M5
10-18-2005, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by wolverine' date='Oct 18 2005, 04:48 PM
[quote name='donv' date='Oct 18 2005, 03:35 PM'][quote name='ipse dixit' date='Oct 17 2005, 03:06 PM']I was just spec'ing an M5 on the BMW website and it came out to about $89K USD.? Besides the metallic paint, I also added some goodies like Comfort Access, M Seats, HUD, and the MSRP came out to just a hair under $90K USD.
Now a similarly configured 650Ci would be about $10K less.
Given the standard features that are available on the M5 vis-a-vis the 650i, I think the 10k difference is almost comical.?
Consider:
*You get the V10 with the M5 (and only a V8 on the 650)
*You get EDC and HPS (both of which are not offered on the 650)
*LSD (or M Variable Differential)
*SMG III with the M5 (versus the "regular" SMG for the 650)
*Bigger brakes and beefier suspension setup
Heck, I think just the V10 alone would justify the 10k difference.
Thoughts?
Now a similarly configured 650Ci would be about $10K less.
Given the standard features that are available on the M5 vis-a-vis the 650i, I think the 10k difference is almost comical.?
Consider:
*You get the V10 with the M5 (and only a V8 on the 650)
*You get EDC and HPS (both of which are not offered on the 650)
*LSD (or M Variable Differential)
*SMG III with the M5 (versus the "regular" SMG for the 650)
*Bigger brakes and beefier suspension setup
Heck, I think just the V10 alone would justify the 10k difference.
Thoughts?
[snapback]185334[/snapback]
550i--$69,730 (including the aero kit);
650i--$77,940; and
M5--$85,865 + Gas guzzler tax of $3,700 = $89,565 (Ignored the extended leather--not sure if I would really like it better).
When I think about cars, I don't get overly specific about "small" differences--things that would make little difference in my day-to-day driving experience. The sorts of things that ipse dixit mentions are the sorts of things I would be concerned about. In sum, I would think primarily about performance (including the things ipse dixit mentions), looks, and relative pricing.
In the performance category, I would sacrifice some excellent handling for additional straight-line performance--since I would have, and would care to have, few occassions to seriously explore the M5's handling abilities. In the looks category, I would sacrifice some looks for some convenience. And, then I'd somehow work in price.
I agree with wolverine's idea that one pays about $10,000 for styling/coupeness when buying a 650i. I would quickly eliminate the 650i (as I did the 645i) because I don't think it looks much, if any, better than the sexy 550i (or, in my case, 545i) and lacks the convenience of the latter. Without much thought, I would consider the the M5 to be a bargain compared to the 650i.
So, I am faced with a $16,135 price difference for the M5 and the 550i. The M5 wins on looks, but only slightly since I compensated with the aero kit. The M5 wins decidely on performance--straight-line and curves--no matter how good its performance turns out to be. In this regard, its straight-line performance is more important to me.
Now comes the main issue for me. Is the M5 a bargain compared to the 550i? Given my preferences, it is only a bargain if its straight-line performance is sufficiently faster than a modestly modded 550i. Let's say the 550'i stock performance is 5.2 (60) and 13.4 (quarter)--which is .2 faster to 60 than the 545i in 2 of 3 "big-3" US mag tests and which is 3 faster in the quarter than the 545i in all 3 mags. Now, let's say I spend the same amount of a 550i that I have spent to date on my 545i--about $3,000 that I don't expect to recoup. Then, the 550i might do 5.0 and 13.1, and the incremental cost of the M5 becomes about $15,135--with no incremental warranty issues. To me, that difference makes the M5 sound like a bargain compared to the 550i.
Bargain or not, I am not sure that I would buy the M5. For one thing, I don't find cars that perform straight-line as well as the M5 probably will to be that much fun. First, one gets used to their acceleration very quickly. And, second, where is the fun in having a car that obviously is much faster than any other car one probably would ever line up against in a fairly safe place? The most fun car I've ever had is my 1985 after-market turbo RX-7 GSL-SE. It beats so many cars it "shouldn't" it is a blast. Also, while I am not sure about the BMW driving schools, generally speaking, if one takes his/her car to the track, then its warranty is at risk. So, where does one get to fully experience an M5?--or my Z06?
The bottom line is that I would perfer to have a car that is faster than it "should be"--like my 545i. At least there is a chance that I will line up in a reasonably safe place with a car I shouldn't beat to 60, but can--say maybe an unmodded 550i or 650i. In this regard, I very seldomly will do streeties much in excess of 60 MPH.
I think I believe all that I said above. ~{;^) But, still, maybe I'll buy an M5 or a new Z06 when their prices come down to earth and when they are not first-year cars. I don't like buying first-year cars.
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[/quote]I do think part of the kick of having an M5 (for me anyways) instead of an M6 is the idea of a 4 door sedan just blowing the doors off cars like the Porsche 911S.Imagine a kid looking out the back window of an M5 and sticking his tounge out at the 911S driver as the M5 blows by him on the highway.
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[/quote]I think that your fantasy is a great one, but think how fast you would be going. Would you do it with your child in the car? I find that most of the lure of the very fast is fantasy. And, like most fantasies, they don't happen.
10-18-2005, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by donv' date='Oct 18 2005, 02:35 PM
[quote name='ipse dixit' date='Oct 17 2005, 03:06 PM']I was just spec'ing an M5 on the BMW website and it came out to about $89K USD.? Besides the metallic paint, I also added some goodies like Comfort Access, M Seats, HUD, and the MSRP came out to just a hair under $90K USD.
Now a similarly configured 650Ci would be about $10K less.
Given the standard features that are available on the M5 vis-a-vis the 650i, I think the 10k difference is almost comical.?
Consider:
*You get the V10 with the M5 (and only a V8 on the 650)
*You get EDC and HPS (both of which are not offered on the 650)
*LSD (or M Variable Differential)
*SMG III with the M5 (versus the "regular" SMG for the 650)
*Bigger brakes and beefier suspension setup
Heck, I think just the V10 alone would justify the 10k difference.
Thoughts?
Now a similarly configured 650Ci would be about $10K less.
Given the standard features that are available on the M5 vis-a-vis the 650i, I think the 10k difference is almost comical.?
Consider:
*You get the V10 with the M5 (and only a V8 on the 650)
*You get EDC and HPS (both of which are not offered on the 650)
*LSD (or M Variable Differential)
*SMG III with the M5 (versus the "regular" SMG for the 650)
*Bigger brakes and beefier suspension setup
Heck, I think just the V10 alone would justify the 10k difference.
Thoughts?
[snapback]185334[/snapback]
550i--$69,730 (including the aero kit);
650i--$77,940; and
M5--$85,865 + Gas guzzler tax of $3,700 = $89,565 (Ignored the extended leather--not sure if I would really like it better).
When I think about cars, I don't get overly specific about "small" differences--things that would make little difference in my day-to-day driving experience. The sorts of things that ipse dixit mentions are the sorts of things I would be concerned about. In sum, I would think primarily about performance (including the things ipse dixit mentions), looks, and relative pricing.
In the performance category, I would sacrifice some excellent handling for additional straight-line performance--since I would have, and would care to have, few occassions to seriously explore the M5's handling abilities. In the looks category, I would sacrifice some looks for some convenience. And, then I'd somehow work in price.
I agree with the idea that one pays about $10,000 for styling/coupeness when buying a 650i. I would quickly eliminate the 650i (as I did the 645i) because I don't think it looks much, if any, better than the sexy 550i (or, in my case, 545i) and lacks the convenience of the latter. Without much thought, I would consider the the M5 to be a bargain compared to the 650i.
So, I am faced with a $16,135 price difference for the M5 and the 550i. The M5 wins on looks, but only slightly since I compensated with the aero kit. The M5 wins decidely on performance--straight-line and curves--no matter how good its performance turns out to be. In this regard, its straight-line performance is more important to me.
Now comes the main issue for me. Is the M5 a bargain compared to the 550i? Given my preferences, it is only a bargain if its straight-line performance is sufficiently faster than a modestly modded 550i. Let's say the 550'i stock performance is 5.2 (60) and 13.4 (quarter)--which is .2 faster to 60 than the 545i in 2 of 3 "big-3" US mag tests and which is 3 faster in the quarter than the 545i in all 3 mags. Now, let's say I spend the same amount of a 550i that I have spent to date on my 545i--about $3,000 that I don't expect to recoup. Then, the 550i might do 5.0 and 13.1, and the incremental cost of the M5 becomes about $13,135--with no incremental warranty issues. To me, that difference makes the M5 sound like a bargain compared to the 550i.
Bargain or not, I am not sure that I would buy the M5. For one thing, I don't find cars that perform straight-line as well as the M5 probably will to be that much fun. First, one gets used to their acceleration very quickly. And, second, where is the fun in having a car that obviously is much faster than any other car one probably would ever line up against in a fairly safe place? The most fun car I've ever had is my 1985 after-market turbo RX-7 GSL-SE. It beats so many cars it "shouldn't" it is a blast. Also, while I am not sure about the BMW driving schools, generally speaking, if one takes his/her car to the track, then its warranty is at risk. So, where does one get to fully experience an M5?--or my Z06?
The bottom line is that I would perfer to have a car that is faster than it "should be"--like my 545i. At least there is a chance that I will line up in a reasonably safe place with a car I shouldn't beat to 60, but can--say maybe an unmodded 550i or 650i. In this regard, I very seldomly will do streeties much in excess of 60 MPH.
I think I believe all that I said above. ~{;^) But, still, maybe I'll buy an M5 or a new Z06 when their prices come down to earth and when they are not first-year cars. I don't like buying first-year cars. And, what is a global bargain? Only the new Z06. It costs $75,000 including the gas-guzzler tax (if there is one), and it will badly beat virtually any car on earth that costs less than a much bigger bundle--whether going straight or through curves.
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[/quote]The allure of the M5 (as another poster aptly mentioned) is that it is the uber sports-sedan.
Sure, you could get a Z06 and based on MSRP come out about $15K in the black as compared to the M5 (good luck getting the Z06 at MSRP, by the way
), but would the Vette be any kind of a daily driver? Would you really want to go buy groceries in it? Could you even pick up your toddlers in that thing? Think about getting in and out of a Vette 6 or 7 times a day -- everyday! 
Conversely, the M5 could be a very suitable daily driver. Sure, you wouldn't want to test out its 1/4 mile times with your young ones strapped in the backseat, but when the kids are safely tucked away at home with their PS2 console, well, then, you could unstrap the carseats and let it rip.
Guess what I am getting at is that the M5 epitomizes the ultimate blend in practicality and performance, without sacrificing too much of either. Sure, the price is steep, but you pay for what you get I suppose.
BTW, you can fully experience the M5 if you take one of the BMW Performance driving school at Spartansburg, SC. You'll get your fill of throttling an M3 and M5 to your heart's content. You can read about the details here.
10-18-2005, 02:50 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by ipse dixit' date='Oct 18 2005, 05:11 PM
The allure of the M5 (as another poster aptly mentioned) is that it is the uber sports-sedan.
I think you are jousting with windmills below. I did not attempt to make a case for the Z06 except on the global bargain dimension. I agree with what you say about the M5, but not about the Z06. I am on your side, remember?
Sure, you could get a Z06 and based on MSRP come out about $15K in the black as compared to the M5 (good luck getting the Z06 at MSRP, by the way? ),
MSRP, or less, on the Z06 will happen by the time I am interested, if ever. As mentioned/implied, I don't buy first-year cars. I bought my 02, a second-year car, well below MSRP. Incidentally, can you now get an M5 for MSRP or less?
but would the Vette be any kind of a daily driver?
Z06's are excellent for daily driving--at least the 01's through the 04's are. They are very mild-mannered unless unleashed, and I don't imagine that has changed with the new ones. I get 16.5 MPG in town with little freeway driving. I can get better MPG both in town and on the highway with my Z06 than with my 545i.
Would you really want to go buy groceries in it?
Why not? You open the trunk in both cars and put the groceries in behind the safety net, right?
Could you even pick up your toddlers in that thing?? Think about getting in and out of a Vette 6 or 7 times a day -- everyday!??
Car seats work in Z06's--but just for one toddler.? Fortunately, I no longer am in the toddler business. And, I have my 545i anyway. I have a bad hip, and I have no trouble at all in getting in and out of my Z06 any number of times per day. But, a Lotus Elise, well, that's a different story.
Conversely, the M5 could be a very suitable daily driver.? Sure, you wouldn't want to test out its 1/4 mile times with your young ones strapped in the backseat, but when the kids are safely tucked away at home with their PS2 console, well, then, you could unstrap the carseats and let it rip.?
Guess what I am getting at is that the M5 epitomizes the ultimate blend in practicality and performance, without sacrificing too much of either.? Sure, the price is steep, but you pay for what you get I suppose.
I agree with all you say above except the "conversely" part, the possible intimation that Z06's are not up to the BMW standard (but they are), and the idea that the price of an M5 is particularly steep. As indicated, I think M5s are bargains compared to their family members (550i's and 650i's).?
BTW, you can fully experience the M5 if you take one of the BMW Performance driving school at Spartansburg, SC.? You'll get your fill of throttling an M3 and M5? to your heart's content.? You can read about the details here.
Yes, I mentioned schools above. Is there a possible effect on the BMW warranty from doing one of the schools? Just curious.
Regardless, I've done both the Bondurant beginning and advanced courses. Still, I wouldn't want to try to "fully experience" a BMW I own on a track because of the large number of things that can go wrong. A minor example is if a car spins out in front of you, then you stand a good chance of getting sand/rock blasted. And, if one plays it safe to avoid crashes, etc., then he/she won't be able to experience even the max the school will allow. Incidentally, I was't thinking that experiencing an M5 fully enough for me would be a problem. As said, I get used to fast cars very quickly.
I think you are jousting with windmills below. I did not attempt to make a case for the Z06 except on the global bargain dimension. I agree with what you say about the M5, but not about the Z06. I am on your side, remember?
Sure, you could get a Z06 and based on MSRP come out about $15K in the black as compared to the M5 (good luck getting the Z06 at MSRP, by the way?
),MSRP, or less, on the Z06 will happen by the time I am interested, if ever. As mentioned/implied, I don't buy first-year cars. I bought my 02, a second-year car, well below MSRP. Incidentally, can you now get an M5 for MSRP or less?
but would the Vette be any kind of a daily driver?
Z06's are excellent for daily driving--at least the 01's through the 04's are. They are very mild-mannered unless unleashed, and I don't imagine that has changed with the new ones. I get 16.5 MPG in town with little freeway driving. I can get better MPG both in town and on the highway with my Z06 than with my 545i.
Would you really want to go buy groceries in it?
Why not? You open the trunk in both cars and put the groceries in behind the safety net, right?
Could you even pick up your toddlers in that thing?? Think about getting in and out of a Vette 6 or 7 times a day -- everyday!??
Car seats work in Z06's--but just for one toddler.? Fortunately, I no longer am in the toddler business. And, I have my 545i anyway. I have a bad hip, and I have no trouble at all in getting in and out of my Z06 any number of times per day. But, a Lotus Elise, well, that's a different story.
Conversely, the M5 could be a very suitable daily driver.? Sure, you wouldn't want to test out its 1/4 mile times with your young ones strapped in the backseat, but when the kids are safely tucked away at home with their PS2 console, well, then, you could unstrap the carseats and let it rip.?
Guess what I am getting at is that the M5 epitomizes the ultimate blend in practicality and performance, without sacrificing too much of either.? Sure, the price is steep, but you pay for what you get I suppose.
I agree with all you say above except the "conversely" part, the possible intimation that Z06's are not up to the BMW standard (but they are), and the idea that the price of an M5 is particularly steep. As indicated, I think M5s are bargains compared to their family members (550i's and 650i's).?
BTW, you can fully experience the M5 if you take one of the BMW Performance driving school at Spartansburg, SC.? You'll get your fill of throttling an M3 and M5? to your heart's content.? You can read about the details here.
Yes, I mentioned schools above. Is there a possible effect on the BMW warranty from doing one of the schools? Just curious.
Regardless, I've done both the Bondurant beginning and advanced courses. Still, I wouldn't want to try to "fully experience" a BMW I own on a track because of the large number of things that can go wrong. A minor example is if a car spins out in front of you, then you stand a good chance of getting sand/rock blasted. And, if one plays it safe to avoid crashes, etc., then he/she won't be able to experience even the max the school will allow. Incidentally, I was't thinking that experiencing an M5 fully enough for me would be a problem. As said, I get used to fast cars very quickly.
[snapback]185897[/snapback]
10-18-2005, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by donv' date='Oct 18 2005, 03:50 PM
[quote name='ipse dixit' date='Oct 18 2005, 05:11 PM']The allure of the M5 (as another poster aptly mentioned) is that it is the uber sports-sedan.
I think you are jousting with windmills below. I did not attempt to make a case for the Z06 except on the global bargain dimension. I agree with what you say about the M5, but not about the Z06. I am on your side, remember?
Sure, you could get a Z06 and based on MSRP come out about $15K in the black as compared to the M5 (good luck getting the Z06 at MSRP, by the way? ),
MSRP, or less, on the Z06 will happen by the time I am interested, if ever. As mentioned/implied, I don't buy first-year cars. I bought my 02, a second-year car, well below MSRP. Incidentally, can you now get an M5 for MSRP or less?
but would the Vette be any kind of a daily driver?
Z06's are excellent for daily driving--at least the 01's through the 04's are. They are very mild-mannered unless unleashed, and I don't imagine that has changed with the new ones. I get 16.5 MPG in town with little freeway driving. I can get better MPG both in town and on the highway with my Z06 than with my 545i.
Would you really want to go buy groceries in it?
Why not. You open the trunk in both cars and put the groceries in behind the safety net, right?
Could you even pick up your toddlers in that thing?? Think about getting in and out of a Vette 6 or 7 times a day -- everyday!?
Car seats work in Z06's--but just for one toddler.? Fortunately, I no longer am in the toddler business. And, I have my 545i anyway. I have a bad hip, and I have no trouble at all in getting in and out of my Z06 any number of times per day. But, a Lotus Elise, well, that's a different story.
Conversely, the M5 could be a very suitable daily driver.? Sure, you wouldn't want to test out its 1/4 mile times with your young ones strapped in the backseat, but when the kids are safely tucked away at home with their PS2 console, well, then, you could unstrap the carseats and let it rip.?
Guess what I am getting at is that the M5 epitomizes the ultimate blend in practicality and performance, without sacrificing too much of either.? Sure, the price is steep, but you pay for what you get I suppose.
I agree with all you say above except the "conversely" part, the possible intimation that Z06's are not up to the BMW standard (but they are), and the idea that the price of a M5 is particularly steep. As indicated, I think M5s are bargains compared to their family members (550i's and 650i's).?
BTW, you can fully experience the M5 if you take one of the BMW Performance driving school at Spartansburg, SC.? You'll get your fill of throttling an M3 and M5? to your heart's content.? You can read about the details here.
Yes, I mentioned schools above. Is there a possible effect on the BMW warranty from doing one of the schools? Just curious.
Regardless, I've done both the Bounderant beginning and advanced courses. Still, I wouldn't want to try to "fully experience" a BMW I own on a track because of the large number of things that can go wrong. A minor example is if a car spins out in front of you, then you stand a good chance of getting sand/rock blasted. And, if one plays it safe to avoid crashes, etc., then he/she won't be able to experience even the max the school will allow. Incidentally, I was't thinking that experiencing an M5 fully enough for me would be a problem. As said, I get used to fast cars very quickly.
I think you are jousting with windmills below. I did not attempt to make a case for the Z06 except on the global bargain dimension. I agree with what you say about the M5, but not about the Z06. I am on your side, remember?
Sure, you could get a Z06 and based on MSRP come out about $15K in the black as compared to the M5 (good luck getting the Z06 at MSRP, by the way?
),MSRP, or less, on the Z06 will happen by the time I am interested, if ever. As mentioned/implied, I don't buy first-year cars. I bought my 02, a second-year car, well below MSRP. Incidentally, can you now get an M5 for MSRP or less?
but would the Vette be any kind of a daily driver?
Z06's are excellent for daily driving--at least the 01's through the 04's are. They are very mild-mannered unless unleashed, and I don't imagine that has changed with the new ones. I get 16.5 MPG in town with little freeway driving. I can get better MPG both in town and on the highway with my Z06 than with my 545i.
Would you really want to go buy groceries in it?
Why not. You open the trunk in both cars and put the groceries in behind the safety net, right?
Could you even pick up your toddlers in that thing?? Think about getting in and out of a Vette 6 or 7 times a day -- everyday!?
Car seats work in Z06's--but just for one toddler.? Fortunately, I no longer am in the toddler business. And, I have my 545i anyway. I have a bad hip, and I have no trouble at all in getting in and out of my Z06 any number of times per day. But, a Lotus Elise, well, that's a different story.
Conversely, the M5 could be a very suitable daily driver.? Sure, you wouldn't want to test out its 1/4 mile times with your young ones strapped in the backseat, but when the kids are safely tucked away at home with their PS2 console, well, then, you could unstrap the carseats and let it rip.?
Guess what I am getting at is that the M5 epitomizes the ultimate blend in practicality and performance, without sacrificing too much of either.? Sure, the price is steep, but you pay for what you get I suppose.
I agree with all you say above except the "conversely" part, the possible intimation that Z06's are not up to the BMW standard (but they are), and the idea that the price of a M5 is particularly steep. As indicated, I think M5s are bargains compared to their family members (550i's and 650i's).?
BTW, you can fully experience the M5 if you take one of the BMW Performance driving school at Spartansburg, SC.? You'll get your fill of throttling an M3 and M5? to your heart's content.? You can read about the details here.
Yes, I mentioned schools above. Is there a possible effect on the BMW warranty from doing one of the schools? Just curious.
Regardless, I've done both the Bounderant beginning and advanced courses. Still, I wouldn't want to try to "fully experience" a BMW I own on a track because of the large number of things that can go wrong. A minor example is if a car spins out in front of you, then you stand a good chance of getting sand/rock blasted. And, if one plays it safe to avoid crashes, etc., then he/she won't be able to experience even the max the school will allow. Incidentally, I was't thinking that experiencing an M5 fully enough for me would be a problem. As said, I get used to fast cars very quickly.
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[/quote]donv, the whole point of the BMW driving school is you get to drive their (read: BMW's) cars and trash them to your heart's content!
Your car gets to stay safe and sound at home. 
10-18-2005, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ipse dixit' date='Oct 18 2005, 05:55 PM
[quote name='donv' date='Oct 18 2005, 03:50 PM'][quote name='ipse dixit' date='Oct 18 2005, 05:11 PM']The allure of the M5 (as another poster aptly mentioned) is that it is the uber sports-sedan.
I think you are jousting with windmills below. I did not attempt to make a case for the Z06 except on the global bargain dimension. I agree with what you say about the M5, but not about the Z06. I am on your side, remember?
Sure, you could get a Z06 and based on MSRP come out about $15K in the black as compared to the M5 (good luck getting the Z06 at MSRP, by the way? ),
MSRP, or less, on the Z06 will happen by the time I am interested, if ever. As mentioned/implied, I don't buy first-year cars. I bought my 02, a second-year car, well below MSRP. Incidentally, can you now get an M5 for MSRP or less?
but would the Vette be any kind of a daily driver?
Z06's are excellent for daily driving--at least the 01's through the 04's are. They are very mild-mannered unless unleashed, and I don't imagine that has changed with the new ones. I get 16.5 MPG in town with little freeway driving. I can get better MPG both in town and on the highway with my Z06 than with my 545i.
Would you really want to go buy groceries in it?
Why not? You open the trunk in both cars and put the groceries in behind the safety net, right?
Could you even pick up your toddlers in that thing?? Think about getting in and out of a Vette 6 or 7 times a day -- everyday!??
Car seats work in Z06's--but just for one toddler.? Fortunately, I no longer am in the toddler business. And, I have my 545i anyway. I have a bad hip, and I have no trouble at all in getting in and out of my Z06 any number of times per day. But, a Lotus Elise, well, that's a different story.
Conversely, the M5 could be a very suitable daily driver.? Sure, you wouldn't want to test out its 1/4 mile times with your young ones strapped in the backseat, but when the kids are safely tucked away at home with their PS2 console, well, then, you could unstrap the carseats and let it rip.?
Guess what I am getting at is that the M5 epitomizes the ultimate blend in practicality and performance, without sacrificing too much of either.? Sure, the price is steep, but you pay for what you get I suppose.
I agree with all you say above except the "conversely" part, the possible intimation that Z06's are not up to the BMW standard (but they are), and the idea that the price of a M5 is particularly steep. As indicated, I think M5s are bargains compared to their family members (550i's and 650i's).?
BTW, you can fully experience the M5 if you take one of the BMW Performance driving school at Spartansburg, SC.? You'll get your fill of throttling an M3 and M5? to your heart's content.? You can read about the details here.
Yes, I mentioned schools above. Is there a possible effect on the BMW warranty from doing one of the schools? Just curious.
Regardless, I've done both the Bondurant beginning and advanced courses. Still, I wouldn't want to try to "fully experience" a BMW I own on a track because of the large number of things that can go wrong. A minor example is if a car spins out in front of you, then you stand a good chance of getting sand/rock blasted. And, if one plays it safe to avoid crashes, etc., then he/she won't be able to experience even the max the school will allow. Incidentally, I was't thinking that experiencing an M5 fully enough for me would be a problem. As said, I get used to fast cars very quickly.
I think you are jousting with windmills below. I did not attempt to make a case for the Z06 except on the global bargain dimension. I agree with what you say about the M5, but not about the Z06. I am on your side, remember?
Sure, you could get a Z06 and based on MSRP come out about $15K in the black as compared to the M5 (good luck getting the Z06 at MSRP, by the way?
),MSRP, or less, on the Z06 will happen by the time I am interested, if ever. As mentioned/implied, I don't buy first-year cars. I bought my 02, a second-year car, well below MSRP. Incidentally, can you now get an M5 for MSRP or less?
but would the Vette be any kind of a daily driver?
Z06's are excellent for daily driving--at least the 01's through the 04's are. They are very mild-mannered unless unleashed, and I don't imagine that has changed with the new ones. I get 16.5 MPG in town with little freeway driving. I can get better MPG both in town and on the highway with my Z06 than with my 545i.
Would you really want to go buy groceries in it?
Why not? You open the trunk in both cars and put the groceries in behind the safety net, right?
Could you even pick up your toddlers in that thing?? Think about getting in and out of a Vette 6 or 7 times a day -- everyday!??
Car seats work in Z06's--but just for one toddler.? Fortunately, I no longer am in the toddler business. And, I have my 545i anyway. I have a bad hip, and I have no trouble at all in getting in and out of my Z06 any number of times per day. But, a Lotus Elise, well, that's a different story.
Conversely, the M5 could be a very suitable daily driver.? Sure, you wouldn't want to test out its 1/4 mile times with your young ones strapped in the backseat, but when the kids are safely tucked away at home with their PS2 console, well, then, you could unstrap the carseats and let it rip.?
Guess what I am getting at is that the M5 epitomizes the ultimate blend in practicality and performance, without sacrificing too much of either.? Sure, the price is steep, but you pay for what you get I suppose.
I agree with all you say above except the "conversely" part, the possible intimation that Z06's are not up to the BMW standard (but they are), and the idea that the price of a M5 is particularly steep. As indicated, I think M5s are bargains compared to their family members (550i's and 650i's).?
BTW, you can fully experience the M5 if you take one of the BMW Performance driving school at Spartansburg, SC.? You'll get your fill of throttling an M3 and M5? to your heart's content.? You can read about the details here.
Yes, I mentioned schools above. Is there a possible effect on the BMW warranty from doing one of the schools? Just curious.
Regardless, I've done both the Bondurant beginning and advanced courses. Still, I wouldn't want to try to "fully experience" a BMW I own on a track because of the large number of things that can go wrong. A minor example is if a car spins out in front of you, then you stand a good chance of getting sand/rock blasted. And, if one plays it safe to avoid crashes, etc., then he/she won't be able to experience even the max the school will allow. Incidentally, I was't thinking that experiencing an M5 fully enough for me would be a problem. As said, I get used to fast cars very quickly.
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[/quote]donv, the whole point of the BMW driving school is you get to drive their (read: BMW's) cars and trash them to your heart's content!
Your car gets to stay safe and sound at home. [snapback]185915[/snapback]
[/quote]Oh that's way better than I thought. I assume insurance is part of the cost of the school, right? I'll check out the link you posted. I might be interested except that I've had the opportunity to trash Bondurant's cars quite a few times.
11-20-2005, 08:15 PM
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now im having second doubts over my 650 
maybe i just should get a e55 than a 650...
maybe i just should get a e55 than a 650...
11-20-2005, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by m5lover' post='201274' date='Nov 21 2005, 12:15 AM
now im having second doubts over my 650
maybe i just should get a e55 than a 650...
maybe i just should get a e55 than a 650...
11-20-2005, 08:40 PM
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[/quote]
no offence but theres a lot of truth said in this thread about the 650i except the one that said it looks like some jap car
and to be honest,E55 is a good car...not bad to have one like that!
11-20-2005, 09:13 PM
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no offence but theres a lot of truth said in this thread about the 650i except the one that said it looks like some jap car
and to be honest,E55 is a good car...not bad to have one like that!
[/quote] I like both cars a lot. But, Japanese please. The Japs (a pejorative) are the guys that bombed Pearl Harbor; those guys don't exist any more.
11-21-2005, 07:53 AM
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no offence but theres a lot of truth said in this thread about the 650i except the one that said it looks like some jap car
and to be honest,E55 is a good car...not bad to have one like that!
[/quote]
Yes, the E55 is a good car and it's also good to see you're not blinded by the "everything BMW" attitude. Realistically, both manufacturers have their fair share of mechanical issues; both are able to build great cars as well.
Think about what your needs are. You're deciding between two vehicles built for different purposes (albeit closely priced).
Originally Posted by vnod' post='201280' date='Nov 20 2005, 11:21 PM
[quote name='m5lover' post='201274' date='Nov 21 2005, 12:15 AM']
now im having second doubts over my 650
maybe i just should get a e55 than a 650...
now im having second doubts over my 650
maybe i just should get a e55 than a 650...
no offence but theres a lot of truth said in this thread about the 650i except the one that said it looks like some jap car
and to be honest,E55 is a good car...not bad to have one like that!
[/quote] I like both cars a lot. But, Japanese please. The Japs (a pejorative) are the guys that bombed Pearl Harbor; those guys don't exist any more.
[/quote]
Well stated.