VERY Useful HID Information
08-01-2009, 10:52 PM
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This information came from my experience, knowledge, and also reading upon MANY different websites.
What is HID?
HID stands for High Intensity Discharge which is many times also known as xenon lights due to the gas inside the bulb. Well, Xenon gas is a type of halogen. Remember the periodic table guys? and girls? Instead of using a filament, HID bulbs create light by igniting an arc over two electrodes. Color of ANY lights are measured in a temperature known as Kelvin (K) while luminous flux (can think of as light output) is measured in Lumens (lm).
HIDs typically run on 35 watts while halogens run on 55 watts. The lower draw of current means it will have lower temperatures but that doesnt mean it will not burn your hand if you touch the bulb while it's hot. If you touch a cool HID bulb with bare hands, remember to get some rubbing alcohol and wipe it down so you do not pre-maturely burn it out. While it draws less current, it takes about 23000 volts to start it. That's why the ballasts are needed to fire it up. After it's fired up, it takes about 90v to keep it going. HIDs are approximately three times brighter than halogens.
Reason for error messages in the dashboard is due to the signal of inconsistent electrical readings from HIDs. You'll need resistors and/or capacitors or with my kit, the ballasts are digital and made especially for European cars. All electronics are built-in including ignitors, CAN-BUS electronics, etc.
Brightness of HID Explained:
Color Temperature measured in Kelvin (K) is NOT the brightness of the light. It's only simply the color of the bulb. Noon-daylight is approximately 5500K, so in reality, 6000K bulbs should be the brightest for the human eye. Below is a few color temps for comparison. Many color temps such as 4500K, 5000K, 7000K is not discussed due to the fact that the color is so close to the other ones there's not really a definite explanation.
3000K - Golden Amber Yellowish - provides the BEST penetration of light for snow, fogs, rain, etc. Emits approx 2800 lm
4300K - OEM HID White - it is not PURE white but has a light yellowish hue to it when the light reflects off the ground. Emits the MOST lumens at 3200 lm. Supposedly to be the brightest of them all.
6000K - Pure White with small small hints of blue at certain angles - Some argues that this provides 3400 lm, some argue 3000 lm, and some argue 3100 lm. I believe they produce closer to 3200 lm. This light is the brightest look to the human eye and provides the best lighting IMO. Why 6000K did not come from factory or 5500K did not come from factory really beats me. I kinda hate the 4300K look. Either 5000K to 6000K would be the best.
8000K - White with some blue - Emits approx 2800 lm to 3000 lm
10000K - White with some Blue and Purple - Emits 2600 lm to 2800 lm
12000K - Deep Bluish and Purplish Color - Emits 2400 lm to 2600 lm
20000K - Deep Blue - Emits 2000 lm to 2200 lm (I think as per approximate calculations)
Regular Halogen Bulbs emit approximately 3200K with only 1000 lumens. Hence the ugly yellowish low output lighting. Anything over 6000K may look brighter but that is definitely not the case. Whatever color you choose definitely depends on your personal preference. This is merely a guide to help you understand which color temperature you most likely will choose when you can't decide. I hope this was useful. Feel free to post some questions.
What is HID?
HID stands for High Intensity Discharge which is many times also known as xenon lights due to the gas inside the bulb. Well, Xenon gas is a type of halogen. Remember the periodic table guys? and girls? Instead of using a filament, HID bulbs create light by igniting an arc over two electrodes. Color of ANY lights are measured in a temperature known as Kelvin (K) while luminous flux (can think of as light output) is measured in Lumens (lm).
HIDs typically run on 35 watts while halogens run on 55 watts. The lower draw of current means it will have lower temperatures but that doesnt mean it will not burn your hand if you touch the bulb while it's hot. If you touch a cool HID bulb with bare hands, remember to get some rubbing alcohol and wipe it down so you do not pre-maturely burn it out. While it draws less current, it takes about 23000 volts to start it. That's why the ballasts are needed to fire it up. After it's fired up, it takes about 90v to keep it going. HIDs are approximately three times brighter than halogens.
Reason for error messages in the dashboard is due to the signal of inconsistent electrical readings from HIDs. You'll need resistors and/or capacitors or with my kit, the ballasts are digital and made especially for European cars. All electronics are built-in including ignitors, CAN-BUS electronics, etc.
Brightness of HID Explained:
Color Temperature measured in Kelvin (K) is NOT the brightness of the light. It's only simply the color of the bulb. Noon-daylight is approximately 5500K, so in reality, 6000K bulbs should be the brightest for the human eye. Below is a few color temps for comparison. Many color temps such as 4500K, 5000K, 7000K is not discussed due to the fact that the color is so close to the other ones there's not really a definite explanation.
3000K - Golden Amber Yellowish - provides the BEST penetration of light for snow, fogs, rain, etc. Emits approx 2800 lm
4300K - OEM HID White - it is not PURE white but has a light yellowish hue to it when the light reflects off the ground. Emits the MOST lumens at 3200 lm. Supposedly to be the brightest of them all.
6000K - Pure White with small small hints of blue at certain angles - Some argues that this provides 3400 lm, some argue 3000 lm, and some argue 3100 lm. I believe they produce closer to 3200 lm. This light is the brightest look to the human eye and provides the best lighting IMO. Why 6000K did not come from factory or 5500K did not come from factory really beats me. I kinda hate the 4300K look. Either 5000K to 6000K would be the best.
8000K - White with some blue - Emits approx 2800 lm to 3000 lm
10000K - White with some Blue and Purple - Emits 2600 lm to 2800 lm
12000K - Deep Bluish and Purplish Color - Emits 2400 lm to 2600 lm
20000K - Deep Blue - Emits 2000 lm to 2200 lm (I think as per approximate calculations)
Regular Halogen Bulbs emit approximately 3200K with only 1000 lumens. Hence the ugly yellowish low output lighting. Anything over 6000K may look brighter but that is definitely not the case. Whatever color you choose definitely depends on your personal preference. This is merely a guide to help you understand which color temperature you most likely will choose when you can't decide. I hope this was useful. Feel free to post some questions.
08-02-2009, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by brabusw209amg' post='962610' date='Aug 1 2009, 11:52 PM
Brightness of HID Explained:
Color Temperature measured in Kelvin (K) is NOT the brightness of the light. It's only simply the color of the bulb. Noon-daylight is approximately 5500K, so in reality, 6000K bulbs should be the brightest for the human eye. Below is a few color temps for comparison. Many color temps such as 4500K, 5000K, 7000K is not discussed due to the fact that the color is so close to the other ones there's not really a definite explanation.
3000K - Golden Amber Yellowish - provides the BEST penetration of light for snow, fogs, rain, etc. Emits approx 2800 lm
4300K - OEM HID White - it is not PURE white but has a light yellowish hue to it when the light reflects off the ground. Emits the MOST lumens at 3200 lm. Supposedly to be the brightest of them all.
6000K - Pure White with small small hints of blue at certain angles - Some argues that this provides 3400 lm, some argue 3000 lm, and some argue 3100 lm. I believe they produce closer to 3200 lm. This light is the brightest look to the human eye and provides the best lighting IMO. Why 6000K did not come from factory or 5500K did not come from factory really beats me. I kinda hate the 4300K look. Either 5000K to 6000K would be the best.
8000K - White with some blue - Emits approx 2800 lm to 3000 lm
10000K - White with some Blue and Purple - Emits 2600 lm to 2800 lm
12000K - Deep Bluish and Purplish Color - Emits 2400 lm to 2600 lm
20000K - Deep Blue - Emits 2000 lm to 2200 lm (I think as per approximate calculations)
Regular Halogen Bulbs emit approximately 3200K with only 1000 lumens. Hence the ugly yellowish low output lighting. Anything over 6000K may look brighter but that is definitely not the case. Whatever color you choose definitely depends on your personal preference. This is merely a guide to help you understand which color temperature you most likely will choose when you can't decide. I hope this was useful. Feel free to post some questions.
Color Temperature measured in Kelvin (K) is NOT the brightness of the light. It's only simply the color of the bulb. Noon-daylight is approximately 5500K, so in reality, 6000K bulbs should be the brightest for the human eye. Below is a few color temps for comparison. Many color temps such as 4500K, 5000K, 7000K is not discussed due to the fact that the color is so close to the other ones there's not really a definite explanation.
3000K - Golden Amber Yellowish - provides the BEST penetration of light for snow, fogs, rain, etc. Emits approx 2800 lm
4300K - OEM HID White - it is not PURE white but has a light yellowish hue to it when the light reflects off the ground. Emits the MOST lumens at 3200 lm. Supposedly to be the brightest of them all.
6000K - Pure White with small small hints of blue at certain angles - Some argues that this provides 3400 lm, some argue 3000 lm, and some argue 3100 lm. I believe they produce closer to 3200 lm. This light is the brightest look to the human eye and provides the best lighting IMO. Why 6000K did not come from factory or 5500K did not come from factory really beats me. I kinda hate the 4300K look. Either 5000K to 6000K would be the best.
8000K - White with some blue - Emits approx 2800 lm to 3000 lm
10000K - White with some Blue and Purple - Emits 2600 lm to 2800 lm
12000K - Deep Bluish and Purplish Color - Emits 2400 lm to 2600 lm
20000K - Deep Blue - Emits 2000 lm to 2200 lm (I think as per approximate calculations)
Regular Halogen Bulbs emit approximately 3200K with only 1000 lumens. Hence the ugly yellowish low output lighting. Anything over 6000K may look brighter but that is definitely not the case. Whatever color you choose definitely depends on your personal preference. This is merely a guide to help you understand which color temperature you most likely will choose when you can't decide. I hope this was useful. Feel free to post some questions.
Lots of great info, thanks for sharing.
For what it's worth though, daylight should be D65, which is 6500k with specific blue, green, and red points. Because the red/green/blue points in automotive xenon lighting tends to be different from the reference standards, 6500k in the automotive world has a blue bias.
Regular 55w halogen bulbs actually put out a varying amount of light. It depends on the bulb. You can see how much they vary here:
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bu...bulb_types.html
For instance, the H7 bulb puts out 1450 lumens. High efficiency versions put out upwards of 1600-1700 lumens at the same wattage.
The total output of a lighting system depends on both the bulb and the lens. Putting a high output bulb with a different hot point (ie. HID) into a lens designed for filament bulbs will often decrease the amount of useful light thrown. Only testing will tell you for sure.
08-02-2009, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by NobleForums' post='963251' date='Aug 2 2009, 09:26 PM
Lots of great info, thanks for sharing.
For what it's worth though, daylight should be D65, which is 6500k with specific blue, green, and red points. Because the red/green/blue points in automotive xenon lighting tends to be different from the reference standards, 6500k in the automotive world has a blue bias.
Regular 55w halogen bulbs actually put out a varying amount of light. It depends on the bulb. You can see how much they vary here:
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bu...bulb_types.html
For instance, the H7 bulb puts out 1450 lumens. High efficiency versions put out upwards of 1600-1700 lumens at the same wattage.
The total output of a lighting system depends on both the bulb and the lens. Putting a high output bulb with a different hot point (ie. HID) into a lens designed for filament bulbs will often decrease the amount of useful light thrown. Only testing will tell you for sure.
For what it's worth though, daylight should be D65, which is 6500k with specific blue, green, and red points. Because the red/green/blue points in automotive xenon lighting tends to be different from the reference standards, 6500k in the automotive world has a blue bias.
Regular 55w halogen bulbs actually put out a varying amount of light. It depends on the bulb. You can see how much they vary here:
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bu...bulb_types.html
For instance, the H7 bulb puts out 1450 lumens. High efficiency versions put out upwards of 1600-1700 lumens at the same wattage.
The total output of a lighting system depends on both the bulb and the lens. Putting a high output bulb with a different hot point (ie. HID) into a lens designed for filament bulbs will often decrease the amount of useful light thrown. Only testing will tell you for sure.
If anyone is running halogens, do not go over 55 watts as you may melt some wiring.
08-02-2009, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by NobleForums' post='963251' date='Aug 2 2009, 09:26 PM
Lots of great info, thanks for sharing.
For what it's worth though, daylight should be D65, which is 6500k with specific blue, green, and red points. Because the red/green/blue points in automotive xenon lighting tends to be different from the reference standards, 6500k in the automotive world has a blue bias.
Regular 55w halogen bulbs actually put out a varying amount of light. It depends on the bulb. You can see how much they vary here:
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bu...bulb_types.html
For instance, the H7 bulb puts out 1450 lumens. High efficiency versions put out upwards of 1600-1700 lumens at the same wattage.
The total output of a lighting system depends on both the bulb and the lens. Putting a high output bulb with a different hot point (ie. HID) into a lens designed for filament bulbs will often decrease the amount of useful light thrown. Only testing will tell you for sure.
For what it's worth though, daylight should be D65, which is 6500k with specific blue, green, and red points. Because the red/green/blue points in automotive xenon lighting tends to be different from the reference standards, 6500k in the automotive world has a blue bias.
Regular 55w halogen bulbs actually put out a varying amount of light. It depends on the bulb. You can see how much they vary here:
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bu...bulb_types.html
For instance, the H7 bulb puts out 1450 lumens. High efficiency versions put out upwards of 1600-1700 lumens at the same wattage.
The total output of a lighting system depends on both the bulb and the lens. Putting a high output bulb with a different hot point (ie. HID) into a lens designed for filament bulbs will often decrease the amount of useful light thrown. Only testing will tell you for sure.
08-02-2009, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by brabusw209amg' post='963335' date='Aug 2 2009, 07:47 PM
thanks for more clarification! If anyone is running halogens, do not go over 55 watts as you may melt some wiring.
If anyone is running halogens, do not go over 55 watts as you may melt some wiring.You're welcome.
From what I've seen, stock wiring tends to be overbuilt by a bit. TENDS, not always. This, you can go up by a little and not have to worry too much. Going up by a lot will tend to cause problems.
In the old days, people used to "upgrade" their 55w H4 bulbs to 100w. This would often melt wiring. However, the 85w choices seemed to work without destroying anything.
These days, with the complexity of car electrical systems, I think it's probably safer to limit overwattage bulbs to 10w or so. For instance, taking a look at the 55w H7 above, you can expect 1450 lumens or so. However, you can probably safely go up to a 65w Osram H7 bulb that puts out 2100 lumens, almost 1/3 more output. If you're not comfortable with going up 10w, you can go with Osram's ultra high efficiency model, the NightBreaker +90, which will give you a bit whiter light and close to the output of that 65w model. Unfortunately, Philips doesn't make a Xtreme Power +80 bulb in that size (testing shows the Xtreme Power tends to put out just slightly more light than the NightBreaker). My guess would be given a lens designed for an H7, you'll actually get more usable light in the area that is supposed to be illuminated out of one of these 2100 lumen bulbs than from a 3200 lumen HID installed in there.
Side note... for my Angel Eyes, in place of the stock 35w H8 bulb, I'm using an Osram NightBreaker 55w H11 bulb. Despite the huge 57% increase in wattage, I've thus far seen no error messages nor problems with heat or wiring. While this is probably not wise to try for every application, it seemed to work here, at least so far. I keep an eye on it just in case though.