BetterMakeWay

Loved the willy stuff...

I can't agree more with your last statement.

0700700

1. Not driving/owning an amg product, i do not enjoy going on the mbworld forum
2. The m5 retails for 61,775? , the sl55 amg is 99,700?. I can pretty much guarantee that
a lot of people can afford an m5 , but not an sl55 amg. At least in my country since we buy cars
outright.
3. Forget the SLR

4. The SLK55 AMG black series, is a race-tuned stripped out hardcore GT, identical to the Pace car in F1. It has 400bhp and 520nm from an NA engine, and weighs around 1450kg. 0-60mph in 4.4s and a steering to die for, and quicker than the m6 at the ring.
http://carrospt.blogspot.com/2006/07/slk-5...ack-series.html
http://www.babez.de/mercedes/mercedes-benz...lack-series.php

5.Mercedes-Benz CLK DTM AMG. At around ?120000 , it is twice as cheap as an SLR, nevertheless delivers 0-60mph in less than 4 seconds , and besides that it can lap the ring quicker than any production BMW, including the M3 GTR (S-spec)...


Anyways, what im trying to state is that you appear to put all MB products in the same category, but fail to recognise that they have some cars in their catalogue, bar the SLR, which are better and more involving machines to drive than an m5. Do you want to tell me that given the chance you would prefer to have an m5 to a CLK DTM AMG coupe ?

And on a side note , out of interest has your car completely died on you? I think it has (hint m5board.com) ... How much pleasure can you get if your car is constantly breaking apart? thus far there has been 1 reported case worldwide, of an 63AMG engine dying, and that was because the dealer forgot to fill it up with oil...

Moral of the story, just because you own something doesnt mean its the dog's bollocks. There are always better things out there

and no, i dont find the need to compare my manhood with other people

0700700

oh and p.s. http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos.cfm/...s-more-audi-rs6

i thought they werent going to release an RS6?

w8pmc

Where exactly did i say that the M5 is the DOGS BOLLOCKS??

I stated it's the best performance saloon i know of. A race tuned & stripped out SLK is hardly a functional 4 door saloon & the CLK DTM which is a Merc i really like, is again basically a race prepared car. Failing to see how they can be included in the mainstream & vs an M5. Can't say the CLK DTM is a functional family car & TBH although i do like them it aint that nice looking & i couldn't own one due to no rear seats.

For the record, how is a medium sized 4dr family saloon in the same class as a small 2dr convertible or a larde 2dr convertible or a medium sized 2dr coupe??

Price difference between SL55 & M5 is very spec dependant but i could easily buy a new SL55 for only about ?8K more than my M5 cost new.

CLK DTM can no doubt get round the Ring faster than any production BMW but faster than the M3 GTR?? You're talking out of your arse. IIRC the GTR is either the 3rd or 4th quickest car in history around the Ring. In fact i was watching a couple in the VLN series when i was over their a few weeks ago.

You threw open this debate with the SL55 & i've told you many times that i've driven both older & newer SL55's & they are not even close to as involving a drive as the M5 & i'd state that even if i owned an SL55. I also confirm that in a 0-60 shootout their's virtually nothing between the cars, however in a 50-150 the M5 will always win (tried & tested many times). Throw in some corners & hard braking & i'm afraid the SL would start to look well beaten (driver ability equal) & that again is tried & tested.

The SL65 is a different kettle of fish & your fresh arguement about race prepared Mercs is comical if nothing else. If i stripped out my M5 to the bare bones shedding say 600KG's then i'd still be happy to play, but that defeats the 4dr performance saloon logic.

Please if trying to come back with a valid point, then keep it relative, as i know my M5 is not as quick as a 997 Turbo or GT3 round a track & i know an SL65 would kill me in a drag race. The M5 also can't keep up with F1 cars, DTM cars, NASCAR or Drag Racers.

As for my car, YES the TRANSMISSION failed (that's not the engine in case you're confused) & yes SMG boxes have had problems, but don't you just know that new cutting edge technology can give rise to faults. I'm not happy my SMG failed, but then i am happy i drive an SMG & not a Slush Box Auto as i know which one has it's roots in racing & it aint the Merc Auto.

Tell me you're joking that YOU'D actually know how many 63AMG cars had failed?? I know of 5 in the UK & that's only info gleaned from 2 dealers i know. Not all 5 failures were identical, but it's 4 more than you know about Worldwide.

Finally the RS6. I stated that i'd been told by a Quattro GmBH insider that to date he'd not been involved in any development work for an RS6 & if an RS6 were in production, he'd very very likely either be involved or at the very least know about it. As of last week he'd no knowledge so i'm happy to assume at this stage all we read are rumours. I'm 1st on the list with my Audi Dealer should a new RS6 go into production, so i very much hope they do produce the model, however speculation is just that.

As you possibly already know if you troll the boards, i have a 997 Turbo on order for March 2008 that depending on circumstance i'm very much looking forward to owning & i don't think that car is the best car in the world, but i do believe it's closer to that accolade than the M5 & certainly the mainstream AMG's. I'm also on the lookout right now for an SL65 & if i find one for the right money i'm considering a move into one of those to bridge the gap between my possible M5 sale in April 07 & the 997TT coming in March 08, so their's a Merc i must like if i'm considering buying one.

Thank you very much for listening.

BetterMakeWay

Ok...stoped reading exactly at w8pmc remark about the CLK DTM vs the M3 GTR. Although i don't know the exact times but WTF...i saw what an M3 GTR is, and that's a racing car 100% not like the CLK DTM which is a road car race ready, pretty much like the 911 GT3 RS. I don't see how it can be possibly quicker than that M3 GTR. Hans Stuck was really flying in that lap with the GTR....and i bet that's no where near a clk dtm.

Ok back to reading...sorry but that really poped into my eye.

"As for my car, YES the TRANSMISSION failed (that's not the engine in case you're confused) & yes SMG boxes have had problems, but don't you just know that new cutting edge technology can give rise to faults. I'm not happy my SMG failed, but then i am happy i drive an SMG & not a Slush Box Auto as i know which one has it's roots in racing & it aint the Merc Auto."

How true...and indeed you are lucky you get to drive the best gearbox bmw has to offer, and one of the best in the world. I now wish so much that i had the extra 30K when i bought my 535d...as a non-M SMG would never do for me combined with the upper petrol models.

cidair

w8pmc:

I told you he likes to stir things up. Not really contributing to this, otherwise, nice and informative section IMO.

530i_msport

Come on 700700.w8pmc is right.The clk dtm is not in the same category as all the Mercedeses you mentioned.As Paul said they are stripped down versions of a normal car.Let BMW strip down the m5 and m6 and then and only then we will be able to talk about a competition between those.

i dont know about the m3 gtr but taking into account what BMW said about it being a total race car i dont think it will be slower than the clk dtm.

Please try to keep things relative and dont compare cars totally different.Those Mercedeses wouldnt take me nowhere with my family as fast as a m5 would.In fact i would have to go back and forth to transport everyone at the place (some humor to calm ourselves )

w8pmc

I already knew that, just this time i fancied biting.

Just a little tired of people posting pointless crap just to stir up trouble (not just 700700) but he got my back up with the inane AMG are so much better than M. On an AMG board they probably care, on an M board they don't & that's nothing to do with brand loyalty.

The only point he's correct on (to some degree) is the weakness M5's have with the bloody SMGIII. Fortunatley most that have failed have had the SMG Hydraulic system replaced & that appears to have fixed all these problems (their have been many owners with iffy SMG's). Also looks as though BMW will recall within the next 3 months as they're starting to get bad press about this & they deserve bad press. When my box went in dire circumstances, i was tempted to have the car dropped off at BMW UK & demand a complete refund. BMW did however make me a sweet offer (???) & replaced the failed unit for the stronger revised system & it feels top drawer. That's the price you pay for bleeding edge technology (SMGIII).

As a side note, my comment about slush boxes was in no way a dig at any Auto's (including Mercs), as i had Steptronic in my 535d & Tiptronic in my RS6 & i thought thy were cracking, but as far as excitement & involvement go, i've driven nothing that even comes close to SMGIII, even with it's early problems.

Lastly, i've a sneaky feeling he's gonna come back with confirmation on the CLK DTM vs M3 GTR Ring lap times & i beleive he may be right with a huge MAY, as he'll be refering to the actual CLK DTM Race Cars that compete (several of them in fact) in the DTM race series. Those being out & out race cars costing over $1Million, not the $200K AMG version that he's trying to quote.

Some of the stuff he posts is useful, some of it interesting, but some of it just plain crap that's usually found to be posted by trolls.

0700700

My whole posts, resolved around the fact that you stated that the only comparable car that mercedes-benz produces, to the m5 in particular, in terms of handling is the SLR... Which as you may know, is not your typical nor practical family car. It has two doors, and is a stripped down (although that term and mercedes dont quite mix) racer. I pointed to you that there are at least two other cars (with the inevitable CLK63 AMG black series being a third), that meet your criteria, and are 2-3 times cheaper than an Mercedes-Mclaren SLR.


As for my comment on the GTR, please look at the attached picture. The car on the left is called a Street-specification M3 GTR, and it differs a lot from a RACE-spec M3 GTR. The CLK DTM AMG is faster than the street spec, it has recorded a
7:54s time from Auto motor und sport, and a
7:48s time from Autobild germany, RUNNING on legal tires.

As for the SL55 vs m5 debate, i have only driven both for very short timespans, and i do not claim to have a definite answer , but i myself completely love the supercharged merc. That said , i wouldnt mind an m5. As for the price , i took out a copy of autotrader today , and hell i cant get the same price on a new SL55 as you. Looking at prices i got from back home today, the M5 retails for 104000euro, the SL55amg for 157200euro (base prices). Nevertheless , i find this irrelevant

I dont know why you bring the SL65 into the argument, as it is hardly race-prepped with its 2150kg kerb weight.

For the 63AMG info, go to mbworld, where there is a running tally of the statistics of how many engines have failed. Just as there is a tally of the number of engine and gearbox failures on m5board.com ... I stopped counting at 200. I do believe that the boards give you a far better estimate then would dealers, as they are frequented by enthusiasits, who have no desire to hide information about their car's reliabiliy.

And as for the 997 Turbo, i can only praise the car , it is a fantastic car.

w8pmc

You're back tracking, but you'd have to.

I did not bring the SL65 into the argument, merely stated that i like that model very much & have my eye out for one.

As for handling, i've never driven the CLK DTM so out of the Mercs i have driven, the only one with handling i would call outstanding is the SLR. Of course the M5 is not in the same league & i never said it was, but for driver involvement, chassis poise, braking & handling, none of the other AMG or Merc's appear to handle as well (i'm no expert though, just experienced).

I started the Poll on M5 Board & i think you'll find it's SMG failures you're hearing about, i only know of a couple of Engine failures which would be on a par with the 63. Said a few times that the 1st SMGIII's appear to have been flawed in some way & BMW are making ammends. This is bad of BMW, but shit happens & its bleeding edge F1 derived technology (not something AMG can claim).

Could i buy one of those Street Spec M3 GTR's from my local BMW dealer here in the UK?? I've never heard of it & never seen one anywhere (or heard of a roadtest on one). It's hardly apples vs apples though. Maybe it was a very limited production in Germany. No idea why you enjoy taking any debate so far off topic it becomes difficult to respond, apples vs apples AMG only do the E or S that's available as a saloon & neither of those variants has the smae high standard of handling as the M5 & that's fact. The lighter coupes are better than the AMG saloons & the 2dr rag tops better again (due to their weight dropping), but they're not 4dr saloons.

Finally on SL55 pricing, i've been offered a very high spec unregistered car for just over ?80K (cancelled order) & my M5 list price new with all her options was ?73K so not a huge difference in price had i thought the SL55 was better than the M5. It is different but certainly not a better driving machine & all-round performer. The SL65 is proving harder to source a good value 2nd hand example. Their are very few about & although prices are now falling with the arrival of the 63 it may be a few months before i find one.

I too am looking forward to the arrival of my 997 Turbo, assuming everything stacks up.