M5 Kills RS6 then comes the near heart-attack
03-31-2006, 06:11 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by maninblack' post='263226' date='Mar 31 2006, 09:30 PM
It always comes down to the driver. A good driver in an RS6 will take an ordinary one in an M5 no probs and vice versa. They are pretty close cars. It may have also had something to do with the risks one is willing to take. In some places, get caught doing that speed and it's automatic loss of licence 
I ran with an RS6 in my 545i 6sp on the way back from the Indy Formula I race (the joke), and I was able to stay with him drafting at pretty high speeds. I was very surprised that he didn't pull on me from 80 - 130 or so, but I was stuck on his bumper getting the draft. So it shouldn't surprise you the RS6 really doesn't compete with the M5.
The RS6 has 450 HP, but with quattro, loses about 25% to the wheels, and with only 5 speeds, loses more at high speeds. You're probably talking about 330 or so rwhp to the wheels on an RS6, and close to the weight of the M5. So the M5 at around 430 rwhp is running close to 100 rwhp more than the Audi, with nearly the same weight, and a better Cd. That's a lot, and with the superior gearing of the M5, it's really not much of a contest.
If you're still not convinced, check out the magazine cartest numbers. They verify the M5 will put many carlengths on the RS6 on a highwayrun. It's a good 2-3 seconds quicker in the 100-200 kph test.
03-31-2006, 06:13 PM
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Agreed , but to my knowledge the loss in the audi is much smaller than you quote 
i expect no more than 20% loss with +/- 2% for the AWD. nevertheless it is a great car , m5 is simply better.... but when the new 600bhp one comes..then well
i expect no more than 20% loss with +/- 2% for the AWD. nevertheless it is a great car , m5 is simply better.... but when the new 600bhp one comes..then well
03-31-2006, 06:17 PM
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ok smaller.. not much smaller
anyways were comparing old generation RS6 VS new gen M5... back in its day the RS6 (and plus) was a highly capable car and susceptible to ridiculous levels of tuning
anyways were comparing old generation RS6 VS new gen M5... back in its day the RS6 (and plus) was a highly capable car and susceptible to ridiculous levels of tuning
03-31-2006, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 700700' post='263239' date='Mar 31 2006, 10:13 PM
Agreed , but to my knowledge the loss in the audi is much smaller than you quote i expect no more than 20% loss with +/- 2% for the AWD. nevertheless it is a great car , m5 is simply better.... but when the new 600bhp one comes..then well
i expect no more than 20% loss with +/- 2% for the AWD. nevertheless it is a great car , m5 is simply better.... but when the new 600bhp one comes..then well B. Let's say you're right, and the loss is 20%, then you're looking at 440 rwhp - 10 rwhp more than the M5.
C. The New RS6 will certainly be heavier than the M5, so the Hp/weight ratio will not be significantly better
D. If they go 7 sp DSG, then it could be very close - otherwise they'll have a gearing disadvantage - we'll have to see.
E. I'll bet you lunch the new RS6 doesn't beat the E60 M5 on a highway run from 100 - 200 kph. The M5's are recording times in the low 9 second range.
F. The "well, wait until they come out with the..." argument is pretty lame in general. We're talking about cars that exist today.
03-31-2006, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by wolverine' post='263242' date='Apr 1 2006, 03:23 AM
A. There will not be a 600 HP Audi RS6 - it's 550 hp unless you have information I haven't seen.
B. Let's say you're right, and the loss is 20%, then you're looking at 440 rwhp - 10 rwhp more than the M5.
C. The New RS6 will certainly be heavier than the M5, so the Hp/weight ratio will not be significantly better
D. If they go 7 sp DSG, then it could be very close - otherwise they'll have a gearing disadvantage - we'll have to see.
E. I'll bet you lunch the new RS6 doesn't beat the E60 M5 on a highway run from 100 - 200 kph. The M5's are recording times in the low 9 second range.
F. The "well, wait until they come out with the..." argument is pretty lame in general. We're talking about cars that exist today.
B. Let's say you're right, and the loss is 20%, then you're looking at 440 rwhp - 10 rwhp more than the M5.
C. The New RS6 will certainly be heavier than the M5, so the Hp/weight ratio will not be significantly better
D. If they go 7 sp DSG, then it could be very close - otherwise they'll have a gearing disadvantage - we'll have to see.
E. I'll bet you lunch the new RS6 doesn't beat the E60 M5 on a highway run from 100 - 200 kph. The M5's are recording times in the low 9 second range.
F. The "well, wait until they come out with the..." argument is pretty lame in general. We're talking about cars that exist today.
i am reffering to 600bhp as this is an estimate that was give to the audi club uk forum... i do not know for sure. Although i would 99% expect it to be quicker than the m5. Remember new RS4 Vs m3?
As for the weight, the AWD will of course add to it, but from what i learn audi's engineers are trying not to fill the car with electronics to the brim, as is the case in the m5, so i would not expect it to be significantly heavier
03-31-2006, 07:41 PM
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Thx Wolf, that was a 
story, one for the obvious kill, one for jamming.
it is not legal in WEU but in East you can still trick cops
the only Audi I like and respect is called: Lambourghini
note and we already have the 600bhp M5
retired cop made best site
http://www.radarbusters.com/products...er/default.asp
story, one for the obvious kill, one for jamming.it is not legal in WEU but in East you can still trick cops
the only Audi I like and respect is called: Lambourghini
note and we already have the 600bhp M5
retired cop made best site
http://www.radarbusters.com/products...er/default.asp
03-31-2006, 09:27 PM
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This is all just stats and straight line speeds. Set out a driving course of decent length and of various conditions to see what car is truly faster. Still comes down to the driver though. I'm sure you could put me ( or perhaps any of us ) in an M5 and put Loeb or Gronholm in an RS6, or even something slower, and they'd kick my arse good.
04-01-2006, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by wolverine' post='263242' date='Mar 31 2006, 10:23 PM
A. There will not be a 600 HP Audi RS6 - it's 550 hp unless you have information I haven't seen.
B. Let's say you're right, and the loss is 20%, then you're looking at 440 rwhp - 10 rwhp more than the M5.
C. The New RS6 will certainly be heavier than the M5, so the Hp/weight ratio will not be significantly better
D. If they go 7 sp DSG, then it could be very close - otherwise they'll have a gearing disadvantage - we'll have to see.
E. I'll bet you lunch the new RS6 doesn't beat the E60 M5 on a highway run from 100 - 200 kph. The M5's are recording times in the low 9 second range.
F. The "well, wait until they come out with the..." argument is pretty lame in general. We're talking about cars that exist today.
B. Let's say you're right, and the loss is 20%, then you're looking at 440 rwhp - 10 rwhp more than the M5.
C. The New RS6 will certainly be heavier than the M5, so the Hp/weight ratio will not be significantly better
D. If they go 7 sp DSG, then it could be very close - otherwise they'll have a gearing disadvantage - we'll have to see.
E. I'll bet you lunch the new RS6 doesn't beat the E60 M5 on a highway run from 100 - 200 kph. The M5's are recording times in the low 9 second range.
F. The "well, wait until they come out with the..." argument is pretty lame in general. We're talking about cars that exist today.
Nice story btw. Did you ever put on the RSGTs?
04-01-2006, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by xexyus' post='263322' date='Apr 1 2006, 07:37 AM
Nice story btw. Did you ever put on the RSGTs?
04-01-2006, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by 700700' post='263244' date='Mar 31 2006, 10:41 PM
Cars that exist today is a very loose concept as one might tell you, because for less $ than an e60 m5 you could get an RS6 and do this to it >> http://www.bb-automobiltechnik.de/bb2004/e..._v_rs6_plus.php
i am reffering to 600bhp as this is an estimate that was give to the audi club uk forum... i do not know for sure. Although i would 99% expect it to be quicker than the m5. Remember new RS4 Vs m3?
As for the weight, the AWD will of course add to it, but from what i learn audi's engineers are trying not to fill the car with electronics to the brim, as is the case in the m5, so i would not expect it to be significantly heavier
i am reffering to 600bhp as this is an estimate that was give to the audi club uk forum... i do not know for sure. Although i would 99% expect it to be quicker than the m5. Remember new RS4 Vs m3?
As for the weight, the AWD will of course add to it, but from what i learn audi's engineers are trying not to fill the car with electronics to the brim, as is the case in the m5, so i would not expect it to be significantly heavier
The second problem is the weight distribution. All Audi's have the engine in front of the front axle. This means a 60/40 nose-heavy weight distribution, and basic physics work against this car handling like a 50/50 car. Otherwise, they are just incredible cars. I hope the new RS6 does up the ante - it's good news for us car enthusiasts if BMW, Mercedes and Audi are all competing like this.