Shifting in M5
09-15-2008, 08:40 PM
#21
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I own both an e36 M3 and e60 M5 both are "sticks"...
The M3 is my daily driver - the M5 weekends.
I find the M5 shifting smooth and elegant.
By no means is it soft and mushy.
The M5 shifting is accurate, although not notchy like a short shift kit.
In summary it has a better feel than the e46 M3 shifting.
It really suits the size and power of the car.
My final 2cents - last month I drove an e93 M3 "stick".
It has a much better feel than the e46 M3 and is a tad-better than the e60 M5.
I know that BMW is making huge investments in SMG type transmissions with paddle shifting.
And I'm sure they'll get it right -- having said that.
I believe that BMW is also improving the manual transmisson, however it is quitely kept.
The M3 is my daily driver - the M5 weekends.
I find the M5 shifting smooth and elegant.
By no means is it soft and mushy.
The M5 shifting is accurate, although not notchy like a short shift kit.
In summary it has a better feel than the e46 M3 shifting.
It really suits the size and power of the car.
My final 2cents - last month I drove an e93 M3 "stick".
It has a much better feel than the e46 M3 and is a tad-better than the e60 M5.
I know that BMW is making huge investments in SMG type transmissions with paddle shifting.
And I'm sure they'll get it right -- having said that.
I believe that BMW is also improving the manual transmisson, however it is quitely kept.
09-22-2008, 04:28 PM
#22
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Here is a link to some real world experience with the 6-speed as well as an Edmund's article that talks about the issue. Again, I am not trying to bash the 6-speed, just want others to take the SMG bashing with at least a grain of salt.
The more you drive the SMG and learn little tricks the more fun it is to drive. Sadly you will not be able to understand this from a test drive and it will take weeks to truly understand all that you can do with it.
Because of this learning curve, first impressions may not be so great and I think that is part of the reason why so many bad opinions/reviews of the SMG. For me it just gives and keeps on giving, luv it!
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e6...tml#post1423242
Hopefully BMW works out the issues with the 6-speed...
The more you drive the SMG and learn little tricks the more fun it is to drive. Sadly you will not be able to understand this from a test drive and it will take weeks to truly understand all that you can do with it.
Because of this learning curve, first impressions may not be so great and I think that is part of the reason why so many bad opinions/reviews of the SMG. For me it just gives and keeps on giving, luv it!
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e6...tml#post1423242
Hopefully BMW works out the issues with the 6-speed...
09-28-2008, 10:06 AM
#23
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My Ride: 2005 545i (SMG)
Titanium Gray
Black Interior, Anthracite Trim
M-tech kit
Sport Package
Premium Sound
Satellite Radio
Active Cruise
Comfort Seats
Navigation
Folding rear seats
I do not own an M5, but rather a 545i with SMG transmission. I have driven the SMG M5 however, at the BMW performance center.
The "rough shifts" are not an M5 phenominon, but a SMG one. It's just that the power in the M5 is higher, so the jerkiness is more noticable. But what people don't seem to realize is that the jerky shifts with SMG are due to driver error.
The SMG is not an automatic transmission. It is a manual transmission with an electronically controlled clutch. While the car's computer will do it's best to match the revs for each shift, the car still requires a minor amount of driver input to attain the best shifting. This driver input comes from how you operate the accelerator pedal.
Here is how I get silky smooth shifts on my 545i SMG:
1. From a stop, accelerate in 1st gear.
2. When I am ready to change gears, I pull on the shifter paddle or shift knob.
3. The car engages the electronic clutch, shifts to the next gear, and then disengages the clutch. While this is happening, I will release some of the pressure on the accelerator pedal. I don't lift my shoe off the pedal, but rather just lift my foot inside my shoe slightly.
4. I wait for the clutch to disengage before I apply pressure back to the accelerator pedal.
5. Accelerate in that gear, and repeat steps 2-4 again. etc...
By waiting for the shift to complete before accelerating again, you reduce the jerkiness of the shift. The best way I can explain what is causing the jerks is that when you press the shifter paddle, the car's computer takes over the throttle for a moment to match revs for that shift. Then when the shift is done, the computer gives control of the throttle back to the driver. If during the shift you are pressing down on the accelerator pedal, then that transition from computer control to driver control results in a quick boost in Revs. That, in turn, creates a jolt from the power of the car. The jerks are more noticable in lower gears due to the higher torque.
The "rough shifts" are not an M5 phenominon, but a SMG one. It's just that the power in the M5 is higher, so the jerkiness is more noticable. But what people don't seem to realize is that the jerky shifts with SMG are due to driver error.
The SMG is not an automatic transmission. It is a manual transmission with an electronically controlled clutch. While the car's computer will do it's best to match the revs for each shift, the car still requires a minor amount of driver input to attain the best shifting. This driver input comes from how you operate the accelerator pedal.
Here is how I get silky smooth shifts on my 545i SMG:
1. From a stop, accelerate in 1st gear.
2. When I am ready to change gears, I pull on the shifter paddle or shift knob.
3. The car engages the electronic clutch, shifts to the next gear, and then disengages the clutch. While this is happening, I will release some of the pressure on the accelerator pedal. I don't lift my shoe off the pedal, but rather just lift my foot inside my shoe slightly.
4. I wait for the clutch to disengage before I apply pressure back to the accelerator pedal.
5. Accelerate in that gear, and repeat steps 2-4 again. etc...
By waiting for the shift to complete before accelerating again, you reduce the jerkiness of the shift. The best way I can explain what is causing the jerks is that when you press the shifter paddle, the car's computer takes over the throttle for a moment to match revs for that shift. Then when the shift is done, the computer gives control of the throttle back to the driver. If during the shift you are pressing down on the accelerator pedal, then that transition from computer control to driver control results in a quick boost in Revs. That, in turn, creates a jolt from the power of the car. The jerks are more noticable in lower gears due to the higher torque.
09-28-2008, 11:50 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by subterFUSE' post='680306' date='Sep 28 2008, 01:06 PM
I do not own an M5, but rather a 545i with SMG transmission. I have driven the SMG M5 however, at the BMW performance center.
The "rough shifts" are not an M5 phenominon, but a SMG one. It's just that the power in the M5 is higher, so the jerkiness is more noticable. But what people don't seem to realize is that the jerky shifts with SMG are due to driver error.
The SMG is not an automatic transmission. It is a manual transmission with an electronically controlled clutch. While the car's computer will do it's best to match the revs for each shift, the car still requires a minor amount of driver input to attain the best shifting. This driver input comes from how you operate the accelerator pedal.
Here is how I get silky smooth shifts on my 545i SMG:
1. From a stop, accelerate in 1st gear.
2. When I am ready to change gears, I pull on the shifter paddle or shift knob.
3. The car engages the electronic clutch, shifts to the next gear, and then disengages the clutch. While this is happening, I will release some of the pressure on the accelerator pedal. I don't lift my shoe off the pedal, but rather just lift my foot inside my shoe slightly.
4. I wait for the clutch to disengage before I apply pressure back to the accelerator pedal.
5. Accelerate in that gear, and repeat steps 2-4 again. etc...
By waiting for the shift to complete before accelerating again, you reduce the jerkiness of the shift. The best way I can explain what is causing the jerks is that when you press the shifter paddle, the car's computer takes over the throttle for a moment to match revs for that shift. Then when the shift is done, the computer gives control of the throttle back to the driver. If during the shift you are pressing down on the accelerator pedal, then that transition from computer control to driver control results in a quick boost in Revs. That, in turn, creates a jolt from the power of the car. The jerks are more noticable in lower gears due to the higher torque.
The "rough shifts" are not an M5 phenominon, but a SMG one. It's just that the power in the M5 is higher, so the jerkiness is more noticable. But what people don't seem to realize is that the jerky shifts with SMG are due to driver error.
The SMG is not an automatic transmission. It is a manual transmission with an electronically controlled clutch. While the car's computer will do it's best to match the revs for each shift, the car still requires a minor amount of driver input to attain the best shifting. This driver input comes from how you operate the accelerator pedal.
Here is how I get silky smooth shifts on my 545i SMG:
1. From a stop, accelerate in 1st gear.
2. When I am ready to change gears, I pull on the shifter paddle or shift knob.
3. The car engages the electronic clutch, shifts to the next gear, and then disengages the clutch. While this is happening, I will release some of the pressure on the accelerator pedal. I don't lift my shoe off the pedal, but rather just lift my foot inside my shoe slightly.
4. I wait for the clutch to disengage before I apply pressure back to the accelerator pedal.
5. Accelerate in that gear, and repeat steps 2-4 again. etc...
By waiting for the shift to complete before accelerating again, you reduce the jerkiness of the shift. The best way I can explain what is causing the jerks is that when you press the shifter paddle, the car's computer takes over the throttle for a moment to match revs for that shift. Then when the shift is done, the computer gives control of the throttle back to the driver. If during the shift you are pressing down on the accelerator pedal, then that transition from computer control to driver control results in a quick boost in Revs. That, in turn, creates a jolt from the power of the car. The jerks are more noticable in lower gears due to the higher torque.
For those that may still not get it... Imagine if you were driving a typical manual stick shift and didn't lift up on the accelerator while shifting... WTF do you think it would feel like?
After only a few days, I've mastered the technique to silky smooth shifting of the SMG... even under hard acceleration. I'm constantly amazed at the AI in the SMG... especially at low speeds in stop and go traffic. How it can keep the car from stalling yet allow slow movement is amazing... if you drive a stick shift, you will be amazed at the programming that has gone into the SMG. It's stunning.
10-01-2008, 07:49 AM
#25
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My Ride: 2005 545i (SMG)
Titanium Gray
Black Interior, Anthracite Trim
M-tech kit
Sport Package
Premium Sound
Satellite Radio
Active Cruise
Comfort Seats
Navigation
Folding rear seats
Originally Posted by VirtualRain' post='680721' date='Sep 29 2008, 03:50 AM
You got it man... This is absolutely the way to shift the SMG.
For those that may still not get it... Imagine if you were driving a typical manual stick shift and didn't lift up on the accelerator while shifting... WTF do you think it would feel like?
After only a few days, I've mastered the technique to silky smooth shifting of the SMG... even under hard acceleration. I'm constantly amazed at the AI in the SMG... especially at low speeds in stop and go traffic. How it can keep the car from stalling yet allow slow movement is amazing... if you drive a stick shift, you will be amazed at the programming that has gone into the SMG. It's stunning.
For those that may still not get it... Imagine if you were driving a typical manual stick shift and didn't lift up on the accelerator while shifting... WTF do you think it would feel like?
After only a few days, I've mastered the technique to silky smooth shifting of the SMG... even under hard acceleration. I'm constantly amazed at the AI in the SMG... especially at low speeds in stop and go traffic. How it can keep the car from stalling yet allow slow movement is amazing... if you drive a stick shift, you will be amazed at the programming that has gone into the SMG. It's stunning.
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