrol

Jeff,

if you re-read the posts, very few are saying they "hate" the F10. Just about everyone hated the E60 though I was one of the early buyers and thought it was a great looking car. I really think the F10 commentary is different than what we saw with the E60. Commenting on the increased weight and its impact on the cars handling is a not "hating", it is a real issue. Some of us are concerned about it, others are not. That is why they make markets! I think the F10 will out sell the E60, it is a great car. But as many of us stated, there has been a shift in BMW's focus to luxury vs sport. The F10 is still more sporty than most other cars but it is a real shift and that is all we are concerned about...

swajames

+1 Ken. It's not a question of hate, the majority of the posts are making valid points and the majority of the questions are perfectly legitimate. Most of them speak to the philosphical direction BMW is choosing to take - building a heavier car with less driver feedback isn't something we expected in the F10. Mind you, most of us never expected to see 5500lb M vehicles with automatic transmissions, all wheel drive and turbo chargers. The F10 to me is a symptom, the cause is BMW choosing to take a different direction than it has taken in the past. As I posted in another thread, it should not be lost on us that BMW no longer focuses on the "ultimate driving machine" message in its marketing but chooses instead to talk about "Joy". That to me is a subtle but highly significant distinction. Members here aren't a bunch of crackpots who atavisticially whine every seven years when the new models are released, the members here are enthusiasts who have been loyal to the brand because it made cars that spoke to enthusiasts. The question, and it is a legitimate one, is the extent to which that remains true.

swajames

Take a look at Dan Neil's LA Times article on the 535, and there's quite a lot of noise out there from owners who report similar findings. One of the members here is posting from his ED trip on F10post and his feedback is much the same.

m630

there have been many...e30 to e36, great! e24 to e63, super! e36 to e46, nirvana!


the e46 is/was an instant classic the first time I saw it and I dont think anyone would disagree. Perfect execution of the design/performace balance. BMW got it right. Same with the e63, imho, it was immediately something that anyone could love and no one looked back and hated on it for what it replaced.

Not so with the F10, its peculiar at best, fugly at worst.

Im not sure who you are speaking of, but no BMW enthusiast I know hates on new models if they are done proper. It is only when they break the rules that BMW itself set that one begins to hate or rather question their direction.

I think everyone on this board wants to love the F10, but BMW f* it up so bad that many now question it, and many will choose to look elsewhere. No hating in that, just facts of life, when you put out a poor product that breaks your own standards, which this 5 series most certainly does, there are reprocussions of those decisions, and we read about them here each day as many members turn away from the Roundel. Its not the customers fault that BMW isnt offering the products we want to buy, its become an arrogance in the company deciding to shift direction away from what has made it great in the past, ie driving dynamics. Overweight-overpowered cars are not what BMW clients wanted, and now BMW has to live with the poor decisions its management made in selling itself on this fresh generation of vehicles. They will not be as popular and force bmw to make radical changes to its future offerings if it is to survive.

I will say though that I hate the X wannabe \\Ms period. And nothing anyone tells me would change that point of view, its a complete disaster and utter wast of valuable R&D that could have been spent on weight reduction technologies for the true Ms( if there is such a thing anymore)

Petes550i

Styling is always subjective but I don't understand what you mean by a "poor product."
Have you even driven a F10? Say what you will about the design, but the F10 is not a poor product by ANY stretch of the imagination.
I also don't understand whay you mean by BMW not offering cars that people want to buy. That's BS! BMW's models consistently rank at the top or near the top in luxury car sales every month....even during this recession! This forum represents just a tiny, tiny fraction of all BMW drivers out there. The vast majority of the public interested in BMW's don't care about the stuff people nitpick around here and they are the ones that keep BMW where they are (and the ones BMW listens to).

ObD

Don't let the bastards get ya down. I'd be bitter too if I refused to acknowledge things change. Most people dislike change. It's to their detriment. There is nothing wrong with the F10. Lighten up Francis's.