What the he11 is this? M5 is too slow for passing?
01-09-2007, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by dlevi67' post='375642' date='Jan 9 2007, 07:40 PM
I have driven a BMW with an auto box for the last 135000 miles. I know how smooth they can be. And I have been a passenger and a driver for quite a few miles in brand new Mercs, and I can easily feel when they downshift. The bottom part of your post has been covered and recovered in this thread at least 3 times by myself, plus a few other times by others. So, before you issue a flame, read the thread.
Re: not noticing that a car downshifts. No matter how smooth the box is, two things are going to happen: 1) the revs will rise, 2) the car will pick up more strongly. If a driver is not able to pick up those signals through his/her eyes and the seat of his/her pants, then he or she should do all of us a favour, and stick to the chaffeur-driven variety of car, as he/she is quite likely to be dangerous, especially if trying to go fast.
Re: not noticing that a car downshifts. No matter how smooth the box is, two things are going to happen: 1) the revs will rise, 2) the car will pick up more strongly. If a driver is not able to pick up those signals through his/her eyes and the seat of his/her pants, then he or she should do all of us a favour, and stick to the chaffeur-driven variety of car, as he/she is quite likely to be dangerous, especially if trying to go fast.
01-09-2007, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by dlevi67' post='375642' date='Jan 9 2007, 03:40 PM
I have driven a BMW with an auto box for the last 135000 miles. I know how smooth they can be. And I have been a passenger and a driver for quite a few miles in brand new Mercs, and I can easily feel when they downshift. The bottom part of your post has been covered and recovered in this thread at least 3 times by myself, plus a few other times by others. So, before you issue a flame, read the thread.
Re: not noticing that a car downshifts. No matter how smooth the box is, two things are going to happen: 1) the revs will rise, 2) the car will pick up more strongly. If a driver is not able to pick up those signals through his/her eyes and the seat of his/her pants, then he or she should do all of us a favour, and stick to the chaffeur-driven variety of car, as he/she is quite likely to be dangerous, especially if trying to go fast.
Re: not noticing that a car downshifts. No matter how smooth the box is, two things are going to happen: 1) the revs will rise, 2) the car will pick up more strongly. If a driver is not able to pick up those signals through his/her eyes and the seat of his/her pants, then he or she should do all of us a favour, and stick to the chaffeur-driven variety of car, as he/she is quite likely to be dangerous, especially if trying to go fast.
, watching the rev needle jumping up is just great. Reminds me of the SMG experience (part of it). 
01-09-2007, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by dlevi67' post='374563' date='Jan 7 2007, 03:51 PM
That's my point - they are comparing two auto boxes with a manual. And I'm not even sure it's the SMG they are looking at, as there is now a manual option for the M5 in the US. (And BTW - the SMG is manual. Sequential Manual Gearbox - with an auto programme, but a manual nonetheless)
If the step/tip/seletronic is set to manual, it will not shift gear unless a) you push the kickdown switch, b) the car redlines, c) it goes too slow for the gear, no matter how quickly you press the accelerator. I would expect a professional car driver to be able to avoid a) (since you and I can perfectly well do it), b) is not an issue at the speeds involved and c) is resolved by selecting the highest gear that the gearbox control unit will allow at 30 mph and 50 mph.
Alternatively, rather than running these tests in top gear, run them through the gears.
I am sure that, even on a fair test, the M5 would not come top of the pile. Partly because of its own torque curve, partly because the torque converter on the S6 and the E63 will unlock even if the gear does not change, giving them somewhat of an advantage. However it will not result in a ridiculous and totally non-comparable result as it does now. The M5 is not 2 to 3 times slower at in-gear pickup.
If the step/tip/seletronic is set to manual, it will not shift gear unless a) you push the kickdown switch, b) the car redlines, c) it goes too slow for the gear, no matter how quickly you press the accelerator. I would expect a professional car driver to be able to avoid a) (since you and I can perfectly well do it), b) is not an issue at the speeds involved and c) is resolved by selecting the highest gear that the gearbox control unit will allow at 30 mph and 50 mph.
Alternatively, rather than running these tests in top gear, run them through the gears.
I am sure that, even on a fair test, the M5 would not come top of the pile. Partly because of its own torque curve, partly because the torque converter on the S6 and the E63 will unlock even if the gear does not change, giving them somewhat of an advantage. However it will not result in a ridiculous and totally non-comparable result as it does now. The M5 is not 2 to 3 times slower at in-gear pickup.
I think we were saying more or less the same thing but in other ways
01-09-2007, 03:52 AM
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01-09-2007, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by my530i' post='374530' date='Jan 7 2007, 10:33 AM
M5 passing at top gear takes 7+ seconds? 
What happen if driver shift back to 3rd or 2nd instead of staying in 6th? 
Attachment 27296
What happen if driver shift back to 3rd or 2nd instead of staying in 6th? Attachment 27296
01-09-2007, 04:20 AM
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My Ride: In a place where the Mercedes density is the highest in the world (no. of MB per square kilometer) I choose a Bimmer, why? because of one thing "The Ultimate Driving Experience"
My Ride:
523i Steptronic, Silver Grey Exterior, Black Interior with Black Dakota Leather and Maple Wood Trim. Chrome Grill, Style 123 rim, Airbags everywhere, PDC, Rain sensor, Auto lights, Moveable front armrest, Advance Climate Control, Glass Sunroof, Auto dimming interior and exterior mirror with foldable functions, Extended Lights package, 6 CD changer in glove box, Power seats with memory, Power adjustable steering wheel, Power rear sunblinds.
Add ons: 123 wheels, chrome grill, K&N Hi flow filter, Eibach Pro Kit, e60.net decal and 24,000km
Past rides:
2001 Nissan Xterra SE
1999 E39 523i
1999 E46 323i
1996 Acura Integra LS
Originally Posted by big_ipaq' post='375659' date='Jan 9 2007, 08:59 PM
AFAIK SMG on M5 has 7 speeds... Is already out there an M5 version with manual gearbox?!? Boy I am getting old...
http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=34157
01-09-2007, 04:30 AM
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Then I am sure I must getting old... This week I checked for this reason the Deutschland BMW site and all I could find is SMG transmission. Is the 6-sp manual available only for US?
01-09-2007, 08:14 AM
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01-09-2007, 09:16 PM
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My Ride: In a place where the Mercedes density is the highest in the world (no. of MB per square kilometer) I choose a Bimmer, why? because of one thing "The Ultimate Driving Experience"
My Ride:
523i Steptronic, Silver Grey Exterior, Black Interior with Black Dakota Leather and Maple Wood Trim. Chrome Grill, Style 123 rim, Airbags everywhere, PDC, Rain sensor, Auto lights, Moveable front armrest, Advance Climate Control, Glass Sunroof, Auto dimming interior and exterior mirror with foldable functions, Extended Lights package, 6 CD changer in glove box, Power seats with memory, Power adjustable steering wheel, Power rear sunblinds.
Add ons: 123 wheels, chrome grill, K&N Hi flow filter, Eibach Pro Kit, e60.net decal and 24,000km
Past rides:
2001 Nissan Xterra SE
1999 E39 523i
1999 E46 323i
1996 Acura Integra LS
Originally Posted by dlevi67' post='375764' date='Jan 10 2007, 01:14 AM
Do you also have something sensible and useful to contribute?
If you are not noticing when an auto box is shifting down, you should not really be trying to drive all that fast.
At the very very least, the rev counter will move rather briskly. And so will the car. And your "bum dynamometer" - to use the happy frase from some other poster - should tell you that!
At the very very least, the rev counter will move rather briskly. And so will the car. And your "bum dynamometer" - to use the happy frase from some other poster - should tell you that!
)
Re: not noticing that a car downshifts. No matter how smooth the box is, two things are going to happen: 1) the revs will rise, 2) the car will pick up more strongly. If a driver is not able to pick up those signals through his/her eyes and the seat of his/her pants, then he or she should do all of us a favour, and stick to the chaffeur-driven variety of car, as he/she is quite likely to be dangerous, especially if trying to go fast.
If not than this is quite a bold statement to make.
01-10-2007, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by AC_S5' post='376188' date='Jan 10 2007, 06:16 AM
As if your post is useful and meaningful
Why do you conclude that people can only drive fast if they can tell when the autobox shift down. When did you see a racing car driver using a autobox that automatically downshift in a race. (Beside playing on your Playstation )
Do they test your knowledge of whether or not you can tell the car is upshifting or downshifting before they give you a driver's license? If not than this is quite a bold statement to make.
Why do you conclude that people can only drive fast if they can tell when the autobox shift down. When did you see a racing car driver using a autobox that automatically downshift in a race. (Beside playing on your Playstation
)Do they test your knowledge of whether or not you can tell the car is upshifting or downshifting before they give you a driver's license?
If not than this is quite a bold statement to make. If you are not aware of what your vehicle is doing (and that includes in what gear you are in /revs engine is doing), you are not in control. Or do you think that accelerating in the middle of a bend in 1st, 3rd or 5th gear is going to produce the same effect?
For your information, I have raced motocross motorbikes (without a rev counter) for a few years, acted as a navigator in a couple of rallyes, and I feel qualified in that respect. On the other hand, I do not have a playstation or any other form of gaming console. Perhaps you need a course in reality.
Finally, do you really think that having a drivers' license means you are able to drive?
Talk about making bold statements.