Seriously, $2400 for a cat back exhaust?
04-30-2010, 07:22 AM
#11
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youre not paying massive markup, have you ever manufactured anything? I have. Its grossly expensive at start up and doesnt really get any cheaper. They only people that truly benefit are the retailers because you can increase the MSRP but the production costs generally are the same unless you source the same supplies elswhere.
If the exhaust costs $800 at MSRP, retailers get less 60% off that. A good profit margin for RPI to sell it to retailers is if it holds a profit of 30-35%. So RPI has to sell the exhaust to retailers for $240 to get any return.
You say you were able to get it down to $610 right? Ok so $610-240=$370 in profit for the retailer. This doesnt include shipping costs, overhead, employee pay, state business taxes, internet fees, phone bills, insurance for the building and stock. When you factor all of those in, the retailers are probably pulling around $170 or so in pure profit at the end of the pipeline.
Does this sound lucrative to you? It's not. Its a niche market for 530i exhausts, be glad we have a good performing exhaust that is a real winner for under $1000.
/endrant
If the exhaust costs $800 at MSRP, retailers get less 60% off that. A good profit margin for RPI to sell it to retailers is if it holds a profit of 30-35%. So RPI has to sell the exhaust to retailers for $240 to get any return.
You say you were able to get it down to $610 right? Ok so $610-240=$370 in profit for the retailer. This doesnt include shipping costs, overhead, employee pay, state business taxes, internet fees, phone bills, insurance for the building and stock. When you factor all of those in, the retailers are probably pulling around $170 or so in pure profit at the end of the pipeline.
Does this sound lucrative to you? It's not. Its a niche market for 530i exhausts, be glad we have a good performing exhaust that is a real winner for under $1000.
/endrant
04-30-2010, 07:22 AM
#12
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My Ride: 2000 540i/6: Silver
Model Year: 2000
dude, not to be rude, but...its a twin turbo...what did you want to get for 2400? a full turbo back exhaust, thats two high flow cats, two mufflers, and piping and good welds for this setup that is bolt on and mounts perfectly?...you wont get that...imagine what you would pay for a single side turbo back...itll run you between 1200-1500 depending on your brand...now double it up, high performance cars or exotic setups dont make for a cheap modding frenzy....
to top it off...20wtq is no joke, and neither is a proven 10whp...those are all to the wheels...and if thats consistent...thats actually a good deal (depending on where you see it on the dyno graph, and how linear the adjusted line is)...then you can pick up some highflow cats and you're exhaust will be roaring...top it off with an intercooler and tune...
another thing to keep in mind with dyno numbers is you can't just look at numbers, add it all up together and say OH i should be at XXX whp...the whole car works as a system, driveability is probably more of a factor in most cases then numbers on a sheet of paper...over time if you tune a few more things, your car will work better as a system, so putting on good parts ( like this exhaust ) works to your benefit down the road...and if you're just going for sound, then maybe a performance exhaust isnt for you.
to top it off...20wtq is no joke, and neither is a proven 10whp...those are all to the wheels...and if thats consistent...thats actually a good deal (depending on where you see it on the dyno graph, and how linear the adjusted line is)...then you can pick up some highflow cats and you're exhaust will be roaring...top it off with an intercooler and tune...
another thing to keep in mind with dyno numbers is you can't just look at numbers, add it all up together and say OH i should be at XXX whp...the whole car works as a system, driveability is probably more of a factor in most cases then numbers on a sheet of paper...over time if you tune a few more things, your car will work better as a system, so putting on good parts ( like this exhaust ) works to your benefit down the road...and if you're just going for sound, then maybe a performance exhaust isnt for you.
04-30-2010, 07:29 AM
#13
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well, what other brands are you looking at?
what are looking for from an exhaust system? sound, performance, or both?
have you contacted RPI directly?
what are looking for from an exhaust system? sound, performance, or both?
have you contacted RPI directly?
04-30-2010, 07:30 AM
#14
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its just the end consumer generally has no idea what small companies have to pay to get a product out there. Cottage industries make up 80% of US business but consumers expect conglomerate prices from the "assembly line" producers.
Sorry but it can't work that way no matter how tight wad or how hopeful one might be that it could.
RPI has employees and expensive dynometers and software for product development. Where do people think the money from this came from? Thin air?
Also consider the fact that RPI probably has a big bank loan to keep a constant cash flow. Well these bank requirements change monthly and at any given time the bank can demand that RPI show more profits or have more equity in the business or they can pull the loan.
Even local banks are pulling this shit, its robbery and very unnerving for any business to have to go through it.
My fathers company (I worked for him) just went through this. He had to take out a home loan against his home THAT HE HAD PAID OFF so the bank would continue to give him a line of credit.
04-30-2010, 07:39 AM
#15
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My Ride: 2000 540i/6: Silver
Model Year: 2000
its just the end consumer generally has no idea what small companies have to pay to get a product out there. Cottage industries make up 80% of US business but consumers expect conglomerate prices from the "assembly line" producers.
Sorry but it can't work that way no matter how tight wad or how hopeful one might be that it could.
RPI has employees and expensive dynometers and software for product development. Where do people think the money from this came from? Thin air?
Also consider the fact that RPI probably has a big bank loan to keep a constant cash flow. Well these bank requirements change monthly and at any given time the bank can demand that RPI show more profits or have more equity in the business or they can pull the loan.
Even local banks are pulling this shit, its robbery and very unnerving for any business to have to go through it.
My fathers company (I worked for him) just went through this. He had to take out a home loan against his home THAT HE HAD PAID OFF so the bank would continue to give him a line of credit.
Sorry but it can't work that way no matter how tight wad or how hopeful one might be that it could.
RPI has employees and expensive dynometers and software for product development. Where do people think the money from this came from? Thin air?
Also consider the fact that RPI probably has a big bank loan to keep a constant cash flow. Well these bank requirements change monthly and at any given time the bank can demand that RPI show more profits or have more equity in the business or they can pull the loan.
Even local banks are pulling this shit, its robbery and very unnerving for any business to have to go through it.
My fathers company (I worked for him) just went through this. He had to take out a home loan against his home THAT HE HAD PAID OFF so the bank would continue to give him a line of credit.
ptl is 100% right, plus...like someone else said, its a niche market...its not like everyone drives a 535i so theres so much available...theres a few companies that make a good exhaust, thats it...i mean...i dont wanna wander to far from the conversation but...weren't you a little more concerned of the markup you paid when you bought the car? we pay in insane markup to drive these cars...its disturbing to know the cost of the car...but we pay for r&d ... (fill in the blank)...i mean...m5, 90000...really? thats the price of a house in omaha...but people still buy it, because theres a market for it...just something to think about...if you really think you're 535 is worth 50k+
04-30-2010, 07:40 AM
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youre not paying massive markup, have you ever manufactured anything? I have. Its grossly expensive at start up and doesnt really get any cheaper. They only people that truly benefit are the retailers because you can increase the MSRP but the production costs generally are the same unless you source the same supplies elswhere.
If the exhaust costs $800 at MSRP, retailers get less 60% off that. A good profit margin for RPI to sell it to retailers is if it holds a profit of 30-35%. So RPI has to sell the exhaust to retailers for $240 to get any return.
You say you were able to get it down to $610 right? Ok so $610-240=$370 in profit for the retailer. This doesnt include shipping costs, overhead, employee pay, state business taxes, internet fees, phone bills, insurance for the building and stock. When you factor all of those in, the retailers are probably pulling around $170 or so in pure profit at the end of the pipeline.
Does this sound lucrative to you? It's not. Its a niche market for 530i exhausts, be glad we have a good performing exhaust that is a real winner for under $1000.
/endrant
If the exhaust costs $800 at MSRP, retailers get less 60% off that. A good profit margin for RPI to sell it to retailers is if it holds a profit of 30-35%. So RPI has to sell the exhaust to retailers for $240 to get any return.
You say you were able to get it down to $610 right? Ok so $610-240=$370 in profit for the retailer. This doesnt include shipping costs, overhead, employee pay, state business taxes, internet fees, phone bills, insurance for the building and stock. When you factor all of those in, the retailers are probably pulling around $170 or so in pure profit at the end of the pipeline.
Does this sound lucrative to you? It's not. Its a niche market for 530i exhausts, be glad we have a good performing exhaust that is a real winner for under $1000.
/endrant
Well, since you put it that way, no, it doesn't sound lucrative at all. It sounds so bad I'd close my doors tomorrow.
04-30-2010, 07:43 AM
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My Ride: 2008 550I LOADED, all options except HUD and NV
Bottom Line?
Dinan exhaust for your car in $1500, for that you get 6 (yes really) HP and an AXLE back system, compared to RPI's cat-back system with a 10 WHP gain. Dinan makes good products, sure, but additional gains and a fuller system with RPI makes more sense
Borla, Remus, and Supersprint don't even make systems for the 535 (I checked)
Dinan exhaust for your car in $1500, for that you get 6 (yes really) HP and an AXLE back system, compared to RPI's cat-back system with a 10 WHP gain. Dinan makes good products, sure, but additional gains and a fuller system with RPI makes more sense
Borla, Remus, and Supersprint don't even make systems for the 535 (I checked)
04-30-2010, 07:43 AM
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Exactly, so how do you think RPI stays open?
The 525/530 exhausts arent their money makers, but rather the effect of trickle down production and technology, essentially they are m5 single sided mufflers.
The full exhausts are the money makers, hence the $2500 price tag, but even then do the math and RPI isn't walking away with giant tan bags with green dollar signs on them.
They have to produce different exhausts for different cars and they have to PROVE each one of their claims, which they do.
The only product that I can see bringing in larger % of profit are the scoops. Its pretty much a one design fits all with a few small variations.
04-30-2010, 07:46 AM
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My Ride: 2008 550I LOADED, all options except HUD and NV
What PTL means is: They are making enough to pay their bills and live as comfortably as you do. Do they make enough to retire in 2 years, of course not. If you want an exhaust cheaper than RPI's retail price wait a little while for a used one to come up for sale. It shouldn't be long now, as current E60 owners move up to the F10 you should start seeing more and more parts become available for our cars.
04-30-2010, 07:47 AM
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What PTL means is: They are making enough to pay their bills and live as comfortably as you do. Do they make enough to retire in 2 years, of course not. If you want an exhaust cheaper than RPI's retail price wait a little while for a used one to come up for sale. It shouldn't be long now, as current E60 owners move up to the F10 you should start seeing more and more parts become available for our cars.
what PTL means is : Fuck yo couch