So who would consider the new Allroad as a replacement?
02-10-2012, 06:40 PM
#11
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The E55/E63 estate is really cool: very powerful, large cargo and occupant space, even has more ground clearance when desired due to the air suspension lift feature... however, for me, there's no way a RWD is going to work.
It's not that you can't make a RWD track well in snow and ice, but you have to rely more on tire choice and currently I'm used to not needing studs or even super soft winter tires. With the great AWD systems on the Audi S4 or the BMW E61, I can use a high speed tire like the Pirelli Sottozer and get through a very wide range of temps and conditions without much compromise.
It's not that you can't make a RWD track well in snow and ice, but you have to rely more on tire choice and currently I'm used to not needing studs or even super soft winter tires. With the great AWD systems on the Audi S4 or the BMW E61, I can use a high speed tire like the Pirelli Sottozer and get through a very wide range of temps and conditions without much compromise.
02-15-2012, 01:09 AM
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When you say Allroad, you're talking about the A4 version? They were rarer than rocking house shit over here, but the A6 Allroad was/is pretty popular and the new one has just been announced. Are you not getting that over there? One of those would be nice - especially with the new range of twin-turbo diesels.
NEW BI-TURBO TDI PACKS EVEN MORE PUNCH INTO AUDI A6 AND A7 SPORTBACK
The most potent Audi V6 TDI ever to enter production powers executive class Audi models to 62mph in a fraction over five seconds and returns up to 44.1mpg
Knockout punch in a velvet glove comes courtesy of a formidable new 313PS Audi Biturbo TDI engine, which is now available for A6 Saloon and Avant and A7 Sportback models. The new twin-turbo V6 is notable not only for being the most powerful six-cylinder diesel engine ever offered by the Vorsprung durch Technik brand, but also the sweetest-sounding. Available now in A6 models priced from £43,810 OTR, and from £51,645 OTR in the A7 Sportback, it combines trademark Audi TDI refinement with an exhaust-mounted sound actuator that enables it to deliver its mighty 650Nm output to the tune of a distinctly sporting soundtrack.
Slotting in above the single-turbo 204PS and 245PS versions of the 3.0 TDI that already feature in the A6 and A7 Sportback ranges, the latest V6 has a two-stage turbocharger group that delivers a maximum boost pressure of up to 3.2 bar, helping the A6 3.0 BiTDI quattro Saloon to lunge at the horizon and pass the 62mph marker in as little as 5.1 seconds, and the A6 Avant and A7 Sportback to do the same in just 5.3 seconds. An electronically limited top speed of 155mph is common to all versions.
Like the existing TDI engines, the new star performer is backed up by technologies from the Audi modular efficiency platform, including start-stop and recuperation systems and the innovative thermal management system that quickly brings the coolant and oil up to their operating temperatures. With their help, combined economy in A6 and A7 Sportback models is on an equal footing at 44.1mpg ? an impressive figure given the high outputs and low acceleration times involved.
Sound actuator
Thanks to an innovative actuator in the auxiliary channel of the exhaust system, the BiTDI A6 and A7 Sportback models don?t sound like they should be capable of such level-headed economy figures. The actuator system essentially consists of a speaker which imposes a defined oscillation pattern on the exhaust flow and transforms the typical TDI exhaust note into a more sonorous roar that is closer to the output of a high-performance petrol engine.
Without exception, power is transmitted from the BiTDI engine via an eight-speed tiptronic transmission to the latest generation quattro all-wheel-drive system, which features a self-locking centre differential and torque vectoring for optimum traction and stability. A sport differential which distributes power in continuously variable proportions between the rear wheels is available from the options list to sharpen and quicken response even further.
The mighty new BiTDI engine is available in conjunction with SE and S line specification in the A6 Saloon, A6 Avant and A7 Sportback. The forthcoming A6 allroad quattro, due to open for order in February, will also offer this exceptional unit.
Stand-out features common to all these models include satellite navigation linked to a 6.5-inch retractable colour monitor, Milano leather upholstery, the Audi drive select adaptive dynamics system controlling throttle response, transmission shift points and steering feel, the Audi parking system plus, light and rain sensors, cruise control and keyless go push-button engine ignition.
The most potent Audi V6 TDI ever to enter production powers executive class Audi models to 62mph in a fraction over five seconds and returns up to 44.1mpg
Knockout punch in a velvet glove comes courtesy of a formidable new 313PS Audi Biturbo TDI engine, which is now available for A6 Saloon and Avant and A7 Sportback models. The new twin-turbo V6 is notable not only for being the most powerful six-cylinder diesel engine ever offered by the Vorsprung durch Technik brand, but also the sweetest-sounding. Available now in A6 models priced from £43,810 OTR, and from £51,645 OTR in the A7 Sportback, it combines trademark Audi TDI refinement with an exhaust-mounted sound actuator that enables it to deliver its mighty 650Nm output to the tune of a distinctly sporting soundtrack.
Slotting in above the single-turbo 204PS and 245PS versions of the 3.0 TDI that already feature in the A6 and A7 Sportback ranges, the latest V6 has a two-stage turbocharger group that delivers a maximum boost pressure of up to 3.2 bar, helping the A6 3.0 BiTDI quattro Saloon to lunge at the horizon and pass the 62mph marker in as little as 5.1 seconds, and the A6 Avant and A7 Sportback to do the same in just 5.3 seconds. An electronically limited top speed of 155mph is common to all versions.
Like the existing TDI engines, the new star performer is backed up by technologies from the Audi modular efficiency platform, including start-stop and recuperation systems and the innovative thermal management system that quickly brings the coolant and oil up to their operating temperatures. With their help, combined economy in A6 and A7 Sportback models is on an equal footing at 44.1mpg ? an impressive figure given the high outputs and low acceleration times involved.
Sound actuator
Thanks to an innovative actuator in the auxiliary channel of the exhaust system, the BiTDI A6 and A7 Sportback models don?t sound like they should be capable of such level-headed economy figures. The actuator system essentially consists of a speaker which imposes a defined oscillation pattern on the exhaust flow and transforms the typical TDI exhaust note into a more sonorous roar that is closer to the output of a high-performance petrol engine.
Without exception, power is transmitted from the BiTDI engine via an eight-speed tiptronic transmission to the latest generation quattro all-wheel-drive system, which features a self-locking centre differential and torque vectoring for optimum traction and stability. A sport differential which distributes power in continuously variable proportions between the rear wheels is available from the options list to sharpen and quicken response even further.
The mighty new BiTDI engine is available in conjunction with SE and S line specification in the A6 Saloon, A6 Avant and A7 Sportback. The forthcoming A6 allroad quattro, due to open for order in February, will also offer this exceptional unit.
Stand-out features common to all these models include satellite navigation linked to a 6.5-inch retractable colour monitor, Milano leather upholstery, the Audi drive select adaptive dynamics system controlling throttle response, transmission shift points and steering feel, the Audi parking system plus, light and rain sensors, cruise control and keyless go push-button engine ignition.
02-15-2012, 01:11 AM
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Sounds pretty nice too:
02-15-2012, 01:33 AM
#14
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North America is only getting the A4 version and in basic engine, no diesels, doubtful it will even be a manual. Being such a small segment, there will be one model with some trim choices and to top it off, these new cars don't have a real spare tire either - idiotic considering it's billed as a travel vehicle.
02-15-2012, 01:52 AM
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Seems odd that they've taken that decision - I'd have thought that the A6 would be better suited to America - but then I don't work in their marketing dept.
Interestingly, I read on Wiki yesterday that there was a special edition of 20 E34 BMW M5 Tourings (at a time when BMW didn't make M5 Tourings) because a group of Italian dealers ordered 20. I wonder how any of the manufacturers would respond to a group order - whether they'd do it.
Interestingly, I read on Wiki yesterday that there was a special edition of 20 E34 BMW M5 Tourings (at a time when BMW didn't make M5 Tourings) because a group of Italian dealers ordered 20. I wonder how any of the manufacturers would respond to a group order - whether they'd do it.
Additionally, 20 M5 Touring models were assembled for distribution in Italy. These were finished in either Sterling Silver over Marine Blue leather, or British Racing Green over Tobacco leather. All were made in 1995. It is debated as to whether or not these cars constitute a true special edition as they were ordered directly by a group of Italian BMW dealers.
02-15-2012, 05:09 AM
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Seems odd that they've taken that decision - I'd have thought that the A6 would be better suited to America - but then I don't work in their marketing dept.
Interestingly, I read on Wiki yesterday that there was a special edition of 20 E34 BMW M5 Tourings (at a time when BMW didn't make M5 Tourings) because a group of Italian dealers ordered 20. I wonder how any of the manufacturers would respond to a group order - whether they'd do it.
Interestingly, I read on Wiki yesterday that there was a special edition of 20 E34 BMW M5 Tourings (at a time when BMW didn't make M5 Tourings) because a group of Italian dealers ordered 20. I wonder how any of the manufacturers would respond to a group order - whether they'd do it.
02-22-2012, 02:23 PM
#17
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This is for those of us in North America, who don't get the F generation 5 wagon... :-(
Other than the new E wagon, there are no mid sized Euro wagons... I can't recall how much longer the A4 Avant (which in its current form is too small vs. the 5 wagon) will be coming here, which I suppose is the only other option.
Is the new Allroad the same as the current gen. A4 Avant though, just jacked up? Or a new generation?
With some colours, you can get the plastic bits painted even to match the body colour! Notwithstanding the extra few inches of ground clearance, and how that might affect handling, at least you can get it with Drive Select and set your suspension settings to Sport. Space in the trunk would be smaller, but maybe that's not a big deal, and I'll throw up a roof box instead for the big trips.
Other than the new E wagon, there are no mid sized Euro wagons... I can't recall how much longer the A4 Avant (which in its current form is too small vs. the 5 wagon) will be coming here, which I suppose is the only other option.
Is the new Allroad the same as the current gen. A4 Avant though, just jacked up? Or a new generation?
With some colours, you can get the plastic bits painted even to match the body colour! Notwithstanding the extra few inches of ground clearance, and how that might affect handling, at least you can get it with Drive Select and set your suspension settings to Sport. Space in the trunk would be smaller, but maybe that's not a big deal, and I'll throw up a roof box instead for the big trips.
So the B8 grew in length by about 6" and it's not just larger bumpers, it's usable interior space, specifically in the 2nd row occupancy area but a tiny bit more in the cargo area, I think I recall a tiny bit more in the 1st row too but you wouldn't really notice it. I think the width grew a tiny bit as well, interior width, but nothing like the space we enjoy in the e61.
Having been used to my b7 s4 with it's small "afterthought" of an armrest which is in the way every time you pull the parking brake ( eventually you just drive the car and get over it), I thought it was pretty cool to get into the very nicely organized and spacious yet snug e61. The center armrest is of particular enjoyment for me when traveling with someone else but even solo. It's wide enough for two people to use simultaneously, which is more romantic on a date but also safer because there is no split second lost getting past another arm if you need to grab the brake. Additionally, the forward sliding bit of armrest allowing your elbow to just relax while holding the steering wheel is really thoughtful
(The e61 ergonomics are at the opposite end of the design spectrum from the goofy audi armrest - the same ridiculous armrest is found in what were $90,000 cars like the RS6, RS4!)
Back to the b8 allroad. Yes, I think it is the b8/current, not a totally redesigned b9 platform. Anyway, it doesn't look any different except for body cladding and suspension.
I think it depends on what you want and/or need. The b8 avant is not tiny, nor is is really big. It's 2nd row seems big "enough" for adults, etc. It won't have a full size spare (something people keep forgetting in their "travel" car)
The spare leads me to this....with the limited new wagons available, will you/we stick with the wagon design???????
If I cannot easily place a full size spare in/on/under a vehicle, it won't be used for big trips. Have I had a flat recently? No. Last flat I had myself while driving that required stopping immediately, was 2007 in our e91. This "event" cost about $2000.... the e91 had run flat tires, great, the system showed me a red warning of air loss even though you couldn't even feel it at 120kph (we were on a gigantic road trip and just left the Ottawa area headed toward Thunder Bay, fully loaded with three bikes, cargo pod, and barely enough room left inside for a cat.) These super cool looking 19" wheels had super performing Bridgestone re050 tires. The rear ruptured (harder to find, costs more) possibly due to load?
The nice person in sky (bmw assist) found us a flatbed driver who was there within an hour, who dropped us a the Ottawa bmw dealer...on a friday night...our luck was in the dealer sales manager happening to be driving by (they were closed this weekend due to the mid summer long weekend "holiday" time?). He stopped to at least get our car inside the service bay which was important - if you can imagine, we couldn't exactly leave 3 bikes on top of the car and seeing it full of stuff was a great break-in target. By Monday we had a special ordered tire on our car, it cost $1100 Canadian and the hotel added up too. Not to mention the event blowing almost 72 hours of our trip, nearly 30%. This might have been ok if we'd been stuck in Victoria or old Quebec City.
Prior to that I think was 2003 or so but it was on an old rover and of course the spare was right there on the back door and I changed it myself quicker than it would take to be on hold with AAA. Oops, no, last spring I had a fully flat tire after a job 30 miles out of town but it was an suv with full size spare and I had on board air too (a 2004 land rover discovery)
As for the people like AAA or roadside assist who will come change your tire, not if you don't have one to change to.... what can they do if you have a sidewall puncture ? Well, they can try to not screw up your car when it's getting towed and they can point you to your hotel of choice in a town which is not the place you took time off to visit, right?
Enough spare tire ranting.
Unless there is enough space in a wagon for a spare, I'll be moving over to suv's again or backwards to older wagons. It's worth noting that the 2001-2005 Allroad based on the A6 doesn't have a full size spare either. It has an inflatable temp and my current e61 has an inflated small temp wheel but I carry the full size standing upright against the left side cargo area strapped in. I could put it inside the cargo box but that's a lot of weight up higher. I may one day have a body shop rebuild the space under the cargo floor to allow it in there ....
About the suv idea vs wagons. Well, diesel suvs get BETTER fuel economy or equal (Audi q7, bmw x5 35d, even the behemoth Mercedes GL sip along at about 24-27 mpg. I recall in our testing last fall the bmw was the best mpg with the audi not being as good as expected but I've heard of owners doing close to 29mpg on long trips in the q7 so I don't know, maybe new vs broken-in engines but we compared all new or nearly new) The bmw is however, essentially a tall "car" as is the q7. I'm used to my land rovers, or the previous 2006 Land Cruiser which had a solid rear axle and the rovers are designed still more like a truck/suv whereas these soft suvs above are more car like, thus why they handle well for the size and get better mpg.
The SAAB cars were cool but did become less "euro" after GM got hold of them. I suppose a plus is that you could find a mechanic in almost any town to work on the gm sourced engine bay. The 93 aero turbo x (turbo v6 wagon) we drove was actually really fun, but no match for the audi s4.
I don't mind a softer suv so that I can gain fuel economy, such as in the bmw x5d, however it has no better ground clearance than a volvo xc70 or subaru outback yet costs 2x the subaru and 50% over the volvo. (same trim levels, year, etc). I know it's way more comfortable though and now I'm addicted to my e61 HUD and 20 way comfort sport seats!!! Most likely, by the time I give up this e61, there will be designs we hadn't thought of yet.
02-22-2012, 11:33 PM
#18
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about that Audi Allroad idea....how about I just make myself an S4/Allroad by adding these to my S4 Avant:
http://shop.airliftcompany.com/dyn_search_vehicle?k=0
Come to think of it, why not turn my e61 into a trail version
Seems cheaper than buying a new car anyway.
http://shop.airliftcompany.com/dyn_search_vehicle?k=0
Come to think of it, why not turn my e61 into a trail version
Seems cheaper than buying a new car anyway.
02-23-2012, 05:20 PM
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LOL! Not everyone does 3,000 mile Seattle <---> Raleigh trips a few times a year! Our road trips currently haven't been more than a few hundred miles each way, although this coming summer, we are considering going down to Disneyland, which would be 1300 miles each way... A full size spare, while totally handy, has not been a deal breaker for me therefore. Having a mini spare, plus RFT's, should be good enough I'm hoping...
Yeah, I wasn't sure if the current A4 Avant and the new A4 Allroad were the same platform, which I've since understood they are, so its trunk space with rear seats up is pretty small, and most likely rule it out again for me a few years down the road, especially since we have a dog too. The new F series 3 wagon I'm guessing will be similar, but having said that, the new F 3 series did grow 4 inches in length over the E90 series, so maybe it won't be too too bad...
The only high HP newish Euro wagon left in a few years (based on today's choices) would be a used 2011 A6 Avant, the current generation E wagon and the XC70 (which I'll never consider given my history with it before this car). Outback is another contender I suppose, but a much lower level of finishing (and comfort I'd presume), and its ride quality I wonder if it's too floaty?
I just noticed there's a 2012 Acura TSX wagon, with similar dimensions to our car... That's new! Engine seems really wimpy on it though and alas, I don't think it's AWD...
Ride quality for me was a big factor after getting out of the floaty with crappy adjustable suspension 2009 XC70 (which even in its stiffest setting, doesn't compare to the driving pleasure the BMW provides). You can't for some reason even get the adjustable suspension in the XC70's in the US, which means it probably floats even more!
I have to say if I hadn't found my dream E61, I'd have gone for a new 2011 X3 with the 3 liter turbo engine. It handled really well for an SUV, had just a bit less cargo room I found than the E61, and didn't weigh like a pig of an SUV the X5 is (it's almost 5000 pounds). The X3 is the same weight as the E61 pretty much, so was nimble, accelerated well, and has adjustable suspension and steering and throttle too.
And maybe the current trend in crossovers will produce something decent...
Yeah, I wasn't sure if the current A4 Avant and the new A4 Allroad were the same platform, which I've since understood they are, so its trunk space with rear seats up is pretty small, and most likely rule it out again for me a few years down the road, especially since we have a dog too. The new F series 3 wagon I'm guessing will be similar, but having said that, the new F 3 series did grow 4 inches in length over the E90 series, so maybe it won't be too too bad...
The only high HP newish Euro wagon left in a few years (based on today's choices) would be a used 2011 A6 Avant, the current generation E wagon and the XC70 (which I'll never consider given my history with it before this car). Outback is another contender I suppose, but a much lower level of finishing (and comfort I'd presume), and its ride quality I wonder if it's too floaty?
I just noticed there's a 2012 Acura TSX wagon, with similar dimensions to our car... That's new! Engine seems really wimpy on it though and alas, I don't think it's AWD...
Ride quality for me was a big factor after getting out of the floaty with crappy adjustable suspension 2009 XC70 (which even in its stiffest setting, doesn't compare to the driving pleasure the BMW provides). You can't for some reason even get the adjustable suspension in the XC70's in the US, which means it probably floats even more!
I have to say if I hadn't found my dream E61, I'd have gone for a new 2011 X3 with the 3 liter turbo engine. It handled really well for an SUV, had just a bit less cargo room I found than the E61, and didn't weigh like a pig of an SUV the X5 is (it's almost 5000 pounds). The X3 is the same weight as the E61 pretty much, so was nimble, accelerated well, and has adjustable suspension and steering and throttle too.
And maybe the current trend in crossovers will produce something decent...
02-23-2012, 05:43 PM
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PS I was just looking on Autotrader for fun, and was surprised to see THREE brand new 2012 E63 AMG wagons listed - two at the same dealer in Texas! I thought they were special order only?
There was quite a few of the monster Cadillac CTS V Wagons too at $70k or so...
There was quite a few of the monster Cadillac CTS V Wagons too at $70k or so...