Fastest round a track!
10-25-2005, 02:20 AM
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So I saw the show where the BMW F1 car raced the BMW M5?and I was thinking well is it the best comparison? Shouldn?t it be the M3 CSL in there? Of course the M5 is a faster car on a straight, and it has a lot more technology than the csl, and it comes with a V10 ?just like? (big commas) a F1 engine, it has the 7spd SMG III but it weighs a lot more than the M3 CSL. In fact a better car for sure would have been the M6 which is lighter. Don't get me wrong, obviously any production car that bmw makes at the moment doesn't stand a chance with FW27 on the track.
Anyway my question is: what car do you think it would be faster around a track (normal track, not too twisty but also not too speedy) between an M3 CSL and an M5? The power to weight ratio is :
M3 CSL 360bhp/1385 = 0.259927
M5 507bhp/1821 = 0.278418
Obviously this result has to be as high as possible. But it?s just a simple factor, on the track there are other important factors like: suspension setup, tires, body style, drag coef and so on?.and most of all are in favor of the CSL because it more of a track car.
So what?s your opinion?
Anyway my question is: what car do you think it would be faster around a track (normal track, not too twisty but also not too speedy) between an M3 CSL and an M5? The power to weight ratio is :
M3 CSL 360bhp/1385 = 0.259927
M5 507bhp/1821 = 0.278418
Obviously this result has to be as high as possible. But it?s just a simple factor, on the track there are other important factors like: suspension setup, tires, body style, drag coef and so on?.and most of all are in favor of the CSL because it more of a track car.
So what?s your opinion?
10-25-2005, 02:48 AM
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It depends on the track. On a track like TopGear's, which has long straights, the M5 has a better track time than the M3 CSL (1:26.2 to 1:28:00). But on a twisty track, like Bedford Autodrome which is used by EVO 
, I guess the CSL will certainly record a better track time.
, I guess the CSL will certainly record a better track time.
10-25-2005, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Shebs' date='Oct 25 2005, 05:48 AM
It depends on the track. On a track like TopGear's, which has long straights, the M5 has a better track time than the M3 CSL (1:26.2 to 1:28:00). But on a twisty track, like Bedford Autodrome which is used by EVO , I guess the CSL will certainly record a better track time.
, I guess the CSL will certainly record a better track time.[snapback]188349[/snapback]
....and that's why i told a normal track...not a high speed one, not a super twisty one, one that has both....
10-25-2005, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by BetterMakeWay' date='Oct 25 2005, 02:23 PM
....and that's why i told a normal track...not a high speed one, not a super twisty one, one that has both....[snapback]188357[/snapback]
. That is why I answered that it depends on the track. So do you consider TopGear's to be a normal one? If so, then the M5 is faster around a normal track. Was that the answer you were waiting for 
?So why don't you enlighten us on what exactly is a normal track
. What would the percentages of curves to straights be? What would be the radius of curvature for each curve? What is the order of the curves? Would there be a right curve then a left one or the opposite? Would it contain Chicanes? Should it include hairpins? And so on.....
10-25-2005, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Shebs' date='Oct 25 2005, 06:40 AM
[quote name='BetterMakeWay' date='Oct 25 2005, 02:23 PM'] ....and that's why i told a normal track...not a high speed one, not a super twisty one, one that has both....
....and that's why i told a normal track...not a high speed one, not a super twisty one, one that has both....[snapback]188357[/snapback]
. That is why I answered that it depends on the track. So do you consider TopGear's to be a normal one? If so, then the M5 is faster around a normal track. Was that the answer you were waiting for ?So why don't you enlighten us on what exactly is a normal track
. What would the percentages of curves to straights be? What would be the radius of curvature for each curve? What is the order of the curves? Would there be a right curve then a left one or the opposite? Would it contain Chicanes? Should it include hairpins? And so on.....[snapback]188361[/snapback]
[/quote]Ok...i got your point...i don't know the famous tracks to well, if i had known i would have just pointed one as an example. So ok 1 harpin, a chicane, a few corners on the right , a few on the left ...more than 120 degrees let's say...and a few straights but not too long only one would have to be quite long more than 1,5 km let's say....dunno if a appreciated right but hey....if i would have said speedy one i would have pointed monza and i would have already known the winner. Also if i would have pointed a track that's got alot of corners, and chicanes and hairpins i also would have known the winner.
Don't try to find perfect normal track....your asking me to describe in too many details....maybe u wish to know the width of the 1st left corner and the length of the chicane and the....
10-25-2005, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by BetterMakeWay' date='Oct 25 2005, 11:48 AM
[quote name='Shebs' date='Oct 25 2005, 06:40 AM'][quote name='BetterMakeWay' date='Oct 25 2005, 02:23 PM'] ....and that's why i told a normal track...not a high speed one, not a super twisty one, one that has both....
....and that's why i told a normal track...not a high speed one, not a super twisty one, one that has both....[snapback]188357[/snapback]
. That is why I answered that it depends on the track. So do you consider TopGear's to be a normal one? If so, then the M5 is faster around a normal track. Was that the answer you were waiting for ?So why don't you enlighten us on what exactly is a normal track
. What would the percentages of curves to straights be? What would be the radius of curvature for each curve? What is the order of the curves? Would there be a right curve then a left one or the opposite? Would it contain Chicanes? Should it include hairpins? And so on.....[snapback]188361[/snapback]
[/quote]Ok...i got your point...[/quote]
Either way, it would be great fun finding out!!!!
10-25-2005, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BetterMakeWay' date='Oct 25 2005, 02:48 PM
Don't try to find perfect normal track....your asking me to describe in too many details....maybe u wish to know the width of the 1st left corner and the length of the chicane and the....
[snapback]188363[/snapback]
. Just Kidding.Now here are three well known tracks
1. Imola
2. Oschersleben
3. Valencia
If you look on their structure you will find that the first track, Imola, best suits fast cars. That is why Alfa Romeos defeats BMWs on this track in the WTCC because the rear wheel drive BMWs have better handling but lower speed.
Track 2, Oschersleben, is exactly the opposite as it appears clearly in its structure.
Track 3, Valencia, is what you are looking for IMO. It is very balanced between high speed corners and short radius curves.
So:
Track 1, the M5
Track 2, CSL
Track 3, I guess the M5, but I don't know for sure.
I hope this info was useful.
Cheers
.
10-25-2005, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Shebs' date='Oct 25 2005, 12:18 PM
[quote name='BetterMakeWay' date='Oct 25 2005, 02:48 PM']Don't try to find perfect normal track....your asking me to describe in too many details....maybe u wish to know the width of the 1st left corner and the length of the chicane and the....
[/quote]
Would that be because of the transmission losses sending the power to the rear?
10-25-2005, 04:57 AM
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My Ride: In a place where the Mercedes density is the highest in the world (no. of MB per square kilometer) I choose a Bimmer, why? because of one thing "The Ultimate Driving Experience"
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How about Suzuka, that's a beautiful track.