swajames

Again, this is nothing more than speculative bench racing... We have no idea what the F10 M5 will or won't do, and we have no idea what may happen with the CTS-V and/or the LSA engine architecture in the intervening period. Kind of pointless to speculate at this point about an unreleased car, particularly with such expletive-laden confidence.

bighersh

The Previous Gen CTS-V was no slouch. It had 400 HP if memory serves, and wasn't far behind the M5 in terms of performance. This new one just upped the ante and trumped every other sport sedan in the process.

Once BMW plays the F10 M5 card, (and if previous gen M5's are any indication) it'll be the head of the class. But, I'm certain it'll be one-upped again. GM already has that engine (one very similar) detuned to 638 HP for the Corvette ZR1. Detuned from 700 HP.

So, the HP wars have begun. No doubt the F10 M5 will be head of the class when it comes out (And, I'm sure the CTS-V's performance sent them back to the drawing board for a few tweaks- after all, who expected GM to have the balls to challenge Germany, and stuff 556 HP into a CTS?). However, the F10's reign (if it reigns) will be short-lived with Mercedes and Cadillac (and don't count out Infiniti & Lexus) gunning for them. Nissan has the GT-R engine (480 - 620 HP) they could easily stuff into the Infiniti M-class, and Toyota has the LS's engine, and teh one in the Tundra. The one in the Tundra has already been rated up to 481 HP naturally aspirated- which was speculkated for the sporty version of the Tundra, that never came out.

pukka

There has been speculation of a 4-door GT-R with the Infiniti label. Its predecessor (Nissan Skyline) came in both 2 and 4 door models for years - only the 2 door Skyline GTR got the publicity. It was this car that got me hooked on turbos. Nissan definitely has the engineering and experience to enter this segment.

bighersh

Man, if you were Army, we were probably in some of the same places, I don't recall if you said what branch you were in, but I was in the Army... MOS: 31L, and 31F. I kick myself at least once a week for not staying in, especially after they changed it back to where folks liek you and I could retire at 20 and draw retirement, rather than at 30. They changed that about 4 years after I got out, no way would I have gotten out after 10, I woudl have likely retired in 2007- had I stayed. My buddies that I keep up with, are all E-8, or CWO's now. No E-9's yet... One is an O-5 (LTC).

Some of these "tweakers" have pumped that Skyline V6 to 1,100 HP- The same with the Toyota Supra's 3.0L I6.
So, I agree- Nissan/Toyota (Infiniti/Lexus) can enter this party very easily, and they can do it with a 6 cylinder engine. They've been teasing the US market with the Skyline for more than 20 years now.

As for me- here are my past duty stations-

1987: Basic: C. Co, 2/28th INF BN, Black Lions
1987: AIT: E. Co., 369th SIG BN, 31L
1987 - 1990: Wurzburg, Germany, 123rd SIG BN
1990: PLDC: NCO Academy, Ft. Bliss, TX
1990 - 1991: Ft. Huachuca, AZ (Desert Storm, Nov. 1990 June 1991), 69th SIG Co., 40th SIG BN
1991 - 1992: AIT: D. Co., 369th SIG BN, 31F (MSE)
1992 - 1994: Ft. Hood, TX. 57th SIG BN, 3rd SIG BDE
1994 - 1995: Tong Du Chon/Uijongbu, South Korea- D. Co. 122nd SIG BN.
1995 - 1997: Ft. Hood, TX 16th SIG BN, 3rd SIG BDE

jerseymike68

Useful links here

bighersh

Found it...

It got moved here for some reason...

GT Premi

I have to kinda disagree w/ the exclusivity factor. I don't have any sales numbers, but I'd venture a guess that the CTS-V is more exclusive than the M5. For one, there are too many import snobs (like lots of you guys) shopping in that price range for the CTS-V to sell in "big" numbers. Second, people that buy Cadillacs aren't typically going to ante up that much loot unless they're buying an Escalade.

For me, I'd definitely buy a current CTS-V over an E60. Had this CTS-V been around at the time I was shopping, for the same money I paid for my 550i, I'd be rolling in a CTS-V. Two things kept me from buying the previous CTS-V at the time, 1) the interior was atrocious, and 2) the gas mileage was more atrocious still. Add those to the fact that it only had 40 more HP than the 550i, well...

Also for you exclusivity shoppers, if you look at it, there were/are fewer 540i/545i/550i sold than M5s. So you could have saved TENS OF THOUSANDS and bought one of those if exclusivity is your thing. Just saying.

And I like the interior of the new CTS, especially in the V.

pjinca

What amuses me is the contention that the Europeans think BMW is crap. While I have not lived in Europe I know many Europeans and as can be determined by the number of European members here BMW is still popular and exclusive in Europe as well. Granted the Cadillac would be MORE exclusive since it is imported from farther away, but the contention that Europeans think American cars are better is ridiculous.

What all this boils down to is preference. I (for instance) have always had a love for BMW, loved the designs, the engineering, the performance. Do I think it is the best car made? No, I am neither stupid or delusional enough to believe that. However, my personal preference (and experience after living in the US my whole life) is to avoid American made cars - mainly because they are crappily made. If I ever need a pickup truck I would certainly prefer American (probably an F150), but for cars? It will always be European as long as I can.

pukka

Where exactly in this thread did anybody say the Europeans think BMW is crap or American cars are better?

Reality:
In GERMANY, 75% of the cars on the road are BMW, Audi, or MB. 7er's, A8's and S-Class's are TAXI CABS. These cars have cloth seats, and some even have crank-up windows. Nothing exclusive there except for what I said in my earlier post. Germans bash on each other about MB/Audi/BMW the same way Americans will get in a piss contest between a Chevy and a Ford. And truth be told, alot of folks over there don't favor BMW over Audi or MB.

If you still can't comprehend that, go over there and see for yourself. Enjoy the Oktoberfest while you are at it.

pjinca

And I understand that, any country with a domestic auto manufacturing base will have the majority of cars on the road being one of the domestic brands. In Brazil and Mexico they still use VW Beetles as Taxi's in some locations and here in Santa Monica all the Taxi's are MB's - is this supposed to make some kind of difference in my point of view?

As I recall someone said the Germans called BMW - "Bavarian Manure Wagons". Now, granted, this can be just like most Americans who don't prefer Fords calling them Found On Roadside Dead / Fix Or Repair Daily.

The contention that the CTS-V is so much better than the M5 is similar to the recent revelation that Buick leads the JD Power survey taking over the top spot from Lexus. Lo and Behold, there are no lines at the Buick dealership - what a shocker!!! Maybe because no one under 70 drives a Buick willingly, hell they had to pay Tiger Woods $100Mil to endorse it. So no matter what the survey says no one in their right mind takes a Buick over a Lexus, the same can be said for the Cadillac - you ASPIRE to own an M5, you settle for a Cadillac