grogan545

I finally found some speed freaks like myself.I bought a Passport GT2 timer earlier this year and have lots of info.I posted back in june or july but didn't generate much interest.all my data is at work,i'll bring it home next week and post it.it will be a verry long post.I did take my 545 to an NHRA sanctioned drag strip and verified that the GT2 timer is extremely accurate,the results that day sucked as the weather conditions were terrible,hot and very humid with very low barometer(right before a thunder storm).I only got one run before it rained and the GT2 timer info was almost exactly the same as drag strip.biggest difference was .04 seconds.I don't recall all info now but will post it next week.I remember my best 0-60 times,5.00,5.05,and 5.17 .best 1/8 mile was 8.75.same as you on my test road not enough room for 1/4 mile run.I know the 0-60 runs are hard to believe but I have complete faith in the GT2 timer.Iam an old drag racer and after many trial starting methods I was able to achieve these times.with DTC off I brake torque to 1200 RPM,release brake and ease to full throttle(instant full throttle results in much tire smoke).I start in M1 and shift manually but the trans shifts at redline regardless of my input.I will post all data on my street and strip runs next week.
[/quote]

after verifying the accuracy of the GT2 timer on my previous post I obtained the following data about mid may of this year.the GT2 was set up as described in my previous post.I also noted the direction i tested "n" for north,"s" for south because i suspect a slight grade on my test road.
no rollout 10" rollout
run# 1 2 3 4 5 6
direction N S S N N S
0-10 .65 .68 .33 .35 .33 .33
0-20 1.33 1.35 1.05 1.02 1.05 1.00
0-30 2.03 2.10 1.80 1.73 1.85 1.73
0-40 3.15 3.23 2.93 2.80 2.83 2.80
0-50 4.18 4.28 4.02 3.83 3.83 3.88
0-60 5.35 5.55 5.33 5.03 5.00 5.05
0-70 6.93 7.15 6.93 6.55 6.52 6.78
0-80 8.50 8.83 8.65 8.12 8.05 8.45
60' 2.35 2.38 2.05 2.02 2.05 2.00
330' 6.05 6.13 5.83 5.72 5.75 5.75
1/8 time 9.10 9.20 8.93 8.75 8.75 8.83
1/8 speed 82.0 80.6 80.0 82.1 82.6 80.6
1000' 11.33 11.53
note there is about .30 diff between the no rollout and 10" rollout.I did't log the weather conditions but the temp was between 55 and 65 for most of these runs,the speed was pretty consistant regardless of rollout

I finally found some speed freaks like myself.I bought a Passport GT2 timer earlier this year and have lots of info.I posted back in june or july but didn't generate much interest.all my data is at work,i'll bring it home next week and post it.it will be a verry long post.I did take my 545 to an NHRA sanctioned drag strip and verified that the GT2 timer is extremely accurate,the results that day sucked as the weather conditions were terrible,hot and very humid with very low barometer(right before a thunder storm).I only got one run before it rained and the GT2 timer info was almost exactly the same as drag strip.biggest difference was .04 seconds.I don't recall all info now but will post it next week.I remember my best 0-60 times,5.00,5.05,and 5.17 .best 1/8 mile was 8.75.same as you on my test road not enough room for 1/4 mile run.I know the 0-60 runs are hard to believe but I have complete faith in the GT2 timer.Iam an old drag racer and after many trial starting methods I was able to achieve these times.with DTC off I brake torque to 1200 RPM,release brake and ease to full throttle(instant full throttle results in much tire smoke).I start in M1 and shift manually but the trans shifts at redline regardless of my input.I will post all data on my street and strip runs next week.
[/quote]

after verifying the accuracy of the GT2 timer on my previous post I obtained the following data about mid may of this year.the GT2 was set up as described in my previous post.I also noted the direction i tested "n" for north,"s" for south because i suspect a slight grade on my test road.
no rollout 10" rollout
run# 1 2 3 4 5 6
direction N S S N N S
0-10 .65 .68 .33 .35 .33 .33
0-20 1.33 1.35 1.05 1.02 1.05 1.00
0-30 2.03 2.10 1.80 1.73 1.85 1.73
0-40 3.15 3.23 2.93 2.80 2.83 2.80
0-50 4.18 4.28 4.02 3.83 3.83 3.88
0-60 5.35 5.55 5.33 5.03 5.00 5.05
0-70 6.93 7.15 6.93 6.55 6.52 6.78
0-80 8.50 8.83 8.65 8.12 8.05 8.45
60' 2.35 2.38 2.05 2.02 2.05 2.00
330' 6.05 6.13 5.83 5.72 5.75 5.75
1/8 time 9.10 9.20 8.93 8.75 8.75 8.83
1/8 speed 82.0 80.6 80.0 82.1 82.6 80.6
1000' 11.33 11.53
note there is about .30 diff between the no rollout and 10" rollout.I did't log the weather conditions but the temp was between 55 and 65 for most of these runs,the speed was pretty consistant regardless of rollout
[/quote]
Help!! I just saw my post and that is not how I typed it.I had everything spead out in columns.As you can see i am only smi literate on the computer.sorry guys

znod

I finally found some speed freaks like myself.I bought a Passport GT2 timer earlier this year and have lots of info.I posted back in june or july but didn't generate much interest.all my data is at work,i'll bring it home next week and post it.it will be a verry long post.I did take my 545 to an NHRA sanctioned drag strip and verified that the GT2 timer is extremely accurate,the results that day sucked as the weather conditions were terrible,hot and very humid with very low barometer(right before a thunder storm).I only got one run before it rained and the GT2 timer info was almost exactly the same as drag strip.biggest difference was .04 seconds.I don't recall all info now but will post it next week.I remember my best 0-60 times,5.00,5.05,and 5.17 .best 1/8 mile was 8.75.same as you on my test road not enough room for 1/4 mile run.I know the 0-60 runs are hard to believe but I have complete faith in the GT2 timer.Iam an old drag racer and after many trial starting methods I was able to achieve these times.with DTC off I brake torque to 1200 RPM,release brake and ease to full throttle(instant full throttle results in much tire smoke).I start in M1 and shift manually but the trans shifts at redline regardless of my input.I will post all data on my street and strip runs next week.
[/quote]

after verifying the accuracy of the GT2 timer on my previous post I obtained the following data about mid may of this year.the GT2 was set up as described in my previous post.I also noted the direction i tested "n" for north,"s" for south because i suspect a slight grade on my test road.
no rollout 10" rollout
run# 1 2 3 4 5 6
direction N S S N N S
0-10 .65 .68 .33 .35 .33 .33
0-20 1.33 1.35 1.05 1.02 1.05 1.00
0-30 2.03 2.10 1.80 1.73 1.85 1.73
0-40 3.15 3.23 2.93 2.80 2.83 2.80
0-50 4.18 4.28 4.02 3.83 3.83 3.88
0-60 5.35 5.55 5.33 5.03 5.00 5.05
0-70 6.93 7.15 6.93 6.55 6.52 6.78
0-80 8.50 8.83 8.65 8.12 8.05 8.45
60' 2.35 2.38 2.05 2.02 2.05 2.00
330' 6.05 6.13 5.83 5.72 5.75 5.75
1/8 time 9.10 9.20 8.93 8.75 8.75 8.83
1/8 speed 82.0 80.6 80.0 82.1 82.6 80.6
1000' 11.33 11.53
note there is about .30 diff between the no rollout and 10" rollout.I did't log the weather conditions but the temp was between 55 and 65 for most of these runs,the speed was pretty consistant regardless of rollout

I finally found some speed freaks like myself.I bought a Passport GT2 timer earlier this year and have lots of info.I posted back in june or july but didn't generate much interest.all my data is at work,i'll bring it home next week and post it.it will be a verry long post.I did take my 545 to an NHRA sanctioned drag strip and verified that the GT2 timer is extremely accurate,the results that day sucked as the weather conditions were terrible,hot and very humid with very low barometer(right before a thunder storm).I only got one run before it rained and the GT2 timer info was almost exactly the same as drag strip.biggest difference was .04 seconds.I don't recall all info now but will post it next week.I remember my best 0-60 times,5.00,5.05,and 5.17 .best 1/8 mile was 8.75.same as you on my test road not enough room for 1/4 mile run.I know the 0-60 runs are hard to believe but I have complete faith in the GT2 timer.Iam an old drag racer and after many trial starting methods I was able to achieve these times.with DTC off I brake torque to 1200 RPM,release brake and ease to full throttle(instant full throttle results in much tire smoke).I start in M1 and shift manually but the trans shifts at redline regardless of my input.I will post all data on my street and strip runs next week.
[/quote]

after verifying the accuracy of the GT2 timer on my previous post I obtained the following data about mid may of this year.the GT2 was set up as described in my previous post.I also noted the direction i tested "n" for north,"s" for south because i suspect a slight grade on my test road.
no rollout 10" rollout
run# 1 2 3 4 5 6
direction N S S N N S
0-10 .65 .68 .33 .35 .33 .33
0-20 1.33 1.35 1.05 1.02 1.05 1.00
0-30 2.03 2.10 1.80 1.73 1.85 1.73
0-40 3.15 3.23 2.93 2.80 2.83 2.80
0-50 4.18 4.28 4.02 3.83 3.83 3.88
0-60 5.35 5.55 5.33 5.03 5.00 5.05
0-70 6.93 7.15 6.93 6.55 6.52 6.78
0-80 8.50 8.83 8.65 8.12 8.05 8.45
60' 2.35 2.38 2.05 2.02 2.05 2.00
330' 6.05 6.13 5.83 5.72 5.75 5.75
1/8 time 9.10 9.20 8.93 8.75 8.75 8.83
1/8 speed 82.0 80.6 80.0 82.1 82.6 80.6
1000' 11.33 11.53
note there is about .30 diff between the no rollout and 10" rollout.I did't log the weather conditions but the temp was between 55 and 65 for most of these runs,the speed was pretty consistant regardless of rollout
[/quote]
Help!! I just saw my post and that is not how I typed it.I had everything spead out in columns.As you can see i am only smi literate on the computer.sorry guys
[/quote]Thanks for posting your data grogan. Your data look a lot like mine--some of which have not been posted. The "table" is fine. It takes some doing to get columns to line up on-line. I never bother to do so. Your three best 0-60's are better than my best of 5.07. But, watch out. I just started using my new improved traction test site. I many try a run or so tomorrow. But, I won't be around for about 10 days starting Thursday. Oh, and I see what you mean about the .3 roll out.

grogan545

Hi cd:

I think your observation reflects fact since so few of us are above 60. In this regard, I seldomly read anything that is well supported, logical, objective, etc. There are exceptions, of course, but I won't name names. I don't think that the difference is simply experience (which is a function of age), although that probably has something to do with it. I think the difference is generational and reflects differences in the "goals" of communication, in general, and participation in discussions specifically. I enjoy the interaction with those of our generation especially. But, still, I also enjoy the interaction with those that are younger even though it is different. If I did not also enjoy the latter, then I would have a hard time hanging around. Merry Xmas cd.
[/quote]

I agree with you vnod.I like to read posts in the forum from everyone,but only get the urge to join in when I see MPH and acceleration times mentioned.I sort of get the feeling like I am 16 and just saw my first playboy issue.We old "geezers"are still able to get the most from our cars even if our bodies are not as capable as in the past.

znod

I agree with you vnod.I like to read posts in the forum from everyone,but only get the urge to join in when I see MPH and acceleration times mentioned.I sort of get the feeling like I am 16 and just saw my first playboy issue.We old "geezers"are still able to get the most from our cars even if our bodies are not as capable as in the past.
[/quote]I am right back in the era pictured below. Who's car is pictured? I know. His best times that day were 8.48 and 181.81 and 8.51 and 180.56 (a little uncertain about the .56). The second set satisfied the Drag News back-up requirements and, thus, the set contained the "world" records for a while.

grogan545

I agree with you vnod.I like to read posts in the forum from everyone,but only get the urge to join in when I see MPH and acceleration times mentioned.I sort of get the feeling like I am 16 and just saw my first playboy issue.We old "geezers"are still able to get the most from our cars even if our bodies are not as capable as in the past.
[/quote]I am right back in the era pictured below. Who's car is pictured? I know. His best times that day were 8.48 and 181.81 and 8.51 and 180.56 (a little uncertain about the .56). The second set satisfied the Drag News back-up requirements and, thus, the set contained the "world" records for a while.
[/quote]

I believe that would be Don Garlits and his "swamp rat".All the west coasters at that time did't believe his times until he went to california and proved it.I did notice in my last posting the 0-60 time for run #6 was incorrect,it should have been 5.17 instead of 5.05.also I noticed you have added some intake and exhaust modifications.I assume your times were with the modifications.Did you get some times before modifications?

znod

I agree with you vnod.I like to read posts in the forum from everyone,but only get the urge to join in when I see MPH and acceleration times mentioned.I sort of get the feeling like I am 16 and just saw my first playboy issue.We old "geezers"are still able to get the most from our cars even if our bodies are not as capable as in the past.
[/quote]I am right back in the era pictured below. Who's car is pictured? I know. His best times that day were 8.48 and 181.81 and 8.51 and 180.56 (a little uncertain about the .56). The second set satisfied the Drag News back-up requirements and, thus, the set contained the "world" records for a while.
[/quote]

I believe that would be Don Garlits and his "swamp rat".All the west coasters at that time did't believe his times until he went to california and proved it.I did notice in my last posting the 0-60 time for run #6 was incorrect,it should have been 5.17 instead of 5.05.also I noticed you have added some intake and exhaust modifications.I assume your times were with the modifications.Did you get some times before modifications?
[/quote]Yep, the Swamp Rat himself. And, what you say about the Californians is correct. I think they were expecially questionning his pre-GMC-supercharged times. As I recall, he claimed a best of 176 mph with only 8 carburetors. With respect to the pic, Garlits started his GMC days with 8 cabruretors on top, but changed by the time he got to Houston for his record runs. I was surprised to see the injectors rather than the carburetors. We say a lot of Eddie Hill (aluminum Pontiac dragster for a time), Bobby Langly of "The Scorpian" fame, and all those passing through. I have pics or slides of so many of those cars, but the Garlits pic is the only one I've every scanned.

All my times are after the Dinan throttle body and the B&B exhaust--which might make a small amout of difference. My biggest mod is my "weight-reduction program" (also done before my times)--including lighter wheels and tires. Did I refer you to the first "Mind Candy" link in my sig? This thread provides details on my weight-reduction program.

znod

Updated test results using my Passport GT2 are below. Post #8 contains the details of my GT2 setup.

The headings for the table below are:

Test Statistic 1st Test 2nd Test 3nd Test 4th Test

0-80 8.72 8.99 8.65 8.65
0-70 6.82 6.99 6.75 6.82
0-60 5.14 5.33 5.07 5.22
0-50 3.89 3.99 3.82 3.92
0-40 2.82 2.87 2.76 2.83
0-30 1.72 1.75 1.65 1.70
0-20 0.97 1.02 0.89 1.00
0-10 0.32 0.35 0.25 0.30
330 Feet 5.75 5.79 5.68 5.75
60 Feet 1.99 2.02 1.91 2.00
1/8 Mile Time 8.78 8.92 8.71 8.71
1/8 Mile Speed 80.40 79.50 80.50 80.50
HP @ Speed 333 @ 57 321 @ 54 333 @ 57 333 @ 57
HP @ Speed--Adjusted (see post #8) 340 @ 57 327 @ 54 57 340 @ 57 57 340 @ 57
Ave HP 282.00 273.00 282.00 283.00
Ave HP--Adjusted (see post #8) 287.00 278.00 287.00 289.00

HP @ Speed 340 @ 57 327 @ 54
Ave HP 287.00 278.00

Below is an update of my mod asssement from post #11.

Given the above HP values, the implication is that my modest mods have not made a substantial difference. In this regard, one of my very recent caluculations implies that my mods may have produced a FHP equivalent increase of:

28.2 = 17.2 (lighter wheels/tires) + 5 (Dinan throttle body) + 6 (B&B exhaust).

Conventionally, it is common to think of a 10 FHP equivalent increase on medium HP cars as translating into a .1 second improvement in the 1/4 mile time. So, we might equate my 28.2 value with about a .282 savings in 1/4 mile time. Now, the problem is how much of this .282 would be realized by 60 mph? Since the 545i Steptronic spends about 40% of its time getting to 60--i.e., approximately {[(5.2 + 5.4 + 5.5 (mag results)) / 3] / [(13.7 + 13.7 + 13.8) / 3]}, I am going to assume that .4 (.282) = .113 is realized by 60 mph. If true, then one would expect my average 0 to 60 run [(5.14 + 5.33 + 5.07 + 5.22) / 2 = 5.19] to be about .113 faster than (5.2 + 5.4 + 5.5) = 5.3667. Surprisingly, the difference in the two averages is somewhat close to .113--actually .176 = 5.3667 - 5.19.

The above calculations reasonably support the idea that my mods have made about a 28 (.113 /.4) to 44 (.176 / .4) FHP equivalent difference--which would imply 325 + 28 or 44 = 353 to 369 FHP equivalent for the Mind-Candy 545i. I emphasize that this whole discussion and my calculations must be taken with many grains of salt.

grogan545

I have read your post on weight reduction and agree with all your info and calculations.We always used the .1 and 1mph per 10hp rule when making changes.We also used .1 and 1mph per 100# weight reduction.

I am wondering why our GT2 times are so similar since you have made some mods & reduced weight.Possibly because I have more than 15000 miles and also the ambient temps were much higher for your tests.I did notice your 60' & 1/8 times are on average slightly faster but 1/8 speed is slightly slower than mine.
I see that you are big on theoretical calculations,so am I.I have developed a formula to predict 1/4 Mile ET from the GT2 1/8 mile times.You have to assume a speed at the end of the 1/4 mile but this isn't difficult since it has been published in many magazines(102 to 104).Below is an example.
1/8 time-8.75
1/8 speed 82.0
assume 1/4 speed of 103-82.0=21mph diff
assume the 60% of the diff will be the average speed over the last 1/8,.6x21=12.6
add 12.6 to 82.0=94.6mph average over the last 1/8
94.6mph=138.75 feet/sec
time to travel the last 1/8=660'/138.75=4.757 sec
add 4.757 to 8.75=13.507 ET for the 1/4 mile.
I know this is a lot of assuming but I used this formula on the 1 drag strip run I made and it was only .01 sec diff from actual(14.09 vs 14.10)
Varying the theoretical mph only changes the ET by .04sec per 1mph
Using this formula on your best posted run gives you a 13.497 ET.What do you think?

znod

I have read your post on weight reduction and agree with all your info and calculations.We always used the .1 and 1mph per 10hp rule when making changes.We also used .1 and 1mph per 100# weight reduction.

I am wondering why our GT2 times are so similar since you have made some mods & reduced weight.Possibly because I have more than 15000 miles and also the ambient temps were much higher for your tests.I did notice your 60' & 1/8 times are on average slightly faster but 1/8 speed is slightly slower than mine.
I see that you are big on theoretical calculations,so am I.I have developed a formula to predict 1/4 Mile ET from the GT2 1/8 mile times.You have to assume a speed at the end of the 1/4 mile but this isn't difficult since it has been published in many magazines(102 to 104).Below is an example.
1/8 time-8.75
1/8 speed 82.0
assume 1/4 speed of 103-82.0=21mph diff
assume the 60% of the diff will be the average speed over the last 1/8,.6x21=12.6
add 12.6 to 82.0=94.6mph average over the last 1/8
94.6mph=138.75 feet/sec
time to travel the last 1/8=660'/138.75=4.757 sec
add 4.757 to 8.75=13.507 ET for the 1/4 mile.
I know this is a lot of assuming but I used this formula on the 1 drag strip run I made and it was only .01 sec diff from actual(14.09 vs 14.10)
Varying the theoretical mph only changes the ET by .04sec per 1mph
Using this formula on your best posted run gives you a 13.497 ET.What do you think?
[/quote]
Hi Grogan:

I have been wondering about much of what you said. I have done some Excel graphs to focus more clearlhy on the issues. I can't provide detail now, but will do so at least when we return to the US. I will think about your formula and get back to you. Also, I had two 8.71's for the 1/8. As I recall, those are a little better than your best--8.75 maybe (check above please). In brief, what looks strange to me is that I am faster to 40 (or was it 50; you are faster to 60 (and 70 or 80); but I am faster in the 1/8 although your terminal velocity is higher. It looks to me like your 50 - 70 times are out of line with the rest of our data, but take this conclusion with a grain of salt because I have not finished with my graphing, etc. Happy New Year!!

grogan545

Hi Grogan:

I have been wondering about much of what you said. I have done some Excel graphs to focus more clearlhy on the issues. I can't provide detail now, but will do so at least when we return to the US. I will think about your formula and get back to you. Also, I had two 8.71's for the 1/8. As I recall, those are a little better than your best--8.75 maybe (check above please). In brief, what looks strange to me is that I am faster to 40 (or was it 50; you are faster to 60 (and 70 or 80); but I am faster in the 1/8 although your terminal velocity is higher. It looks to me like your 50 - 70 times are out of line with the rest of our data, but take this conclusion with a grain of salt because I have not finished with my graphing, etc. Happy New Year!!
[/quote]

Happy new year to you also znod.Hope you are vacationing and having a good time.I have some theories on our respective times.We will discuss at length when you get back.You are correct about your best 1/8 times being better than mine.I was speaking of speed at the end of the 1/8